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Built to Break, a world constructed on unregulated capitalism.

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posted on May, 29 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 





It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That's the friggin point.

There used to be a time when companies DID take personal responsibility for pumping out the best product they possibly could for their customers, and backed up their products throughout the entire life of said product... and advertised it as such.

There was no need for customers to read through six thousand consumer reports in order to determine whether or not a company's product had longevity and/or quality.

Those days are long gone and you've fallen into the planned obsolescence/throwaway consumer mentality hook, line, and sinker.




posted on May, 29 2013 @ 12:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by CranialSponge
reply to post by Hopechest
 





It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That's the friggin point.

There used to be a time when companies DID take personal responsibility for pumping out the best product they possibly could for their customers, and backed up their products throughout the entire life of said product... and advertised it as such.

There was no need for customers to read through six thousand consumer reports in order to determine whether or not a company's product had longevity and/or quality.

Those days are long gone and you've fallen into the planned obsolescence/throwaway consumer mentality hook, line, and sinker.


Well that is completely false.

You are viewing history through rose colored glasses.

There is a very long history of companies putting out subpar products to make a profit. Simply research canned meat products that companies were selling to the military for our soldiers in WWI.

So many examples of stuff like this in history and today is no different.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


MAYTAG HISTORY
The Age of the Maytag washers was around 1900 - 1960s then the Greed to time ratio increases based on population, with of course the divide of family morals. So what happened? People seeing that they can A; get away with it, and B: make a profit off it.


I'm pretty sure they made a finite amount of the Olden days Maytag washers. Meaning we cannot go out and find a old one that works the same as the old ones did. Not to mention, you ever watch pawn stars or that picking show, old things are nearly more costly than the newer things making them not as helpful to many as it would of been to just of kept the one you had that was a ugly teal color with the chip.

It's the problem of the world honestly, since most of what is here is adopted elsewhere product wise. So after your solution of old maytag washers runs out, what old washers can we use then? Then we are forced to buy the new less efficient washers that break after a certain amount of time.
edit on 29-5-2013 by Tranceopticalinclined because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest
 


I'm pretty sure they made a finite amount of the Olden days Maytag washers. Meaning we cannot go out and find a old one that works the same as the old ones did. Not to mention, you ever watch pawn stars or that picking show, old things are nearly more costly than the newer things making them not as helpful to many as it would of been to just of kept the one you had that was a ugly teal color with the chip.

It's the problem of the world honestly, since most of what is here is adopted elsewhere product wise. So after your solution of old maytag washers runs out, what old washers can we use then? Then we are forced to buy the new less efficient washers that break after a certain amount of time.


I understand your point but I think you are failing to grasp a certain concept. Products today are meant to do more, be faster, and improve efficiency.

As such, they require more parts and are more complicated. When that happens the odds of something breaking down increases.

Its not that companies are making worse products, its that they are simply more complicated and have more parts.

As we talked about earlier, if you buy a Craftsman wrench, it will still last you a lifetime. Its not a complicated thing like say a washer/dryer or automobile.

If you want that simpler version than you can find it somewhere.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Hopechest
 


I see what you are saying as well, I really do, innovation should do such, but not at thee cost of function and durability. find me a good ice cream maker, I'm serious, find me one that the reviews do not talk about something breaking off...

( when I Had a old Wooden one that just got moldy that was reinforced with steel and that worked for years, still would if was sanitary. )

Let's do the next one for Printers.
( I have gone through about 10 printers since my old fashion one with the holes I had to pull off when the pages were done, but that printed Banners, posters, pictures, text, and not too shabby nor did it really ever break, the paper feeder was a bit hard but it barely ran out of ink using that ink ribbon .
edit on 29-5-2013 by Tranceopticalinclined because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by Mountainmeg
 


Yes but you can still buy that old Maytag washer somewhere which will make this problem irrelevant.

If you want a shiny new one you have to accept that it may not last as long. Nobody is forcing you to buy these new cheaply made products are they?

