Paul contradicts Jesus

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by pthena

 

There was a time I thought of the NT as one book and the old another...

I didn't even consider the issue until I came here...

When "Christians" refute Christ's words with Paul...

There's a serious problem in my humble opinion...

You're right. It means that there aren't enough Christians who read or understand their Bible and are more willing to listen to heretics on the internet instead. A similar problem that Jesus faced with the Jews when he said...

Mark 12:24

24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

That's just one of the several instances when Jesus accused them of not knowing or understanding what had already been written.

Perhaps the verses leading up to what Paul said should be examined for context. The problem with threads like these, although interesting, are that they single out ONE verse and then try and contradict that ONE verse with another verse. It is very easy to find contradictions when there is no supporting context.

reply to post by Akragon

When "Christians" refute Christ's words with Paul...

There's a serious problem in my humble opinion...

I'm trying to remember. I think that the only stuff that I used to quote from Paul was stuff about mechanics of salvation. My Sect of Christians took the moral teachings of Jesus quite seriously. As much as possible, we gave Jesus priority.

Maybe that's why I'm not quite understanding your issues. We weren't fundamentalists so we didn't have to believe everything in Paul. In fact, on a couple of things, we were taught "Paul just didn't know any better".

Tentative identification of communication barrier.

1) For my part, I freely blow Paul off wherever I disagree with him. For me he is no problem.
2) For your part, he's a take it all or none at all, because that's how the Christians you know present it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

He heavily relied on the OT to promote Jesus as the messiah prophesied.

Not in any specific way.
He does make a remark, "according to the scriptures" in reference to Jesus.
I think you may be thinking of the fictional character in the book of Acts.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Still don't know who the man Jesus is do ya? Nope, not at all. This world is the land of the dead and when he comes to reign, he'll be reigning over the living and the dead. Son of Man, second Adam = Lord of the Earth, Son of God = IEUE/YHWH = Lord of Heaven. Paul is correct.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Awen24

 

But wouldn't your explanation mean that Jesus was not god at all? You are separating Jesus from god in this situation.

The "Lord" IS god, so Paul calling Jesus Lord means he was calling him god.

Or is there more than one god?

Also, if Jesus turned those who are dead to life, then they are no longer dead but alive, right? Meaning he is still only Lord/God of the living and not the dead.

edit on 28-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

"The existing one" (Yehovah) is ONE but several parts make up the ONE that is from my point of view. www.biblestudytools.com...

You get more spiritual understanding when you know what the words really mean. There is a reason Jesus said he and the father are one. The part is symbiotically connected to the whole at the highest level it can achieve. But now we are getting into the non-dualic nature of what is and the souls that are sleep and cannot achieve the bliss-state. There is a reason it says: Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness.

Many humans believe that different religions say different things. Buddha and Jesus is from the same source when seen from a philosophical point. And Paul is for me probably the wolf in sheep clothing preaching duality from my point of view that is counter to christ preaching nonduality. God on higher levels knows what it is doing. The right teacher is sent at the right time to the right place or as in this moment the planet is flooded by parts waking up one by one.

Jesus word:
James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Pauls Contridiction:
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

If a good man/woman that do great things do not believe in god then it is probably because the message of god that reaches the man/woman has been distorted to a degree where it become vile or to simplified to suit the man/woman. I am in fact more impressed by atheists that are moral and nice without faith since they do it because it is right thing todo, not for future gifts.

And just to clarify atheists meet the real thing without religious dogma needed when it is their time. When god has a appointment with a soul then it happens no matter what beliefs are there before and sometimes an empty cup is better to be filled with experiance instead of other peoples word of that experiance. A person who is worthy to be awoken is it even without any human club membership.

.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

Perhaps the verses leading up to what Paul said should be examined for context. The problem with threads like these, although interesting, are that they single out ONE verse and then try and contradict that ONE verse with another verse. It is very easy to find contradictions when there is no supporting context.

That usually is the case with ignorant people trying to make weak minded people fall. It's willful deception and the Lord said he'd deal with these people at the appointed time and it'll be worse for them because they dared to open the book and read from it, which then makes you obligated to understand it. So, the only thing the OP actually accomplished was getting himself a worse punishment at the end.

reply to post by Deetermined


People called Jesus a heretic when he went against Judaic Law, and that's why he was executed. Funny that you call me a heretic but forget to remember that Jesus was considered one as well. What if you're making the same mistake the Jews did in the first century?

reply to post by pthena


I do pay close attention and I never said you said that. Can I not give my own thoughts on things that other people write? Or does it have to fit your guidelines? I guess expressing my opinion on Jesus being born in a potter's field is wrong?

