Charlie Veitch - The 9/11 conspiracy theorist who changed his mind

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by RomeByFire
ArmChair University.

With a pinch of "Position of Authority" logical fallacies.

That guy is an engineer and so am I.

I said so, therefore, it's true. Matter of fact I'm the smartest engineer in the world.

I said that so it has to be true (no one would ever lie on the Internet).

You know that when you lie to try and promote a point, that it doesn't add to your credibility right? It's clear nobody can trust what you post because you're willing to post falsehoods in order to try and ruin someone elses credibility.

If this were done the other way around you'd call it criminal.

someone needs to take a logic/philosophy class (i don't intend this to be derogatory, you would honestly benefit as a human being from one). many greats used the method of stating opposing views as their own to demonstrate that they were ludicrous.

what he did was establish logical proofs to demonstrate that being an engineer, or claiming to be one, doesn't make an opinion any more valid.

einstein was a frickin patent clerk, so we should toss out all his theories because they're wrong. is this statement accurate? no.

as for being "deceptive" he clearly explained that his statements WEREN'T true, and were being used as examples.

I am not challenging anyone's opinion on their understanding of engineering specifications of building collapses. I have no expertise in this area and rely on the information of others, if and when, I see it as applicable. That is the core issue-In the grand scheme of things it just has no bearing on the implicit events.

If you can make a scientific argument that WTC 7 fell as if it were imploded, then make that argument and back it up with data. However, still, this has no bearing at all on the attack on America.

With it's humble beginnings in Manila in 1996, during preparations for the Bojinka Operation, this plot can be followed step by step, each step advanced meticulously and it's infallibility preserved by statements by the ones who participated in it. That in jurisprudence, is known as 'beyond any reasonable doubt and a moral certainty' and just because some iron beams fell in an unnatural manner or collapsed inward or outward, fails to reflect from the facts in this case.

How can I be any clearer on that?

Originally posted by spooky24
I am not challenging anyone's opinion on their understanding of engineering specifications of building collapses. I have no expertise in this area and rely on the information of others, if and when, I see it as applicable. That is the core issue-In the grand scheme of things it just has no bearing on the implicit events.

If you can make a scientific argument that WTC 7 fell as if it were imploded, then make that argument and back it up with data. However, still, this has no bearing at all on the attack on America.

With it's humble beginnings in Manila in 1996, during preparations for the Bojinka Operation, this plot can be followed step by step, each step advanced meticulously and it's infallibility preserved by statements by the ones who participated in it. That in jurisprudence, is known as 'beyond any reasonable doubt and a moral certainty' and just because some iron beams fell in an unnatural manner or collapsed inward or outward, fails to reflect from the facts in this case.


How can I be any clearer on that?

Can you provide links or proof to each step you speak of? I'd like those meticulous statements to judge for myself. Not seeing anything in the above statement that backs up your beyond reasonable doubt. I find it interesting that you think your words have more proof of anything than anyone elses here. Also Iron beams falling in a certain way, should have some Bearing, haha, on the entire theory.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Do you really believe that the passports of the hijackers would survive the fireball that was hot enough to bring down the buildings and just so happen to be found hours later in the rubble to be broadcast to the world?

Please, I want an honest answer on this.

The passport surviving the fireball is easy to explain. It was out the other side of the building before the fireball occurred.

A Boeing 767 has 19500 cu/ft of air inside it's cabin. Air has mass. Moving mass has inertia. After impact the air continued moving forward and out the other side of the building. It carried the passport with it. At the speed the air was traveling it would take less than 1/4 of a second to transverse the building. The fireball erupted at about 1/4 of a second after impact.

Originally posted by SomeoneWatching
This photo was taken after the collapse of the three buildings.

imgur.com...

The unmarked building near WTC 1 was hit by debris. Look at the size of the hole in the middle of the building. That is extensive damage. That building had to be taken down. It did not collapse.

www.greatbuildings.com...

I'll change my mind when the evidence contradicts my theory...

Take any piece of concrete or steel, hold it up, then let it go.

