Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

reply to post by Manula


You simply don't understand what you're talking about. That's all I have to say.

I will go to bed now and if i have nightmares, no eternal joy yet.

Its a shame...

You want joy? See the bright side of all situations, stick to it, and you will feel better more and more often.

It works this way: if you find reasons to like an event, then you will feel good about it.

Everything has a positive side, even death.

Adversity will make you stronger, it will make you learn about courage, compassion, it will make you learn to manage your emotions better, etc etc

There is always reasons to find adversity useful and good.

There is always some goodness in every situations.

If you reject suffering you are fighting fire with fire, why not find reasons to like it?

Darkness needs light, not more darkness, if you like it, you are bringing light to it.

See you tomorrow truth seekers

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by Manula

 

You simply don't understand what you're talking about. That's all I have to say.

Oh and Harry, why the rush to leave this planet?
My guess is, as long as you reject it, you will need to return.

I know , i am tired also, i see too many negative events and negative attitudes, but its a school planet, people are learning from mistakes, its supposed to be like this.

Please learn to love this planet and everything that is going on here.

Only brave souls incarnate here.

Read Michael Newton´s books they talk a lot about it.

Take care.

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

Who said anything about freedom from flesh?

Only a child, a fool or a lunatic can't keep his emotions in check. A sane person does not have this obstacle in their life. Yet, you say Freedom is the ABILITY to control your emotions.

But we're talking about a higher plane of life existence. Not your apparent battle with your uncontrollable emotions from which you seek freedom from. If that's your definition of Freedom, then most people on Earth live that everyday. Just not you.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

Who said anything about freedom from flesh?

Only a child, a fool or a lunatic can't keep his emotions in check. A sane person does not have this obstacle in their life. Yet, you say Freedom is the ABILITY to control your emotions.

But we're talking about a higher plane of life existence. Not your apparent battle with your uncontrollable emotions from which you seek freedom from.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Oh it feels good to go to that higher plane doesn't it??~

Seeking the outstanding feelings that go with that accomplishment?

You are an emotion seeker and don't even acknowledge it

Everyone is....

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

Who said anything about freedom from flesh?

Only a child, a fool or a lunatic can't keep his emotions in check. A sane person does not have this obstacle in their life. Yet, you say Freedom is the ABILITY to control your emotions.

But we're talking about a higher plane of life existence. Not your apparent battle with your uncontrollable emotions from which you seek freedom from. If that's your definition of Freedom, then most people on Earth live that everyday. Just not you.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Can you feel joy, love, excitement, and all the positive feelings when you want it, as long as you want it?

IF you cant then you cant control your emotions. Are you a child a lunatic or a fool?

In your own words, yes!

reply to post by Manula


Reject it? No. I have simply grown tired of it, of the suffering. This mindset is what leads to enlightenment, not further incarnations. It is what motives one to transcend.

There is no such thing as a soul. Existence is non-dual, there is no separation. You are God. Simple as that. You don't 'have' to come back to the relative, it's all Your choice. You have nothing to learn, nowhere to go. It's in my signature.

reply to post by Manula


You make some good points Manula as do many others in this OP, seems your concern is related to potential traps or unseen areas related to new or old reminded teachings and with this 1 only recommends you see many are only trying to assist the... & ALL*

NAMASTE*******

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

Who said anything about freedom from flesh?

Only a child, a fool or a lunatic can't keep his emotions in check. A sane person does not have this obstacle in their life. Yet, you say Freedom is the ABILITY to control your emotions.

But we're talking about a higher plane of life existence. Not your apparent battle with your uncontrollable emotions from which you seek freedom from.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Oh it feels good to go to that higher plane doesn't it??~

Seeking the outstanding feelings that go with that accomplishment?

You are an emotion seeker and don't even acknowledge it

Everyone is....

The moment you try to tell someone what you think they are, you are instantaneously wrong and being foolish.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I just think it's dishonest. It's like we're trying to stamp out a part of ourselves for this "peace in the present moment". It achieves nothing but self-contempt. Anytime we try to achieve certain altered states of being we are still "craving and clinging" to reach those goals.