You have options available.


ARE YOU FRICKIN' KIDDING ME? Or are you a troll just trying to up everyone's blood pressure. You said to give you one example of a product that isn't made "like it used to be". I did. The OP specified "In today's world". TODAY. Not 30 years ago. Products made TODAY.

Looking back, I would have been smart to pull the washer/dryer out of grandma's house when it sold. Being a newlywed, I relied on the verified, observed history of the brand and model of washers I had seen since I was a kid. The same brand, the same type or washer is not made well TODAY. And it wasn't a "cheap buy" either, I was paying for what, until the 1990's, had been a quality made brand.

Good luck trying to find a 30 year old appliance. Most of them are probably working away in some octogenarian's house since the darn things were built to last.

Aye mi Dios you're dense or a troublemaker, can't quite decide.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by SuicideBankers

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest
 


Most wrenches are solid state items, casting would be the main issue I'd worry about, stanely makes a good wrench too.

Most items we buy are not made from solid state construction, nor are they as durable as even the cheapest made wrench you can find. Seems this Thread is being derailed for some reason, and cannot have an honest conversation as to why more cheaply made items are being allowed to be sold, yes people need to be able to sell their wares, but wares worth selling would be a main focus I'd hope.

Funny you say wrench, since I can mention something about tools and time.
For a while when I was younger, you'd buy a toolset and it would come in a metal sturdy box, now you buy a toolset most of the metal boxes are considered " High End " while the regular joe's toolset comes inside a plastic snapshut. Why the change, to cut on costs, but the price didn't drop, the quality did.


Cheaper items are sold to appeal to the market that can't afford the higher quality items. Yes they break but its because...well...they are made cheaply.

Pointing out logic is not derailing your thread.


Then lets discuss producing quality items for everyone. Would that be possible? Is quality something that only the rich are entitled to? One good example is throw away cars. Most recommend trading your car in every 2 years. There was a time when a car lasted several generations handed down from parents to children to their children.


It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That would be an advertisement I would love to see!

"Hey folks we don't make a great product in fact its going to break a month after you get it home but hey its cheap!"

Corporations don't advertise that way. That leaves us with them lying about their product and passing it off as something worthwhile. Back in the day quality went hand in hand with affordability. Anyone could buy a well made product at an affordable price. Welcome to the disposable society where everything is cheap and nothing is made to last. Well at least for those of us who are not privileged



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mountainmeg

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by Mountainmeg
 


Yes but you can still buy that old Maytag washer somewhere which will make this problem irrelevant.

If you want a shiny new one you have to accept that it may not last as long. Nobody is forcing you to buy these new cheaply made products are they?

You have options available.


ARE YOU FRICKIN' KIDDING ME? Or are you a troll just trying to up everyone's blood pressure. You said to give you one example of a product that isn't made "like it used to be". I did. The OP specified "In today's world". TODAY. Not 30 years ago. Products made TODAY.

Looking back, I would have been smart to pull the washer/dryer out of grandma's house when it sold. Being a newlywed, I relied on the verified, observed history of the brand and model of washers I had seen since I was a kid. The same brand, the same type or washer is not made well TODAY. And it wasn't a "cheap buy" either, I was paying for what, until the 1990's, had been a quality made brand.

Good luck trying to find a 30 year old appliance. Most of them are probably working away in some octogenarian's house since the darn things were built to last.

Aye mi Dios you're dense or a troublemaker, can't quite decide.


So you don't think there are any decently made washers today?

At all?

At any price?

LOL



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by SuicideBankers

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by SuicideBankers

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest
 


Most wrenches are solid state items, casting would be the main issue I'd worry about, stanely makes a good wrench too.

Most items we buy are not made from solid state construction, nor are they as durable as even the cheapest made wrench you can find. Seems this Thread is being derailed for some reason, and cannot have an honest conversation as to why more cheaply made items are being allowed to be sold, yes people need to be able to sell their wares, but wares worth selling would be a main focus I'd hope.

