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Paul contradicts Jesus

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posted on May, 30 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The universe is the supreme being. We are the expression of the universe (god/supreme being)

And you are god, equal to Jesus as god, equal to Paul as god.

What's this thread about again? Something about whether you and Jesus believe something different from Paul. But you never really showed where Jesus and you agree.

How do you interpret this verse?

Matt 8:8 The centurion answered, “Lord, I’m not worthy for you to come under my roof. Just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I am also a man under authority, having under myself soldiers. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and tell another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and tell my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to those who followed, "“Most certainly I tell you, I haven’t found so great a faith, not even in Israel. 11 I tell you that many will come from the east and the west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven, 12 but the children of the Kingdom will be thrown out into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”"




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 


And you are god as well. You're trying to make it sound like I think I'm better than everyone else or something, you couldn't be more wrong, I see everything and everyone as equal.

I interpret the outer darkness as being Earth, where most everyone believes in a counterfeit god and where there is constant war and poverty.

"Gnashing of teeth" means anger or dismay. War and poverty both cause anger and dismay.
edit on 30-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I see everything and everyone as equal.



www.abovetopsecret.com...
Haven't you been reading that I think Paul is the opposite of Jesus?



outer darkness as being Earth, where most everyone believes in a counterfeit god

And is this counterfeit god equal to you too? And isn't the Earth god too? If Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob aren't on Earth, where are they?



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

You are trying SO hard to label me an atheist. Why are you doing that?

I don't think that it takes much effort to label you that way.
I'm not doing it because I have anything against you personally.
I just have this thing about people worshipping material things including the universe itself, and people, including yourself.



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

You are trying SO hard to label me an atheist. Why are you doing that?

I don't think that it takes much effort to label you that way.
I'm not doing it because I have anything against you personally.
I just have this thing about people worshipping material things including the universe itself, and people, including yourself.


Pagans and Wiccans are not atheists. Just because huge swaths of people don't believe in your version of a personal and intervening god, that doesn't exist within creation, but hates foreskins and is overly concerned about what people do in bed, who required blood sacrifices and insists on belief in stories, that doesn't make these people atheists.

I think that 3NL1GHT3N3D1's view of god is just too hard for you to comprehend. The idea that you are a spiritual being with a body, and that god also could be a spiritual being with a body, that body being the universe, is too foreign a concept in your tiny little religious mind to grasp.

It's this disrespect and hatred for all things physical that makes some Christians so darn unbearable. Everything is about the "next" world, and this world be damned, literally!




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 



For your part, he's a take it all or none at all, because that's how the Christians you know present it.


Actually no... I don't even consider Pauls work relevant... Its not an all or nothing thing...

The entire body of Pauls work relies on the reader to assume that his conversion on the road to Damascus actually happened... the reader must take his word for it..

I personally don't buy it...

Paul didn't know anything about Jesus, but he knew his name was great....

Paul used the name of a great man to obtain the following he desired.... He wanted to be great... He wanted followers like Jesus had... and he used the name of Jesus to get exactly that... NOT the lessons he taught




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 


I don't know if you're twisting my words on purpose or what.

Just because I think Paul was the opposite doesn't mean I don't think of him as equal. Think of it like every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

I don't know where they are, somewhere in this universe.

I know you're just ignoring everything I say just looking for a reason to disagree, but that's okay.
edit on 30-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Who the hell ever said I worship the universe? I don't worship ANYTHING because my beliefs do not require worship. My god does not require worship.

Let me guess, I'm an atheist because I don't worship something.


You are looking for a reason to call me atheist, just admit it. I believe in a god, meaning I am not an atheist, I know its really hard for you to comprehend, but DEAL WITH IT and shut up about it.

You obviously do not appreciate the world around you and ignore just how awesome it is. People like you are one of the main reasons we pollute so much. You don't appreciate what you have already been given, you only appreciate what you THINK is coming after this life.
edit on 30-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by windword
 

It's this disrespect and hatred for all things physical that makes some Christians so darn unbearable. Everything is about the "next" world, and this world be damned, literally!
Buddhism is an atheist religion.
Are you going to criticise everyone who belies that?

I have changed my previous position regarding "this world be damned".
I think we are stuck with the universe that we have, but not necessarily always in the condition in which we find it.
The universe is far from perfect so worshiping the universe is worshipping evil, in my opinion.



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

The entire body of Pauls work relies on the reader to assume that his conversion on the road to Damascus actually happened... the reader must take his word for it..
Hello.
That is a fictional story.
Paul never said that happened.
Instead he talks about (someone) being taken to heaven
and being told things that are unrepeatable.
edit on 30-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword
 

It's this disrespect and hatred for all things physical that makes some Christians so darn unbearable. Everything is about the "next" world, and this world be damned, literally!
Buddhism is an atheist religion.
Are you going to criticise everyone who belies that?

