Intelligent first cause: WHY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE

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posted on May, 29 2013 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Scientists have taken everything (particles etc.) out and made a vacuum and then watched it very closely with strong magnifying cameras and watched as virtual particles appear out of - nothing.


No, no, no. lol They've watched particles appear from somewhere.

Where? What somewhere else?


Probably from just outside of the vacuum they created, I don't know. We aren't talking magic here. Those particles had to come from somewhere.


So when you are at sea and you see waves do you assume they are coming from somewhere else? Or do you see that the ocean is waving.




posted on May, 29 2013 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Energy is not a thing.




Explain how energy is nothing.

It is not a thing - not a particular - it is the whole.
Name it.
edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


From here on out you are just playing with words. It is energy. We call it energy because it is energy. Is it pressure caused by the vacuum? Is it quantum waves moving and causing heat? I don't know, but it is energy. I don't know what gravity looks like, but I know it's a form of energy.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Scientists have taken everything (particles etc.) out and made a vacuum and then watched it very closely with strong magnifying cameras and watched as virtual particles appear out of - nothing.


No, no, no. lol They've watched particles appear from somewhere.

Where? What somewhere else?


Probably from just outside of the vacuum they created, I don't know. We aren't talking magic here. Those particles had to come from somewhere.


So when you are at sea and you see waves do you assume they are coming from somewhere else? Or do you see that the ocean is waving.


I assume the waves have a source. An energy that caused them.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Scientists have taken everything (particles etc.) out and made a vacuum and then watched it very closely with strong magnifying cameras and watched as virtual particles appear out of - nothing.


No, no, no. lol They've watched particles appear from somewhere.

Where? What somewhere else?


Probably from just outside of the vacuum they created, I don't know. We aren't talking magic here. Those particles had to come from somewhere.


So when you are at sea and you see waves do you assume they are coming from somewhere else? Or do you see that the ocean is waving.


I assume the waves have a source. An energy that caused them.

The ocean - the waves - all of it is the one energy.
The waves wave and they may think they are independent, they think they are doing it - but they are being done.
edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 04:05 AM
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All there is is what is right here and right now. What is it?
If you look to see what is seeing the image that is appearing presently - this image includes all that is arising, thought, sensation, smell, sound, vision - can you find what is knowing, is aware of what arises?
Because without that which is aware of the arising, no thing could arise.
You can be sure of one thing - you are. So go and find out what that is. In you thoughts arise - can you find what you are prior to any thought arising?

Now - is thought a thing? Can you hold a thought? Can you grasp a thought and keep it? Or are thoughts just wisps of nothing appearing in nothing and then subsiding back into nothing?
edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 04:17 AM
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The universe was never filled with anything, its filled with data. It is an empty box, like a sheet of paper with no writing on it, only with more dimensions.

I believe the universe is staged on something else, with more dimensions, we dont exist at all out side of this system and if the system is 'reset' the big bang explodes into life and the clock starts running, so to speak once again. The data and how it reacts to its environment is only real while its 'running', the platform above that the data (program) is running on is the real entity not the data. The universe is a computer and we experience the program but our matter and energy is just data, yet everything inside seems real to everything else. Holographic universe theory. Could a God designed this computer or designed the program? maybe but thats really another topic for another time


You can move a hand in a space of nothing in our universe, because there is nothing to push out of the way and nothing to fill in the space behind.

In a universe of nothing, there are no rules for each dimension and you are right about not being able to exist in it, but not for the reasons you stated.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by Biigs

You can move a hand in a space of nothing in our universe, because there is nothing to push out of the way and nothing to fill in the space behind.

In a universe of nothing, there are no rules for each dimension and you are right about not being able to exist in it, but not for the reasons you stated.


Yes - he does not exist in it - he is it and he isn't it, at the same time (presently).
This is nothing (one energy) appearing - emptiness is forming, nothing is happening.
Nothing never began and nothing will never end. The realization of nothing is the end of fearing non existence (the idea of death is just an idea).
edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 04:52 AM
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Every person fears non existence - they fear not being. This fear of not being drives them to be some 'thing'. They believe they can 'become' like God and be immortal or 'become' some thing before they die. They mistake themselves for a 'thing' separate to that which is whole.
You fear not being - but miss that you are already being - you are being all there is.
Being is right here and right now presently as this. But there is not a you that is separate - so you do not exist separate from the whole - you are the whole/this is the whole - what is it though?
There is not more than one - this is whole - so there can be not more than one thing so there is no things (plural).