What is it in ourselves that's worth saving; that we shouldn't stamp out? As the saying goes, the ends justify the means. It may seem like a bad thing to give up certain desires that, when satiated, bring pleasure, but if the end result is a peace that is far more powerful and more lasting than any pleasure gained through desire, isn't it worth it?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I don't see anything wrong with desire. In fact it's a part of being human and I find it quite beautiful. But we shouldn't deceive ourselves into thinking it is desire that causes evil and suffering, because, as we've talked about, desire can also lead to "the good" things such as "freedom of desire" and other such noble goals. Only reason can teach us what we should and shouldn't desire.

Having desire does not guarantee suffering on its own, you're right. However, that does not mean desire is not responsible for our suffering. In the earlier example, if one desires good health for themselves or others, there will be suffering when they or others fall ill or die. These things are inevitable. Everything is impermanent in the world, so the question becomes, what should we desire? I say there is no desire that, when satiated, results in freedom from suffering. Not even the desire to be free from desire, since, as I mentioned before, it is never truly satiated, it is discarded in the process.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Is that honesty I see? You are a rarity around here. Nice to cross your path.

Thank you. It's nice to have this opportunity to debate with you. I have a lot of respect for the posts and threads you've made around here.

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by Manula
You people are attached to a certain way of living, calm, peaceful, no up and downs, be free, do what you want, desire one day, let go the day after, you can live the white if you can live the black.... you people are putting a leash on yourselves...

Oh and about freedom, freedom is... being able to choose what is important at any given moment, its being able to do what you want and be brave enough to live with the consequences. Just a definition, there are plenty...

We're not talking about petty freedoms. When a seeker refers to Freedom, he is desiring to live and experience the boundless nature of himself. This is a freedom of GODLY proportions, not this nonsense about "freedom to do what you want and when you want" that's just childish.

Do you want freedom from the flesh? Only after you die.

Real freedom is to be able to control your emotions no matter what happens. Thats freedom.

Who said anything about freedom from flesh?

Only a child, a fool or a lunatic can't keep his emotions in check. A sane person does not have this obstacle in their life. Yet, you say Freedom is the ABILITY to control your emotions.

But we're talking about a higher plane of life existence. Not your apparent battle with your uncontrollable emotions from which you seek freedom from. If that's your definition of Freedom, then most people on Earth live that everyday. Just not you.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Can you feel joy, love, excitement, and all the positive feelings when you want it, as long as you want it?

IF you cant then you cant control your emotions. Are you a child a lunatic or a fool?

In your own words, yes!

I feel all sorts of emotions at times.But I'm not the one saying that freedom lies in the ability to control them. I think sanity, is all that is needed. Besides, why waste time trying to conjure emotions in my head? That would be silly. Only a miserable person wishes for that. Are you miserable, where you need to be able to create happy thoughts in your head, to get through the day?

There is no point is continuing this discussion.
I just hope you guys live the way you want, just be who you really are, and love who you are, that's a big help.

Originally posted by arpgme
Only when one feels powerless do they need to control. People control to get what they want and they feel like that can only happen through manipulation and control. Either that or, they fear to lose the control. So control is always dealing with negative emotions: fear (of losing something), desperation (to get something)...

Then negative emotions such as hate, anger, jealousy, or sadness happens when we feel that we couldn't control to get what we want.

Without desire you are free of control.

Letting go thoughts of lack and staying with thoughts of Satisfaction (or perfection) will help loosen the grip of needing to control all others for self-fulfillment.

Some people do not like Buddhism because it teaches about destroying "The Self" but it is not the TRUE self that is being destroyed it is the FALSE self.

The TRUE self feels whole, complete, satisfied.
The FALSE self feels separate, incomplete, unsatisfied needing to always seek and control.

Buddha is not around to defend himself, so you can say anything in his name.