Funny you say wrench, since I can mention something about tools and time.
For a while when I was younger, you'd buy a toolset and it would come in a metal sturdy box, now you buy a toolset most of the metal boxes are considered " High End " while the regular joe's toolset comes inside a plastic snapshut. Why the change, to cut on costs, but the price didn't drop, the quality did.


Cheaper items are sold to appeal to the market that can't afford the higher quality items. Yes they break but its because...well...they are made cheaply.

Pointing out logic is not derailing your thread.


Then lets discuss producing quality items for everyone. Would that be possible? Is quality something that only the rich are entitled to? One good example is throw away cars. Most recommend trading your car in every 2 years. There was a time when a car lasted several generations handed down from parents to children to their children.


It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That would be an advertisement I would love to see!

"Hey folks we don't make a great product in fact its going to break a month after you get it home but hey its cheap!"

Corporations don't advertise that way. That leaves us with them lying about their product and passing it off as something worthwhile. Back in the day quality went hand in hand with affordability. Anyone could buy a well made product at an affordable price. Welcome to the disposable society where everything is cheap and nothing is made to last. Well at least for those of us who are not privileged


So you don't think there were any cheaply made products in say the 1950's?

Everything sold was affordable and lasted forever?

My God....you people amaze me sometimes.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:08 PM
link   
I don't want this test to go undone, please try this:

I see what you are saying as well, I really do, innovation should do such, but not at thee cost of function and durability. find me a good ice cream maker, I'm serious, find me one that the reviews do not talk about something breaking off...

( when I Had a old Wooden one that just got moldy that was reinforced with steel and that worked for years, still would if was sanitary. )

Let's do the next one for Printers.
( I have gone through about 10 printers since my old fashion one with the holes I had to pull off when the pages were done, but that printed Banners, posters, pictures, text, and not too shabby nor did it really ever break, the paper feeder was a bit hard but it barely ran out of ink using that ink ribbon .

They aren't saying just that the older items worked an lasted better, but that the trend of that innovative ideal process has been forsaken and used against the consumers in an efforts to garner more profits.



edit on 29-5-2013 by Tranceopticalinclined because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mountainmeg

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by buster2010

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.


There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.


One product. Maytag Washers. My family has always owned Maytag clothes washers.

My grandma's Maytag washer was over 30 years old and working fine when they finally sold the farmhouse. Over the years, my grandfather had had to replace a few belts, but it worked dandy. My mother's Maytag is around 25 years old and still merrily washing along. Again, a few belts have had to be replaced and a switch one time, but it was built to last.

My first Maytag lasted 10 years. My second 8 - the motor bearings burnt out and were not repairable. When I bought my THIRD washer, I asked the older gentleman sales person what the average lifespan of a washer was now - specifying that I was asking across brands. He told me "If you're lucky, 8-10 years". So. Same product, same use, doesn't last like it used to.


Maytag was bought by whirlpool along with several other brand names. I worked for whirlpool and I have seen how they make products. Its not pretty.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
I don't want this test to go undone, please try this:

I see what you are saying as well, I really do, innovation should do such, but not at thee cost of function and durability. find me a good ice cream maker, I'm serious, find me one that the reviews do not talk about something breaking off...

( when I Had a old Wooden one that just got moldy that was reinforced with steel and that worked for years, still would if was sanitary. )

Let's do the next one for Printers.
( I have gone through about 10 printers since my old fashion one with the holes I had to pull off when the pages were done, but that printed Banners, posters, pictures, text, and not too shabby nor did it really ever break, the paper feeder was a bit hard but it barely ran out of ink using that ink ribbon .