Is being a thing?



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I would think that if you were in "nothing" that you would move more freely because there would be no resistance to your movement. If you were unable to move then "something" would be preventing said movement, therefore "nothing" would in fact be "something". Perhaps there is no such thing as "nothing".



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Perhaps there is no such thing as "nothing".



But where would things appear? Maybe, there is just darkness seeing light.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
[...]
If there was ever a time of nothingness, there would still be nothing because this state wouldn't have the qualities necessary to move aside to allow the universe to fill it in.

Seeing as the universe exists, it proves that a realm of nothingness has never existed. There had to have always been something. So, that something (quantum particles, waves, or even something before that we don't know about yet) was not created and has always existed.

Thanks for reading.
edit on 5/28/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


This highlights my contention that consciousness is primal. Rudimentary consciousness can exist simultaneously with nothing. You might find the book by Lynn Grabhorn, "Dear God, What's Happening to Us?" interesting.

Also, nothingness can stop being nothingness. Not-being shouldn't be confused with being nothing.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by seamus

Not-being shouldn't be confused with being nothing.

Non existence and existence go together as one - the fear of non existence keeps one from feeling whole. Non existence is what I am and until I know it, I will fear not being because I do not see that being is both existence and non existence (at the same time - presently as this).
edit on 29-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:37 AM
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If you have a absolute infinite empty space, you have just one infinite dimension of just one infinte energy source.

This would be the absolute nothingness. The very beginning.

This absolute infinite empty space must have all the atributes of our existence. Because it formed our finite existence.

Does it have intelligence "YES". A absolute empty infinite space is a absolute constant. It will never change randomly.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Intersting point. I spend a lot of time wondering what nothing really is. It can twist your mind in circles lol.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Visceral
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Intersting point. I spend a lot of time wondering what nothing really is. It can twist your mind in circles lol.

The mind will not be able to find nothing because the mind appears in nothing.
What is a thought? Can you grasp one? Are thoughts not just just wisps of nothing appearing in nothing and then disappearing back into nothing?



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Visceral
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Intersting point. I spend a lot of time wondering what nothing really is. It can twist your mind in circles lol.

The mind will not be able to find nothing because the mind appears in nothing.
What is a thought? Can you grasp one? Are thoughts not just just wisps of nothing appearing in nothing and then disappearing back into nothing?


I agree to this. Our mind is blank until we either feel, hear, see or smell something.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Visceral
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Intersting point. I spend a lot of time wondering what nothing really is. It can twist your mind in circles lol.

The mind will not be able to find nothing because the mind appears in nothing.
What is a thought? Can you grasp one? Are thoughts not just just wisps of nothing appearing in nothing and then disappearing back into nothing?


I agree to this. Our mind is blank until we either feel, hear, see or smell something.

If we believe something the mind speaks then the body will react. That will then make the mind speak some more about stopping the sensation felt in the body. Running from the scene to one more satisfying is what the mind tries to provide - it denies what is actually happening.
Seeing the vision, smelling the fragrance, hearing the noise, feeling the sensational instrument that is playing the tune of life is the kingdom revealed but going to the mind to cure the experience is the problem.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by HarryTZ
 




I want you to respond to it the way YOU want to respond to it.

This is literally a proven scientific fact. All matter descends into nothingness. It's not just empty space I'm talking about either. It is, in fact, the absence of both space AND time. Nonlocal nothingness.


This whole idea sounds like nothing to me.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by jiggerj
 





There had to have always been something.



Yeah,

An intelligence that has always existed,

outside of space and time.

Outside the physical universe.

It is the only way.....
edit on 28-5-2013 by dusty1 because: (no reason given)


The only way you can imagine. Certainly does not mean it is the only explanation.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




When I move my hand I am pushing air out of the way. I can do this because air is SOMETHING. Air has qualities that can be manipulated. Also, as I move my hand, the air behind it is filling in the space that my hand previously occupied. I can make the same hand movements in all the other gases, in water, in oatmeal... And all of those substances will fill in the space that my hand previously occupied. If a substance is too hard for my hand to move through, then I can use a drill to move through it. Everything is SOMETHING that has qualities that can be manipulated.

These are examples of what you perceive. Other people can be with you and sense something completely different than what you do.
Some people see things that others don't. This can be explained away by hallucinations, due to psychoactive drugs or mental illness.
When you can prove that what you see and hear are real, the example will work. Concluding that it is real because other people's perceptions concur with yours doesn't work either.... mass hallucination.





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