I have changed my previous position regarding "this world be damned".
I think we are stuck with the universe that we have, but not necessarily always in the condition in which we find it.
The universe is far from perfect so worshiping the universe is worshipping evil, in my opinion.


That's not true....

Buddhism isn't atheist... Buddha didn't talk about God... but he believed in a higher power...




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
 

The entire body of Pauls work relies on the reader to assume that his conversion on the road to Damascus actually happened... the reader must take his word for it..
Hello.
That is a fictional story.
Paul never said that happened.
Instead he talks about (someone) being taken to heaven
and being told things that are unrepeatable.
edit on 30-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Alright fair enough...

His talks about the levels of heaven sounded very gnostic don't you think?




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

... but he believed in a higher power...

That is not the same thing as a supreme being.

It is classified as a religion, which takes into consideration the higher power.



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
 

... but he believed in a higher power...

That is not the same thing as a supreme being.

It is classified as a religion, which takes into consideration the higher power.


More like a philosophical outlook on life and death...

Buddhism isn't really a religion, theres no rituals, no praying...

Its based around internal search and discovery...

It doesn't assume to know anything about God, or gods...

but it is definitely not an "atheist religion"




posted on May, 30 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

His talks about the levels of heaven sounded very gnostic don't you think?

Read:
Lord of the Cosmos: Mithras, Paul, and the Gospel of Mark, by Michael Patella OSB
So, not gnostic, but Mithraic.

And for those Catholics out there, the "OSB" means he is of the Catholic order of Benedictine Monks.
I just checked the price and it's cheap enough, plus when I got my copy it was only available in hardback, and now it is in paperback too. So, everyone should be rushing to your favorite bookseller and getting a copy!
edit on 30-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword
 

It's this disrespect and hatred for all things physical that makes some Christians so darn unbearable. Everything is about the "next" world, and this world be damned, literally!


Buddhism is an atheist religion.
Are you going to criticise everyone who belies that?


First of all, I'm not criticizing anyone but you for throwing everyone who doesn't believe in your deity in an atheistic basket.

Buddha spoke of many deities. Belief in GOD is belief in a deity. Those who believed in Ra, Zeus, Baal, Odin, and the thousands of other gods were not atheists.


I have changed my previous position regarding "this world be damned".


Good for you.


I think we are stuck with the universe that we have, but not necessarily always in the condition in which we find it.
The universe is far from perfect so worshiping the universe is worshipping evil, in my opinion.


What do mean by worship?

A deity that demands "worship", as does the deity of the Old Testament, is evil in my mind.

I don't believe in your God, but I'm not an atheist, although being an atheist isn't intrinsically evil either.

Who are you to judge the universe as imperfect? What makes the universe imperfect in your opinion?



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by windword
 

Who are you to judge the universe as imperfect? What makes the universe imperfect in your opinion?
According to you, maybe it's fine, but I personally have problems with things like suffering and death.
Maybe you think the solution is to tune out the negative.
I think the universe exists and that it did not somehow allow us to inhabit it, but we caused it to come into being in order to accommodate our desire to be material beings.
We accept it as it is, along with its faults because that was as good as we could do, and pretty good for a first attempt.



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Does an asteroid suffer when it slams into the sun? Does the land suffer from a volcanic eruption, an earthquake or a tsunami? Is a black hole evil?

If we created a imperfect universe as a reflection of our imperfect nature, who created us in "their image"?



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Suffering and death are intrinsic parts of nature. You can't get rid of them otherwise you would not be able to appreciate bliss and life. The universe is all about balance, and if there is no bad to counterbalance the good, then the universe would not be perfect.

What happens on this tiny speck of dust called Earth does not define what the universe is as a whole. The universe is perfect in every way, if it weren't there would be no you or me to appreciate it.

Also, if we caused the universe to come into being like you say, wouldn't that mean that we are the creator? You may want to ponder that before you switch your brain off to the possibility.
edit on 30-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I don't know if you're twisting my words on purpose or what.

I wanted to know how you really think about the teachings of Jesus. The part of the verse that I was most interested in was what the Centurion was saying with regard to authority, and his recognition that Jesus could "just say the word,". Jesus called this recognition of his authority "great faith".

Since you focused on the rewards part of the passage, I thought that I would go ahead and let you test your "we're all gods as part of God" against an actual story situation. Things don't make sense if there is no functional difference, or hierarchy of honor. There would be no point in Jesus bringing up Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob if his followers didn't already have an exalted view of the Patriarchs.

I've had to consider certain implications of a Pantheist outlook myself after realizing that "everything is connected" and "we're all part of the Whole". These are wonderful things to realize, and the realization should not be drowned out. But, for movement and progress to occur, there also must be a difference in function.

And, in my opinion, there must also be a hierarchy of authority. Christians have chosen Jesus as the top authority. Many other people have chosen Jesus to be an authority, though perhaps not the top. Which of these views is most correct in the end, is as yet to be discovered. There is the possibility that Christians are more correct than I am. That's why I make lame attempts to defend Christians, it's the "just in case" factor.



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