Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

Originally posted by Panic2k11
No human can be whole, complete and satisfied, that is not the human condition.

The human condition is division - the duality of man is a painful condition.

Even biologically it starts as we are dependent on our parents for longer than any other animal to the simple fact that we need a complementary sexual partner to replicate and fully fulfill our primal biologic imperative of survival (through reproduction). All else is mental constructs that most of the time are linked to faith and religious dogma.

The belief in need is what makes life uncomfortable. Notice that everything is provided - if it were not I don't think you would be here reading this.

In any case I think you are exaggerating Buddhist beliefs, from the utopic goals. Wants can be abolished and should be generally avoided (they are artificially created) but needs cannot while still having a material existence and that puts humans in a chicken and egg dilemma that so far hasn't been resolved (well, for all non-believers). In fact wanting to attain enlightenment is as bad as any other artificiality (and so all religious dogma is false dogma as it is external to yourself) what remains is simply acceptance of what is unmutable and understanding of all, especially of the self.

Liberation is not something to want - liberation is what is hiding behind all the drama of wanting.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The belief in need is what makes life uncomfortable. Notice that everything is provided - if it were not I don't think you would be here reading this.

I do not agree that everything is provided, everything should (and was) available and accessible, but always at a cost. Human society evolved to a point that many things are no longer available and accessible. Note also that life is not meant to be comfortable or it would soon not be worth living. As a species we managed to make life in this marvelous planet almost unbearable to the majority (and not only to humans). Needs do not need to be believed, wants do...

Liberation is not something to want - liberation is what is hiding behind all the drama of wanting.

Agree.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The belief in need is what makes life uncomfortable. Notice that everything is provided - if it were not I don't think you would be here reading this.

I do not agree that everything is provided, everything should (and was) available and accessible, but always at a cost. Human society evolved to a point that many things are no longer available and accessible. Note also that life is not meant to be comfortable or it would soon not be worth living. As a species we managed to make life in this marvelous planet almost unbearable to the majority (and not only to humans). Needs do not need to be believed, wants do...

You are uncomfortable - and you project it out into the world. You need to find out who is suffering from lack - when you find that there is nothing lacking where you are then the whole world will change because the lens through which it is viewed will have changed.
Do you believe you will have to suffer (from the feeling of lack) for eternity?

I don't know if anyone is still reading this...

I completely agree with trying to rid of greed (as the Buddha suggests); I think this is attainable and probably a good thing to do. Ridding of all desire and suffering is another matter altogether. For all we know that was a misinterpretation of the Suttas and it meant - ridding of greed, not all desire (I am not sure).

However one point is this: needs and desire originate from this body. It is due to the formations/structure of this body/mind/consciousness contraption that we have needs, emotion, desire, etc. We cannot just undo this body - here it is, it already exists.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You are uncomfortable - and you project it out into the world.

We all are, to some degree I agree that we shape our own perceptions (and the perceptions of others) but factual evidence is abundant to state that the world (life) makes life uncomfortable by default, and there is no problem with that...

You need to find out who is suffering from lack - when you find that there is nothing lacking where you are then the whole world will change because the lens through which it is viewed will have changed.

This is illogical since lack of something is a constant to the human experience, from air to more complex things. Human society evolved from the premise of providing security (including shelter, food, water). None of these basic aspirations have been realized, we in fact are generally less self-reliable and independent than ever...

Do you believe you will have to suffer (from the feeling of lack) for eternity?

Nothing is eternal but time is relativistic. I do not believe that I (or anyone), as an individual will survive death's transition (even if I understand how to some that would be appealing), whatever happens next can only be different...

I'm a pantheist so I believe in a grand plan but at the same time I remain very skeptical in regards to humans having any special place in it and even less so as individuals (even if I recognize that individual action is the prime mover, alone very little can be accomplished), there are no special individuals only special circumstances...

reply to post by Panic2k11


Do you really believe that you lack air?
At this present moment you are not lacking anything otherwise you would be dead. Lack is a belief that has not been investigated - this belief makes people want more but what more is actually available right now?
Life feels very uncomfortable for those you have not found out for sure if there is anything actually lacking - but for those who have checked life is comfortable.
Watch this video I posted much earlier in the thread to check to see if there really is anything lacking.

Do you want to live an uncomfortable life just because you believe something without question?

How much of the Buddah's writings have you actually read and understood?

reply to post by nOraKat


This is wht I've been saying. To abolish desire is to forsake the keystone of our humanity.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

And what's wrong with that? What about our humanity is worth keeping?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by nOraKat

 

This is wht I've been saying. To abolish desire is to forsake the keystone of our humanity.

Damsel has a point. What about your humanity are you so attached to? What has it gotten you, really? Nothing, but the ego will fight for its existence, just as it always does.