Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
In this thread i am putting the idea out there for consideration that fear is the linkage between control and survival and even with thought removed that that force of survival will ensure that fear and control remain in our lives.

I dont have to survive right now but i am fully aware i am mortal.

You want to control because there is fear of not being - not existing. If you find out what existence is and what non existence is then there will be no more fear of non existence or existence.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Manula
I dont know how you were born, what are you doing here? Nothing to do, nothing to create...
That way of life kills me, i really cant understand it...

What I am was never born. What I am has never not been.
Nothing was ever created - it/I appear as all there is - what could I possibly want? It is all here as this.

You are appearing a wanting - how does it feel - because I have read your posts and you are looking for something better so it appears it is not good enough as yet.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Why are you writing here? Nothing to do... Its all done.
Did you want to wrtite the posts?
Why do you want to get out of bed?
Your theory is just impossible...
Its a mind game, you dont act according to it, otherwise you would be dead... or in coma...

Originally posted by Manula

Why are you writing here? Nothing to do... Its all done.
Did you want to wrtite the posts?
Why do you want to get out of bed?
Your theory is just impossible...
Its a mind game, you dont act according to it, otherwise you would be dead... or in coma...

It all just happens.
This is aliveness - it is being all there is.
The appearance is moving - it will not stop.

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Manula
I dont know how you were born, what are you doing here? Nothing to do, nothing to create...
That way of life kills me, i really cant understand it...

What I am was never born. What I am has never not been.
Nothing was ever created - it/I appear as all there is - what could I possibly want? It is all here as this.

You are appearing a wanting - how does it feel - because I have read your posts and you are looking for something better so it appears it is not good enough as yet.

edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Why are you writing here? Nothing to do... Its all done.
Did you want to wrtite the posts?
Why do you want to get out of bed?
Your theory is just impossible...
Its a mind game, you dont act according to it, otherwise you would be dead... or in coma...

It is the idea that arises that says 'I could be better, I could feel better, this could be better' that one hears that causes the distress (the emotional response in the body). It distresses you because instead of hearing it just as a noise or feeling, you believe it wholeheartedly. The feeling is usually caused by the belief in the idea 'It is not good enough' - see, it is a mind game that you play with yourself. Words heard, ideas believed and then you can play the game of victim and go looking for something to complete you - somewhere in time and space but not here - how can you seek what is here (there is nothing else available - so you feel lack). A mind game of pretending you are lacking so you can live in the drama instead of feeling complete and whole. It's just the game one plays with oneself. Oneness plays hide and seek.
The feeling, the thought and all that is arising is what completes you - it is never somewhere or some when else.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


The being likes to express himself, to create...
Its nott a feeling of lack or incomplete.

Self-expression!!

Life is not about feeling lack or incomplete, its about creating to celebrate life itself.

That theory of yours is not real, its an ilusion in your mind.

One day you will awake from your numbness,

Originally posted by Manula
Life is not about feeling lack or incomplete, its about creating to celebrate life itself.

That theory of yours is not real, its an ilusion in your mind.

One day you will awake from your numbness,

I never claimed that life is about feeling lack or incompleteness.
This thread is saying that you should end desire - I am saying that you do not have to end desire, for that is impossible, one must find out what it means to desire - to want - and find out who is lacking.

Death is the only TRUE freedom. While we are alive we experience emotions. It is human. When we die we are free of living emotions, free of all earthly influences. Death is the spirit breaking free from this physical realm and becoming ONE with all that is.

That's my 7am attempt at sounding philosophical. Have a great day!

Freedom is just a word that appears to exist briefly in that which never exists but allows the apparent existence of the word.
That which never exists but allows all apparent things to appear to exist - is boundless.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

Without desire you are free of control.

Without desire there is still fear. Fear is the fundamental driver behind survival. Control mabey an inherent survival feature encoded inside humans DNA.