What direction does it go ?

Answer ..... DOWN

So how come lots of concrete and steel decided to go sideways, and not just a little bit sideways, far enough to cross over a street and fall on top of a very high building.

Only something like an explosion could propel heavy items that far.

That's if concrete and steel was propelled as we are told and the pictures aren't shopped.

Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Do you really believe that the passports of the hijackers would survive the fireball that was hot enough to bring down the buildings and just so happen to be found hours later in the rubble to be broadcast to the world?

Please, I want an honest answer on this.

The passport surviving the fireball is easy to explain. It was out the other side of the building before the fireball occurred.
A Boeing 767 has 19500 cu/ft of air inside it's cabin. Air has mass. Moving mass has inertia. After impact the air continued moving forward and out the other side of the building. It carried the passport with it. At the speed the air was traveling it would take less than 1/4 of a second to transverse the building. The fireball erupted at about 1/4 of a second after impact.

Here is how the passport was found.
www.9-11commission.gov...

The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly afterwards. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11.

The video even admits they merely think themselves more rational than people who don't buy the official story.

You have to admit even the way the passport was submitted to police sounds absolutely insane. A plane just flew into a building and some mystery man in a business suit is searching through its debris and turning in his results before building 2 collapses.

Think real hard about this.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli

Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Do you really believe that the passports of the hijackers would survive the fireball that was hot enough to bring down the buildings and just so happen to be found hours later in the rubble to be broadcast to the world?

Please, I want an honest answer on this.

The passport surviving the fireball is easy to explain. It was out the other side of the building before the fireball occurred.
A Boeing 767 has 19500 cu/ft of air inside it's cabin. Air has mass. Moving mass has inertia. After impact the air continued moving forward and out the other side of the building. It carried the passport with it. At the speed the air was traveling it would take less than 1/4 of a second to transverse the building. The fireball erupted at about 1/4 of a second after impact.

Here is how the passport was found.
www.9-11commission.gov...

The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly afterwards. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11.

The video even admits they merely think themselves more rational than people who don't buy the official story.

You have to admit even the way the passport was submitted to police sounds absolutely insane. A plane just flew into a building and some mystery man in a business suit is searching through its debris and turning in his results before building 2 collapses.

Think real hard about this.

The name of the man who found the passport is Richard Wozniak this is what he looks like:

I was now standing in what seemed to be a war zone. There were scattered police and firefighters all around the streets. It seemed that I was one of only a handful of civilians so I had to pass myself off as a security agent as I was determined to stay and help. I was now outside the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty St.) building approximately 100 ft. or so away from the entrance of the main tower. I could hear objects hitting the ground around me so I decided to work my way around the back of the building and now I had learned what had happened.

I was standing in the middle of what were the remains of a passenger aircraft. There were seats and engine parts smashed through car windows everywhere. What seemed to be an engine was embedded into the sidewalk and body parts were strewn all over the street. Then I looked down to my feet and picked up a passport. It was a Saudi passport. It was green with Arabic writing and as I opened it and saw the man’s face inside it and I felt as if I were looking into the eyes of someone that may have been part of the terror that I was witnessing around me and I later learned that I was right as I passed it off to an FBI agent that was standing a block away on West side Hwy who immediately took it from me. He then instructed me to leave the area but before he could notice I ran back to the side of the Bankers Trust building determined to help find survivors that may have been hurt in the streets or in the cars. Then my life was changed forever.

His email address is included if you would like to contact him,


www.bereanbeacon.org...

I found this photo in the NIST archives. The photo was taken by Chris Sorensen at 8:56 am near the corner of Albany and Greenwich st. Albany is the street behind the Bankers Trust Building where Richard said he found the passport. As you can see he didn't have to do much "searching through the debris" to find it.



Goto this page and click continue.
wtcdata.nist.gov...

then come back and click this link to view the photo

wtcdata.nist.gov...

reply to post by waypastvne


You realize there was several stories of office debris scattered throughout the area from the impact as well as the whatever made it out of the plane. Low and behold the passport was lying there at his feet and he had to pretend to be security/operation personnel to get access to an agent to submit this piece of evidence.