Just because I expanded on your thoughts does not mean I am ignoring what you wrote.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So you're dead? Pretty impressive that you can use the internet while dead. Maybe you could do a "Crossing Over" type of TV show?

And yes, I know exactly who the "man" Jesus was, he was no different than any other man except he was an amazing teacher. He was kind of like the Hawking or Einstein of his time, minus the wheelchair or mustache.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So to god, everyone is alive, but to Jesus, who was god in the flesh saw some people as dead? I thought he learned everything from his Father (god)? So if god sees everyone as alive, where did Jesus learn that some are dead? Obviously not from god because he sees everyone as alive.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Wow, you're a fearful one aren't you? You are extremely afraid of the fictional hell, I can tell, otherwise you wouldn't say things like this.

If you only do good because you fear punishment then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Read Galatians 4:22-31, that is only one example among many where Paul quotes the OT.

If you don't think Paul relied on the OT to promote his message of Jesus being the messiah, then you are ignoring it.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

People called Jesus a heretic when he went against Judaic Law, and that's why he was executed. Funny that you call me a heretic but forget to remember that Jesus was considered one as well. What if you're making the same mistake the Jews did in the first century?

The difference is that Paul never taught anything different from what Jesus did, but somehow some self proclaimed "Christians" don't understand that.

reply to post by Deetermined


If Paul taught nothing different than Jesus then why does he never quote him? He doesn't use Jesus' words not one time. That goes to show he DID teach things different from Jesus.

How can you say they taught the same thing when Paul doesn't quote Jesus, not even once? Paul made his own teachings, and it was conveniently after Jesus died, when he could no longer speak for himself. Did Jesus tell people how to conduct themselves while in church or how women should be silent in church? Of course not, and that's only two examples. In fact, Jesus looked down on people going to church, read Matthew 6:5-6 to see what I mean.

Read almost anything Paul wrote and you won't find an ounce of it in the gospels, and that is a fact.

ETA: Paul quotes Jesus ONE time, so I take the part about him not quoting Jesus at all back. But ONE time out of the 13 LONG letters he wrote? Something doesn't add up.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Since Paul didn't begin his ministry until after the death of Jesus, he had to rely on the Holy Spirit to put words in his mouth. This might explain the lack of "exact quotes".

In all honesty, I wouldn't get too hung up on all of the Jewish laws that they followed. I think it's pretty clear in the Bible that for those who believed that such laws were necessary, that they should follow them. However, none of the ritualistic laws were a means of salvation, which is why Jesus didn't speak of them. Jesus only preached about matters relating to salvation. The rest was left to them to decide.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Wow, you're a fearful one aren't you? You are extremely afraid of the fictional hell, I can tell, otherwise you wouldn't say things like this.

If you only do good because you fear punishment then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

It ain't sheol i'm afraid of. I don't do good for fear of punishment, i do good because the spirit he gave me desires to do good and he allows me to act in ways i used to not. You don't know me now and you didn't know who i used to be. I once enjoyed hurting people, i was doing drugs, having sex with married women. I was evil and i loved it.

Your condemnation will be greater because you had the light in your hands, you opened the book and you read from it and you chose to decieve people.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

"The existing one" (Yehovah) is ONE but several parts make up the ONE that is from my point of view.
...
Buddha and Jesus is from the same source when seen from a philosophical point.

Brahman (ब्रह्मन् brahman) is "the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world"[1], which "cannot be exactly defined"
- wikipedia

Do you conclude then, that the story book character Yahweh = Brahman? Do you think that Yahweh and Brahman have the same attitude concerning polytheism?

Jesus word:
James 2:14-26
...
Pauls Contridiction:
Ephesians 2:8

How is quoting James and pseudo-Paul a proof of Paul contradicting Jesus?

A person who is worthy to be awoken is it even without any human club membership.

100% agree with this statement. But then, only when taken out of context.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

because they dared to open the book and read from it, which then makes you obligated to understand it. So, the only thing the OP actually accomplished was getting himself a worse punishment at the end.

Just how superstitious are you with regards to writings? Don't you think that defending a human is more important than defending a book? Haven't you watched "The Frisco Kid"? It's all right there.

reply to post by Deetermined


And he preached that salvation lay in doing good deeds, hence "love your neighbor as yourself". He never once said that believing he resurrected was necessary, Paul invented that.

Funny that Jesus decided to wait until AFTER his death to pick a bad tree (Paul) to spread "good" fruit that he didn't teach while alive. Why did he have to make Paul the middle man? Did he decide not to preach all of his message before he died?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Threatening me with "greater condemnation" goes to show that you yourself fear that condemnation. I'm guessing you started doing good (read: believing) after you started believing in hell?

Believing something does not equal doing good.