Fear is what happens when we think we may get the opposite of what we want.

reply to post by Manula

Originally posted by Manula
Life is not about feeling lack or incomplete, its about creating to celebrate life itself.

That theory of yours is not real, its an ilusion in your mind.

One day you will awake from your numbness,

Life is not 'about' anything but living. Any 'meaning' given to life is a belief. A meaning to life can only happen within life because in order for meaning to exist one thing must depend upon another, such as:

Water exists to keep life alive.

When existence is all there is (non existence does not exist) , then any possible meaning that can be given to existence is WITHIN existence itself so it is circular logic.

There is no meaning, and because of that it can be any meaning we choose.

You don't have to want anything to create. I can feel wholeness and it may still happen that I browse ATS and reply to forums.

"no longing" does not equate to "no interests" it just puts a space between you and your interest so that it doesn't become an attachment to which if it were to disappear you'll feel hurt and longing.

There are preferences/interests but if those preferences/interests don't show up. It is ok because nothing is lacking so there is no desperation.

By the way, if feeling "whole/satisfied" feels positive to you then that is just your mental perception. Satisfaction/wholeness is not positive or negative it is just the reality. Nothing is missing until we believe it is, and by longing on what we THINK is missing, this is how we trick ourselves into believing that we aren't whole/complete and this is when the satisfaction of life fades away and only becomes temporary (when short-lived desires are fulfilled.

Originally posted by Phantasm
Death is the only TRUE freedom. While we are alive we experience emotions. It is human. When we die we are free of living emotions, free of all earthly influences. Death is the spirit breaking free from this physical realm and becoming ONE with all that is.

That's my 7am attempt at sounding philosophical. Have a great day!

Excellent answer and exactly what I would have said.

From the time of our births, into our physical bodies we desire, we need, or else our bodies die off. Getting away from desire happens at the death of the body.

reply to post by arpgme

Fear is what happens when we think we may get the opposite of what we want.

Consider the fear of being in an car accident so we have seat belts to retrain us. The idea of using contraint controls is to protect us from the inevitable dangers encountered in life.

We have jails to cage dangerous people. Is this wrong?

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Really, dude? You're going to bring the grand-daddy of lacking and wanting into this?

The need to be 'saved' is the same as the need to be 'right'. It's all egoic obsession. Is that the dead end you want people to be led to by your life? So people can sit on clouds and play harps?

I know that all roads lead to the same destination, but some side-trips aren't worth the effort, in my informed opinion (after having spent half my adult life on them).

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by arpgme

 

Fear is what happens when we think we may get the opposite of what we want.

Consider the fear of being in an car accident so we have seat belts to retrain us. The idea of using contraint controls is to protect us from the inevitable dangers encountered in life.

We have jails to cage dangerous people. Is this wrong?

edit on 29-5-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

Whether it's "wrong" or not depends on your belief system. You ask me if it''s "wrong" but the fact that you ask this means that you already have your own ideas and beliefs systems about "right" and "Wrong" so I won't go into it.

It is all just happening, and yes I have preferences but just because I like something that doesn't mean its' "good" and just because I don't like something that doesn't mean it's "bad".

reply to post by Damsel

If you desire health, then what happens when you fall sick, or even start to die? You will suffer. If you desire creativity, what happens you experience things that are mundane and uncreative? You will suffer.

To be free from all suffering, you must be free from all desire. Craving and clinging are the causes of suffering.

Then it would seem freedom from desire is also freedom from joy and life. It seems like the desire for an ending of suffering is a desire for an end of the human experience and life, which includes, and not is absent of, suffering. One who doesn't desire health, health for his friends, to avoid bodily pain, love for others, to be creative, to be happy, is on the fast-road for more suffering.

Therefor, craving and clinging are not the causes of suffering. They are the result of suffering.