Would you mind linking me to a history of the man's professional career?

I am merely pointing out the incredibly outrageous odds of this.

Not to mention that the NIST report still claims the original names produced by the regime are the hijackers despite several of those people still being alive and claiming stolen identities.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli

You realize there was several stories of office debris scattered throughout the area from the impact as well as the whatever made it out of the plane. Low and behold the passport was lying there at his feet and he had to pretend to be security/operation personnel to get access to an agent to submit this piece of evidence.

Would you mind linking me to a history of the man's professional career?

Richard Wozniak was and still is working for American International Group, Inc. located on 175 Water st. NYC.

His email address is at the end of the link, if you have any questions you should contact him.

www.bereanbeacon.org...

I am merely pointing out the incredibly outrageous odds of this.

And I am merely pointing out to you that, not only is the survival and discovery of the passport possible, it is probable.

Not to mention that the NIST report still claims the original names produced by the regime are the hijackers despite several of those people still being alive and claiming stolen identities.

On Sept 27 2001 the FBI released the identities of the 19 hijackers. Can you find me any evidence of the hijackers being alive dated after Sept 27 2001 ? Let me save you the trouble, No You Cant.


The hijackers are dead.


They're not only merely dead, they're really most sincerely dead

Charlie Veitch is a total fraud.

You only have to watch is old videos to see his change of heart does not fit with his ideals.

If you watch the 9/11 program he participated in, you'll see how he changed during that program, and it's all very bizarre. Nice try Charlie, but your behaviour is very obvious.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli

You realize there was several stories of office debris scattered throughout the area from the impact as well as the whatever made it out of the plane. Low and behold the passport was lying there at his feet and he had to pretend to be security/operation personnel to get access to an agent to submit this piece of evidence.

Would you mind linking me to a history of the man's professional career?

Richard Wozniak was and still is working for American International Group, Inc. located on 175 Water st. NYC.
His email address is at the end of the link, if you have any questions you should contact him.
www.bereanbeacon.org...

I am merely pointing out the incredibly outrageous odds of this.

And I am merely pointing out to you that, not only is the survival and discovery of the passport possible, it is probable.

Not to mention that the NIST report still claims the original names produced by the regime are the hijackers despite several of those people still being alive and claiming stolen identities.

On Sept 27 2001 the FBI released the identities of the 19 hijackers. Can you find me any evidence of the hijackers being alive dated after Sept 27 2001 ? Let me save you the trouble, No You Cant.
The hijackers are dead.
They're not only merely dead, they're really most sincerely dead

Thank you for the link to the info on Wozniak.

You are right, I cannot prove that even one of the hijackers is alive and well but the BBC can.

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
news.bbc.co.uk...

Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

. . . .

What do you have to say about this?

reply to post by waypastvne


FYI the list was released on September 14 2001 not the 27th, but since you asked for an article after the 27th of September 2001 here you are;

The article also points out that links to Osama Bin Laden are tenuous at best.

The investigation and the evidence
news.bbc.co.uk...

On 14 September, the FBI released the names of the 19 hijackers it believes carried out the attacks. There is some doubt about four of the people named as some of the hijackers may have been travelling on false documents.

Several of those arrested are reported to have had connections to the hijackers or Osama Bin Laden, and some may have been planning other hijackings.

This is a murky area in which unattributed briefings and misinformation must be taken into account.

. . .

There is no direct evidence in the public domain linking Osama Bin Laden to the 11 September attacks.

At best the evidence is circumstantial.

. . .

When asserting that Bin Laden is behind the attacks, US and UK officials lean heavily on what they believe to be Bin Laden's record and his connection to other terrorist attacks.

They are in effect arguing that the attacks are part of a clearly discernable pattern linked to previous attacks - notably the bombings of the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000, and two US embassies in East Africa in August 1998.

Funny the US regime's argument for Osama being guilty is essentially the same as the conspiracy theorists' of identifying a pattern of association with terrorist activities.

