Paul contradicts Jesus

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Paul taught that believing in Jesus' resurrection is necessary.

What Paul said was that if Jesus was not resurrected then we are still dead in our sins.

He did not say if we do not believe Jesus was resurrected, we are dead in our sins.

reply to post by jmdewey60


But if we do not believe he rose from the dead, then we are still dead in our sins. If that weren't the case, there would be no reason for belief.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Read Galatians 4:22-31, that is only one example among many where Paul quotes the OT.

If you don't think Paul relied on the OT to promote his message of Jesus being the messiah, then you are ignoring it

What?
That was Paul using a story in the Old Testament as a metaphor.
It had to do with us being accepted by God.
That had nothing to do with Paul, like you claimed, using the OT to support Jesus being the Christ.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Yet he still used the OT as part of his teachings. What don't you understand about that?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yet he still used the OT as part of his teachings. What don't you understand about that?

What I don't see is Paul using it to support his claim that Jesus was the Christ.
He was using commonly know stories as illustrations to make points.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

But if we do not believe he rose from the dead, then we are still dead in our sins.

Maybe that is a personal belief of yours, but it is not what Paul said.

If that weren't the case, there would be no reason for belief.

There is a reason to believe that Jesus rose from the dead because it gives us hope that we will be raised too.
That was Paul's point.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Paul quotes the OT a total of 183 times in his epistles. That's a lot of quoting from a book he supposedly didn't agree with don't you think?

In Romans alone, he quotes the OT 84 times. So you have to wonder, why would he directly quote a book that many times in one letter if he completely disagreed with it?

reply to post by jmdewey60


So I still get into heaven even if I don't believe in the resurrection? Awesome!

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

. . . I still get into heaven even if I don't believe in the resurrection . . .

Just think about the rapture cult guys on this forum who will tell you that
you have to believe in the rapture in order to be raptured.
How ridiculous is that?
Don't be like those guys.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

. . . I still get into heaven even if I don't believe in the resurrection . . .

Just think about the rapture cult guys on this forum who will tell you that
you have to believe in the rapture in order to be raptured.
How ridiculous is that?
Don't be like those guys.

edit on 29-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

He cannot help being like those guys because he is one of the "Evangelical Atheist"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being, but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too, usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of). When cornered they usually try to put down their opponent's religion and bash them for 'blind faith', not realizing that their belief that there is no god is no more or less valid or provable than the other guy's belief that there is one. Not to be confused with normal atheists/agnostics, who for the most part just don't talk about religion and accept the beliefs of those around them as their prerogative. Evangelical atheists are particularly common on the Internet, as organized religion is generally accepted as part of 'the system' of global human society, and lately it's become cool on the Internet to hate 'the system'. Evangelical atheist usually seeks to "convert" borderline theists, often by engaging in debate with fundamentalists.

reply to post by infolurker

Evangelical atheist usually seeks to "convert" borderline theists, often by engaging in debate with fundamentalists.

I've heard of those evangelical atheists, but I guess I haven't met any, until now.

Where does aping the language and manner of "borderline theists" come in? I view that sort of behavior as sociopathic.

reply to post by infolurker


Nice assumption, because I'm not an atheist at all. You could at least check my post history before throwing labels around.

There absolutely IS a god, just not your version.

reply to post by pthena


HA! Just because you were proved wrong (about the Gentile thing, not the topic of this thread to clear that up) doesn't mean you have to start calling me a sociopath. Grow up dude. I thought you were a cool guy, but obviously not.

I guess someone disagreeing with you makes you think they're a sociopath? Stereotype much? Me expressing my OPINION is no different than you expressing yours, so why not show some respect and stop calling people you know next to nothing about sociopaths.

This is considered a debate forum is it not? If you disapprove of people debating god then maybe you should see your way out of here?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There absolutely IS a god, just not your version.

I would consider thinking that you are God as being the same as atheism.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Why do you say that? It's not like I think I am God and me alone. God is what you see, the magnificent creation that is around us and within us, He is the light that lights the world, YOU.

We will never truly understand how the universe works in all of its complexity because we can only observe the external and not the internal (mind/thoughts), just as you think we can never truly understand God.

We are not separate from god and never have been, you only think we are.

Atheism is the belief that there is no God, if I believe that WE (collectively) are God, then I can not be an atheist by definition.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

God is what you see, the magnificent creation that is around us and within us . . .

That is not a belief in God.
You are imagining that the material universe is somehow a god.
That is materialism, which is, as far as I am concerned, the same as atheism.

Hi 3NLIGHT,

Jus saw your thread. People should read Scripture in context and not take one verse out and declare
what it means. AND, God did not give every person reading Scripture the AUTHORITY to interpret
Scripture. He gave it to the Church, she compiled the Bible. Important to read a Catholic Bible and
not a newer translation. Read the Douay-Rheims Bible. www.drbo.org...

Look at the verses surrounding the verse you talk about. Paul's words before help you understand what
verse 9 means. Jesus is Lord of all souls, living and dead. Except for those who say no and do not choose
for Jesus. God respects free will.

[8] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord' s. [9] For to this end Christ died and rose again; that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well, that's your opinion. If you think believing in a God constitutes as being atheist then you need to look up the definition of atheism.

Just because I believe the universe is part of god does not mean I'm a materialist who desires money or physical wealth. I'm more interested in the invisible side of god because it is the more mysterious side.

I acknowledge the beauty of god, I do not lust after it. There is a big difference.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you think believing in a God constitutes as being atheist then you need to look up the definition of atheism.

OK, I looked it up and you are still an atheist if you do not believe in a supreme being.
You just believe in yourself and whatever you see and how you imagine what you see works.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The universe is the supreme being. We are the expression of the universe (god/supreme being).

You are trying SO hard to label me an atheist. Why are you doing that? I'm not an atheist, I believe in a God, nothing you say is going to change that so stop trying.