The problem with religions is that religions are taken over by vested interests (and often criminal elements).

Buddha existed in an environment when people were tired of unnecessary warfare and moral corruption in society.

His message of peace appealed to war weary people.

Can you quote from the original Sanskrit texts and then we can have a more meaningful discussion?

reply to post by GargIndia


This thread is not about Buddha it's about why "i" believe he sAid desire is suffering

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You seem to misunderstand; you are enslaved to the body's needs. You must breathe, you must eat, drink, sleep, piss, and s***. How can you be free when you have no choice but to comply?

Originally posted by Damsel
Having desire does not guarantee suffering on its own, you're right. However, that does not mean desire is not responsible for our suffering. In the earlier example, if one desires good health for themselves or others, there will be suffering when they or others fall ill or die. These things are inevitable. Everything is impermanent in the world, so the question becomes, what should we desire? I say there is no desire that, when satiated, results in freedom from suffering. Not even the desire to be free from desire, since, as I mentioned before, it is never truly satiated, it is discarded in the process.

Is it the desire itself which results in suffering, or is it the attachment to the fulfilment of the desire which brings frustration and discomfort?

I believe it is the latter, the attachment to an expected or anticipated outcome, which is the root of the problem. In essence, when we create a fantasy in the mind of having or being something we are not, and we become attached to realizing this fantasy, then some form of suffering results when the fantasy fails to manifest in reality.

On the other hand, if we have a desire, but we are open to accepting the outcome, then I cannot see how the desire itself causes suffering.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
Is it the desire itself which results in suffering, or is it the attachment to the fulfilment of the desire which brings frustration and discomfort?

I believe it is the latter, the attachment to an expected or anticipated outcome, which is the root of the problem. In essence, when we create a fantasy in the mind of having or being something we are not, and we become attached to realizing this fantasy, then some form of suffering results when the fantasy fails to manifest in reality.

On the other hand, if we have a desire, but we are open to accepting the outcome, then I cannot see how the desire itself causes suffering.

I don't see how one can have a desire but also completely accept the outcome regardless of what happens. If one truly were to have no preference for a situation going one way or the other, then I don't see how you could call it a desire. In order to call it a desire, there has to be some level of craving there and some degree of attachment to the idea. A desire can only come from not being completely satisfied with the present moment.

Good question though. Attachment/clinging definitely goes hand in hand with desire/craving.

reply to post by Damsel


and we get all this when we pass, humans need desire and passion to drive them, would you not suffer as a human regardless how enlightened if someone hurt your child. Would you stop desiring for your children because your enlightened. Take your choice here, but i say take a step back. You are what you talk but not in human, your here to experience physical so don't waste, enjoy all that is and desire till your heart content. You won't know content regardless till you die, have a NDE or use drugs and when you come back you feel totally disassociated in a human world. Silly enjoy what your hear for and stop trying to skip the human.

Originally posted by Damsel
I don't see how one can have a desire but also completely accept the outcome regardless of what happens. If one truly were to have no preference for a situation going one way or the other, then I don't see how you could call it a desire.

Well, for example, I desire more spare time to spend posting on this forum, and I do look for opportunities to present themselves. However, when there simply is no time for this, then I just get on with whatever I am doing and do not feel perturbed about it. If there is time on offer, then I take it, and if not, it usually means my mind is attentive to something else. I enjoy my time here, but (as yet) I am not attached enough to suffer if it isn't going to happen.

In order to call it a desire, there has to be some level of craving there and some degree of attachment to the idea. A desire can only come from not being completely satisfied with the present moment.

Yes, most likely a desire does indicate some level of incompleteness in the moment, but I think that we are also able to enjoy the present moment while still anticipating some future moments. Unless the mind is extremely focused and trained to remain attentive to nothing but the task at hand, it is quite capable of entertaining several trains of thought at the same time or in close succession.

However, if we are so attached to satisfying a desire that we are then unable to relax or feel at peace in the present circumstance, then that attachment does become a problem.