As I cited earlier the Bush family has strong connections to the CIA and drug running and if one were to use the regime's logic they are still at it as evidenced by the massive amount of opium coming out of Afghanistan now.



PS: Let me repeat
The article still calls into question the validity of the hijacker list released by the US govt after 9-11 and was posted well after the 27th of September.

Bin Laden is on public record admitting that he planned and directed the attacks.

In November 2001, US forces recovered a videotape from a bombed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan which showed a man purported to be Osama bin Laden talking to Khaled al-Harbi. In the tape, bin Laden talks of planning the attacks. Translations from the tape include the following lines:

...we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all...

We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on...Muhammad (Atta) from the Egyptian family (meaning the al-Qaeda Egyptian group), was in charge of the group...

The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes.

(Source).

On October 29, 2004, at 21:00 UTC, al Jazeera broadcast excerpts from a videotape of Osama bin Laden addressing the people of the United States (in which he accepts responsibility for the September 11 attacks) condemns the Bush government's response to those attacks and presents those attacks as part of a campaign of revenge and deterrence motivated by his witnessing of the destruction in the Lebanese Civil War in 1982.

(Source).

Originally posted by bigyin
Take any piece of concrete or steel, hold it up, then let it go.

What direction does it go ?

Answer ..... DOWN

So how come lots of concrete and steel decided to go sideways, and not just a little bit sideways, far enough to cross over a street and fall on top of a very high building.

Only something like an explosion could propel heavy items that far.

No. All you need is a blast of air. This can be caused by sudden compression, as in the collapse of a large building.

That's if concrete and steel was propelled as we are told and the pictures aren't shopped.

There is clear video footage of debris flying off the towers and hitting nearby buildings.

Originally posted by Sankari
Bin Laden is on public record admitting that he planned and directed the attacks.

In November 2001, US forces recovered a videotape from a bombed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan which showed a man purported to be Osama bin Laden talking to Khaled al-Harbi. In the tape, bin Laden talks of planning the attacks. Translations from the tape include the following lines:

...we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all...

We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on...Muhammad (Atta) from the Egyptian family (meaning the al-Qaeda Egyptian group), was in charge of the group...

The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes.

(Source).

On October 29, 2004, at 21:00 UTC, al Jazeera broadcast excerpts from a videotape of Osama bin Laden addressing the people of the United States (in which he accepts responsibility for the September 11 attacks) condemns the Bush government's response to those attacks and presents those attacks as part of a campaign of revenge and deterrence motivated by his witnessing of the destruction in the Lebanese Civil War in 1982.

(Source).

A man purported to be Osama Bin Laden.

Judging by their track record and how many times Osama Bin Laden has been killed or died of natural causes I find anything they say hard to believe.

Since you are still around, what is your opinion on the hijacker list distributed by the regime?

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
A man purported to be Osama Bin Laden.

No. The actual Bin Ladan in one of his own videos. If you believe it is not Bin Laden, please prove this.

Judging by their track record and how many times Osama Bin Laden has been killed or died of natural causes I find anything they say hard to believe.

Who's 'they'? Are 'they' the same people who have previously made erroneous reports about Bin Laden's alleged death?

Since you are still around, what is your opinion on the hijacker list distributed by the regime?

On September 23, 2001 BBC News reported that al-Shehri was "alive and well" in Casablanca, Morocco, and was talking to multiple media organizations however, due to confusion over the man's identity, and editorial concerns over conspiracy theories, BBC News later modified the September 23 report by inserting "A man called ... "

BBC News considers the September 23 report superseded by an October 5, 2001 report that lists Waleed as one of the alleged hijackers believed by the FBI to be responsible for the September 11 attacks.

Waleed and Wail were both reported to have been initially found, in error, by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India.

On September 16, 2001, the diplomat Ahmed Alshehri denied that he was the father of the two hijackers. Wail claims he did attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida — but was the victim of mistaken identity, since he used that training to secure his current position with a Moroccan airline company. Saudi Arabia has confirmed his story, and suggested he was the victim of identity theft.