Someone else pointed out your title should be "free from desire" not "of" ..anyhow. The thing is most of my life i have been free from desire...most. For instance for all the years I never had any money, I didn't desire to be like all the celebrities who had everything money could buy..instead i looked at how ridiculous they all were, keeping up with silly fashions and having all that money but never retiring off into the sunset, because they were so addicted to the fame and sheer greed of wanting even more...It put me right off desiring fame and fortune.

Then dealing with romantic relationships, I learned how petty people quickly become, how clingy how selfish they get once they know someone "loves" them..but the love isnt love at all, its just fear of being alone. So i gave up on the notion of romantic love, it's a modern myth and just balloons peoples egos out of all proportion...it's generally just an unhealthy desire.

The biggest problem however is this...If you decide to opt out of modern life, and all the chasing of things, like careers and money and including relationships..they your seen as a loser and strange and inevitably you will be coerced to join in, by peer pressure. And that's where most of the desires come from in our society, peer pressure. Most people are sick of all the fads and broken relationships...sick to the back teeth, but they continue pursing these things because if they don't they will feel completely isolated in society. Thats why when people traditionally wanted to opt out of the world of desire, they became monks and nuns and lived far away from the society.

In fact today may people who subscribe to ATS are of the same mindset, they are sick of the society and culture of greed and selfishness and would like to opt out and be self sufficient ...many of them will be non religious or even atheists, but the fact they want out, has more in common with being a monk or a nun than they might think. The religious people called it getting closer to God, where as the non religious call it getting away from the rat race, but really the sense of freedom and peace is the same thing.

in essence

CREATOR Creations ETERNALLY Existing

FREE WILL instituted spawns ENERGY EXPLORE (ambitions or desires)

FREE WILLed Energy, Explore energy containment (device?)

SOME Free WILL ENERGIES Manifest... into MORTAL (environment suits to fit Exploring / explored ENERGY containment AREAS) but IMMORTAL ETERNAL ENERGY and so @ times may prefer a more immortal shell or highest self... main body...

Strength obtained in consciousness link between planes of EXISTENCE creates conscious connection to different planes of existence or the ALL* of YOU.. H.Svs. ...


matryoshka doll reference in reference to planes of existence...



and so ALL of YOUs Higher Selves in different planes existing as 1... This is just part of the understanding. SO breaks-




-continues THE H.S. YOUs in multiple PLANES of EXISTENCE are part of the WHOLE making the actual ALL* WHOLE STRUCTURE up as the consideration of Multiple CREATOR Creations ENERGIES & some manifesting into MORTAL (environment suits to fit Exploring / explored ENERGY containment AREAS) is acknowledged. With this now CONNECT. THE ALL* is been you and never left. THE LACK is FEELING that you are ALONE in single plane or here. And so the who feel so Act out with from desires or attach to the material subjective understood reality as FEAR of BEYOND stays residual in thought in the subconscious.

THE FATHER
THE SON
THE HOLY GHOST


1 challenges not the religious practices of EA*RTH. And hopes MANY don't get the misconception of some or 1z intents... Due to FEAR or not acknowledging the connections the may have forgotten they were part of causing the lack void to need filled with - energies -

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by ElOmen

You mean like destroying the ego?

How can you destroy something that's a part of you? Do you not want to exist at all? Because that's ego. Self-regard. The acknowledgement of the self. Destroy the ego, you forget you even exist. Then you die. Slowly. Painfully. Because you no longer possess the comprehension to take responsibility for your physical manifestation. You've basically acquitted yourself of all existential desire.

Which means you've forfeited your desire to live at all.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Which means you've forfeited your desire to live at all.

Life is alive. The one who believes in death is the one fighting.

It makes sense to be confident in ones self

but ego weighs your YOUs DOWN And scatters the YOUs in the planes instead of them being INLINED TO COMMUNICATE thru you with you . Causing the forget DISCONNECT OR LACK do to compressing so much energy in a Subjectively lack felt zone of existence as the then acts out as the tries to make the simulation of the ALL* or WHOLE in that plane of lack.. in which the gains consciousness...