N27RA crash

Is there a particular reason for an autopsy at Walter Reed in D.C. as opposed to a local medical examiner? If he was considered a civilian pilot and didn't have the same scrutiny for medical exams, why the trouble to fly the body to DC and exam him there?

reply to post by gariac


I see what your saying! No these bags are totally different that those ones. They look like your standard school backpack except there's no small pockets at all. Just the one big one with a zipper that connects to a metal hook clasp thing not even big enough for a padlock to fit through. So yeah they are quite different than what your refering to. I've tried to find a pic of them, but to no avail. There's no markings at all on the bag, except for the little locking tag with a number on it to show that it was opened. And after we opened them, we had to reseal the bag with another tag, annotate the number, count every f-ing page of every document opened in it, and turn it back into communications when were done flying. We just called them the secrets bag.

They have no markings because of them being classified secret. If we land at an airfield that cannot except a secrets bag (i.e. no command post), then we carry, eat, sleep, sh!t, whatever with that bag. It never leaves our back so to speak. It happened to me in Prestwick, Scotland one trip and we were there for three days. So for three days I had to carry it around. It sucked royally (no pun intended).

Also, along with all of our other gear, if we go on a trip to a PDM facility via commercial flight, we have a signed letter from the Secretary of the Air Force stating that TSA or any other agency without a need to know are NOT allowed to x-ray or open the bag under any circumstances. Only once did the letter not let me through the gate, and that was at Birmingham, AL, which point they called in a Communication Squadron Captian into the airport to inspect the bag for them.

But I see what your saying. They could be using that bag in your link now, as I got out in 2006. Guess what else was in the bag? A PCMIA card full of flight data to be used on our jet, which could have been used on any jet if you think about it. Sounds like terrorism to me!

Double post

reply to post by boomer135


Yeah, I remember a few of those coming through. We hated letting them go, and checked with the FAA about it, but once we had their ok, we always let them go through with no trouble. Luckily we didn't get too many of them.

reply to post by boomer135


I suppose on an aircraft, you don't have all the secure internet connections handy. So I can see why you need physical documents.

The DoD uses smartcards (CAC) and RFID, just like the civilians. Presumably the DoD smartcard uses a VPN on the public internet. I don't know about the smartcard on secure internet.

There is the Air Force Linux distribution if you have to (ack!) use a public PC. It is linux on a USB stick with a hook to use a usb smartcard.

Back in the day before wifi, I used to use to public internet at the Alamo library. It is in the same building the camo dudes use. I wish Air Force Linux existed back then, because sure the dudes are monitoring the public library terminals.

This is a pretty decent post on the WOMAP, though it didn't generate much interest. The Wired link goes into other bypass schemes.

womap and other TSA bypass methods

CAC

Air Force Linux

Perhaps not every CAC has a RFID. I see the RFID solicitations go out over fbo.gov. I know Nellis has them.

reply to post by STANDARD


Usually the autopsy is performed by the local base nearest where the crash occurred, I can't think of why they would fly him to Walter Reed to perform it. That is just another thing that doesn't really make sense.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Is every base set up for a coroner? I know bases that are destinations for war dead have a mortuary. Travis and Dover.

reply to post by gariac


Travis and Dover are set up to receive remains from overseas primarily. Every base I can think of has a coroner, or an agreement with a local coroner. It would create a huge backlog at Travis and Dover if they had to send all remains to them, even from the US bases.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Well using a local coroner's office I could believe. I just can't see that much demand for a coroner at every base.

Googling Nellis coroner just brings a pile of bad hits.

I sent off my FOIA for the crash info and made it a point to get ATC transcripts. USAF testimony can be held from the public, but not ATC transcripts of over the air transmissions. If those are withheld, I'm going to do a Spock raised eyebrow big time. Up to this point, I think we are dealing with bad reporting and innuendos.

I have to say I never was too pleased with the lame excuses about two hours to find the crashed aircraft. I'm sure Bald Mountain can see the TTR.

I also don't see VFR being an excuse. While VFR in civilian airspace without flight following can be done, I simply don't believe you can fly over the NTTR without flight following.