Muhammad Ali al-Shehri, the Shehri brothers' true father, was identified prior to September 17, 2001, and told Arab News that he had not heard from his sons in ten months prior to September 2001.

An ABC News story in March 2002 repeated this, and during a report entitled "A Saudi Apology" for Dateline NBC on August 25, 2002, NBC reporter John Hockenberry traveled to 'Asir, where he interviewed the third brother, Salah, who agreed that his two brothers were dead and claimed they had been "brainwashed".

Furthermore another article explains that the pilot who lives in Casablanca was named Walid al-Shri (not Waleed M. al-Shehri) and that much of the BBC information regarding "alive" hijackers was incorrect according to the same sources used by BBC.

In September 2007, a video recording of his last testament was released to mark the 6th anniversary of the attacks.

(Source).

reply to post by Sankari


First of all the man in Casablanca was indeed the one listed as the suspect and he did in fact train at the facility. The man confirmed that it was his name and picture and that is why he was filing suit to proclaim his innocence. Following this a capital M was added to the name and again pushed as the name of the hijacker yet the image supplied was still the same.

Second, can YOU prove that was Osama Bin Laden in any fashion other than the US regime claimed that it was he?

EDIT
From the article I linked to earlier to verify for you that the suspect Al Sheri was indeed listed as a terrorist and his photo was posted as a hijacker.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Hijacking suspects
Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi
Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami
Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour
Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

news.bbc.co.uk...

What do you have to say about that?

reply to post by Sankari


Hmm, well you can believe what you like of course, but youtube has thousands of examples of buildings collapsing from controlled demolitions.

Good compilation here

In every single one there is not a single large piece of material ejected sideways, and in every one of these examples there are explosives used and still there is no lateral movement.

So what you are proposing is that air can move heavy objects better than explosives.

In some of the examples shown there are some small pieces that fly off but these are blown off by the explosives and even then the pieces are small and they don't go very far.

At wtc massive sections traveled sideways hundreds of yards. Air can't do that.

If you are really interested in the timeline of these events you can start with chapter 12 of former FBI Agent Ali Soufan's book "The Black Banners" beginning with "What is al Qeda doing in Malaysia" ending with chapter 16 "The Father of Death"

Lawrence Wright's work "The Looming Towers" coincides with Soufan book in chapters 18-21 ending with the same interrogation of plotter Abu Jandal's confessions and identification of the hijackers whom he trained and lived with in Afghanistan.

British Writers Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan's work "The Eleventh Day" although a blame it all on Bush narrative, has perhaps the best sequence of events, backed up by the best research. Beginning with chapter 19 'Plotters' ending with chapter 27 'Perpetrators'. These 161 pages were the result of 4 1/2 years of research including over 120,000 Archive documents that they were granted access too, then reclassified.

Although the CIA redacted the majority of Soufan's ending narrative forensic redaction science has reproduced most of the links involving the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound, Waziristan Haveli. I am experienced enough to know better than to form a public opinion on the complacently of the Saudi Kingdom in any of these events.

Copyright infringement laws prevent me from reproducing these exact pages so, if you really want to know, it's all available to read for yourself. The key word being 'read' you are not going to find any of this in a video posted on the internet.

In a related statement I made no person on Earth has done more to be dismissive and then destructive to the evidence in 9/11 than President Obama-and simultaneously burying the so called 'truther' movement in the process. Perhaps, someday he will write somethings about it, although I doubt it. The whole issue of the Kingdom, and their involvement, now without a doubt have found their way to the FBI incinerators. There will be no 'Pentagon Papers' this time. I would like to think he did this out of a spirit of nationalism rather than any personal political need.

For all practical purposes the investigation into 9/11 is over.

reply to post by spooky24


the investigation may be over. but to me it means, that we the public have been lied to. it isn't paranoia, it's the laws of physics, and other simpler signs of a conspiracy, that you can't put a political spin on. and people wonder why there is such a mistrust of government?....that answer comes directly from homer simpson...DUH