They aren't saying just that the older items worked an lasted better, but that the trend of that innovative ideal process has been forsaken and used against the consumers in an efforts to garner more profits.



edit on 29-5-2013 by Tranceopticalinclined because: (no reason given)


Thank you for holding an intelligent discussion and I will recognize your point. It would be wonderful if we could produce machines that accomplished all of our needs without breaking down but that just is not possible. The more complicated they get the greater the chance of something failing.

In the old days the consumer did not demand as much from their machines and those products were fairly simple in design. As to the example of the washing machine....it did one thing....washed the clothes and you only needed to occasionally change the belt.

Today the consumer demands 800 different speeds, they want it to fluff and roll and cook breakfast. As such, it is more complicated and of course will break down more. If you wish to pay top dollar you can find very well made ones but even those will have more problems than the basic washer did 30 years ago.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by SuicideBankers

Originally posted by Mountainmeg

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by buster2010

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.


There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.


One product. Maytag Washers. My family has always owned Maytag clothes washers.

My grandma's Maytag washer was over 30 years old and working fine when they finally sold the farmhouse. Over the years, my grandfather had had to replace a few belts, but it worked dandy. My mother's Maytag is around 25 years old and still merrily washing along. Again, a few belts have had to be replaced and a switch one time, but it was built to last.

My first Maytag lasted 10 years. My second 8 - the motor bearings burnt out and were not repairable. When I bought my THIRD washer, I asked the older gentleman sales person what the average lifespan of a washer was now - specifying that I was asking across brands. He told me "If you're lucky, 8-10 years". So. Same product, same use, doesn't last like it used to.


Maytag was bought by whirlpool along with several other brand names. I worked for whirlpool and I have seen how they make products. Its not pretty.


I will make sure I stay away from that company then.

Thank you for the insider tip.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by CranialSponge
reply to post by Hopechest
 





It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That's the friggin point.

There used to be a time when companies DID take personal responsibility for pumping out the best product they possibly could for their customers, and backed up their products throughout the entire life of said product... and advertised it as such.

There was no need for customers to read through six thousand consumer reports in order to determine whether or not a company's product had longevity and/or quality.

Those days are long gone and you've fallen into the planned obsolescence/throwaway consumer mentality hook, line, and sinker.


Well that is completely false.

You are viewing history through rose colored glasses.

There is a very long history of companies putting out subpar products to make a profit. Simply research canned meat products that companies were selling to the military for our soldiers in WWI.

So many examples of stuff like this in history and today is no different.



I'm not looking at history through rose coloured glasses.

I can remember my own friggin lifetime, thank you very much.

You have the audacity to tell me what I am and am not remembering correctly ?!

I have no need to research anything. I'm fully aware of government intervention of military issued company products that were enforced (or companies would lose their cushy military contract) in order to cut back on government military budgets. Only it's now become an everyday thing for our service men and women... whereas, instead, it used to be the exception to the rule during times of tightening the purse strings.

Don't assume to know my intelligence level and breadth of knowledge in a debate, because you'll lose.

You're certainly one brave little keyboard warrior on the other side of that computer screen, aren't you ?



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by CranialSponge

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by CranialSponge
reply to post by Hopechest
 





It is not the responsibility of a company to give everyone the best product possible.

That is up to the individual consumer to determine.


That's the friggin point.

There used to be a time when companies DID take personal responsibility for pumping out the best product they possibly could for their customers, and backed up their products throughout the entire life of said product... and advertised it as such.

There was no need for customers to read through six thousand consumer reports in order to determine whether or not a company's product had longevity and/or quality.

Those days are long gone and you've fallen into the planned obsolescence/throwaway consumer mentality hook, line, and sinker.


Well that is completely false.

You are viewing history through rose colored glasses.

There is a very long history of companies putting out subpar products to make a profit. Simply research canned meat products that companies were selling to the military for our soldiers in WWI.

So many examples of stuff like this in history and today is no different.



I'm not looking at history through rose coloured glasses.

I can remember my own friggin lifetime, thank you very much.

You have the audacity to tell me what I am and am not remembering correctly ?!