Flying direct from Groom Lake over the NTTR means crossing Site-4. While the place is full of foreign radar, I would expect the facility to have some general purpose radar as well, just for operations. But it may not be staffed. The times I have camped out by the TTR, the Site-4 lights were always flashing. It looked manned, but who knows. Even the TPECR seems to have activity at strange hours, based on observations from camping out at Stonewall Mountain. You can see vehicles going up and down the hill all night long.

reply to post by gariac


They don't have a huge mortuary, but all bases have at least a limited mortuary. With the small number of casualties that occur every year, they don't need a huge mortuary, but they want at least a limited ability to perform autopsies and tests at their own base. That way they can also have the remains prepared for burial for the families quickly and not have to wait while they're flown all over the US.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Is there a passenger manifest list?
Or profiles of the names of the people who where on the Beechcraft?
It did not state any names on the unclassified Executive report.

reply to post by zysin5


Killed in the crash were pilot David D. Palay, and passengers Derrick L. Butler, Michael A. Izold, Daniel M. Smalley, and Roy A. Van Voorhis.

I don't know what it is, but the name Michael Izold makes the back of my neck itch, like I know it from somewhere but can't quite place it.

Originally posted by ANNED
Its common for truck drivers to cheat on blood pressure by taking nitroglycerin tabs just before there physical.
they are easy to get and very common.

Does the FAA approved doctors check for nitroglycerin in the labs.

I asked my son (commercial pilot) if any blood work is done in the FAA flight physical. He said: "No."

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


According to FAA regulations, for a Class II certificate, blood work must be done within 90 days of the physical. It's not done for the physical itself, but it has to be done and be recent, prior to the physical

There are a battery of other tests that would show up high blood pressure, or heart problems for a Class II certificate.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Izold and Palay were not immediately named in the crash. Is it possible their names were withheld due to their importance and protocols for the base? I find it impossible they would not know whom exactly was on that flight.

reply to post by Zaphod58


My son has had both Class I and II physicals and NEVER ONCE had blood work done. Of course, military physicals are a different story. He has been a commercial pilot for 9 years. Just trying to help you figure this out. You referred to the pilot as "Mr." so I take it that he is non-military.

Since you doubt me:

www.leftseat.com...

The routine FAA medical examination does not test for alcohol use and it does not include a blood test.

So it is quite possible the pilot fooled the test with nitroglycerin to keep his license.

Don't let me spoil your fun with a little reality.

Good luck figuring out what happened My son read the opening post and said "You can't land the plane if you are dead."

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Good luck figuring out what happened My son read the opening post and said "You can't land the plane if you are dead."

My friend Jim Gross had a massive aortic aneurysm and died in mid air while trying to come in for a landing, he slumped over the controls at some point and managed to land after dying quite well, thank you.

Of course, his plane wasn't in one piece after.

reply to post by Bedlam


I am sorry to hear you lost your friend so tragically.
Hope no one else was involved.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


And I didn't say that the blood work was done as part of the physical. I said it had to be done within 90 days.

From the FAA:

Most pilots get the majority of their required work up from a cardiologist or internist. This physician may or may not be your AME (it usually is not). Regardless of who orders, performs or interprets the test, the work up must ultimately be routed to the FAA through an AME. (Find an AME). The FAA requires that a pilot's current cardiovascular evaluation must include the following:

An assessment of personal and family medical history
Clinical cardiac and general physical examination
An assessment and statement regarding the applicant’s medications, functional capacity, modifiable cardiovascular risk factors
Motivation for any necessary change
Prognosis for incapacitation
Blood chemistries (fasting blood sugar, current blood lipid profile to include total cholesterol, HDL, LDL, and triglycerides) performed within the last 90 days

flightphysical.com...

Gee, so sorry to let reality interfere with your stopping my fun.

Deny ignorance even if it means someone is telling the truth, friend.

www.faa.gov...

A cardiac evaluation may be needed to determine the applicant's qualifications. Temporary stresses or fever may, at times, result in abnormal results from these tests. If the Examiner believes this to be the case, the applicant should be given a few days to recover and then be retested. If this is not possible, the Examiner should defer issuance, pending further evaluation.

(page 75)

Notice the word "may."

My son has had no blood work done for his exam, not ever. Tired of repeating facts so, adios.