I have no need to research anything. I'm fully aware of government intervention of military issued company products that were enforced (or companies would lose their cushy military contract) in order to cut back on government military budgets. Only it's now become an everyday thing for our service men and women... whereas, instead, it used to be the exception to the rule during times of tightening the purse strings.

Don't assume to know my intelligence level and breadth of knowledge in a debate, because you'll lose.

You're certainly one brave little keyboard warrior on the other side of that computer screen, aren't you ?


I'm glad you recognize my point and I humbly accept your apology.

Its great to see that you have an open mind.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:21 PM
link   
I'm going to start a company that is called K.I.S.S. ( Keeping it Simply Simple )

No extra gadget, unless it doesn't impede performance, of course there's that funding issue.

It's just not sustainable, unless they are seeking to create extra jobs based on that premise... dun dun dunnnnn..



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest
 


Most wrenches are solid state items, casting would be the main issue I'd worry about, stanely makes a good wrench too.

Most items we buy are not made from solid state construction, nor are they as durable as even the cheapest made wrench you can find. Seems this Thread is being derailed for some reason, and cannot have an honest conversation as to why more cheaply made items are being allowed to be sold, yes people need to be able to sell their wares, but wares worth selling would be a main focus I'd hope.

Funny you say wrench, since I can mention something about tools and time.
For a while when I was younger, you'd buy a toolset and it would come in a metal sturdy box, now you buy a toolset most of the metal boxes are considered " High End " while the regular joe's toolset comes inside a plastic snapshut. Why the change, to cut on costs, but the price didn't drop, the quality did.

Time Changed Items, we seem to be full of items that require either a timed fix for a break it's designed to do, or it has an actual shelve life like food.
edit on 29-5-2013 by Tranceopticalinclined because: (no reason given)


How do you "derail" a thread after 4 posts between 3 users?



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest
 


I'm pretty sure they made a finite amount of the Olden days Maytag washers. Meaning we cannot go out and find a old one that works the same as the old ones did. Not to mention, you ever watch pawn stars or that picking show, old things are nearly more costly than the newer things making them not as helpful to many as it would of been to just of kept the one you had that was a ugly teal color with the chip.

It's the problem of the world honestly, since most of what is here is adopted elsewhere product wise. So after your solution of old maytag washers runs out, what old washers can we use then? Then we are forced to buy the new less efficient washers that break after a certain amount of time.


I understand your point but I think you are failing to grasp a certain concept. Products today are meant to do more, be faster, and improve efficiency.

As such, they require more parts and are more complicated. When that happens the odds of something breaking down increases.

Its not that companies are making worse products, its that they are simply more complicated and have more parts.

As we talked about earlier, if you buy a Craftsman wrench, it will still last you a lifetime. Its not a complicated thing like say a washer/dryer or automobile.

If you want that simpler version than you can find it somewhere.


I have to disagree. They are made to be assembled faster and produced cheaper. All the little gadgets that make them nifty for about a mouth are pre-assemble in china somewhere. When I worked at Whirlpool we were producing a complete and and boxed product ready for shipping about every 30 seconds. Not a whole lot of time to really check quality. In fact we were audited almost every night for some defect, disconnected wires, or improper assembly . Those were the small percentage we actually caught. I can only guess as to the number of defective product we sent out but I know it was something that was constantly an issue



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
I'm going to start a company that is called K.I.S.S. ( Keeping it Simply Simple )

No extra gadget, unless it doesn't impede performance, of course there's that funding issue.

It's just not sustainable, unless they are seeking to create extra jobs based on that premise... dun dun dunnnnn..


Its a great idea but the problem is that the consumer has changed.

If the consumer had wanted simple then these more complicated machines wouldn't have been invented.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 01:26 PM
link   
reply to post by Hopechest
 





I'm glad you recognize my point and I humbly accept your apology.

Its great to see that you have an open mind.


Nice try.

But fail... massive fail.



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