Chinese hackers access major weapons systems

How do we know this wasn't just falsified intelligence? Planted info has been used throughout history many of times. what better way to screw over your enemy then to give them incorrect blueprints, take out a screw here, less support over there, label a few circuits wrong. Next thing you know the Chinese just dumped countless man hours and billions of dollars into a 20 ton paper weight.

I was listening to a radio program a while back and they were talking about how a lot of facilities are completely closed circuit. I highly doubt most government secrets are that easy to come by.

reply to post by bigcountry08


The problem isn't always the government servers, it's the contractors and subcontractors. The main contractor has to email the subcontractor the plans and the updates, and the subcontractors have to email the contractors with their updates, etc. Which means that at some point the plans are on a hackable computer. The primary contractor may have great security, but all it takes is one less than secure subcontractor, and it all gets out.

Isn't this an act of war?

or am I mistaken?

reply to post by bigcountry08


That's a very good question. The fact that someone knew what plans were stolen and also knew China did it speaks volumes. Also, someone in authority released the story to the press. This makes me wonder about two things:

if this was a serious threat to our nation's security it would be hushed immediately. What would someone have to gain by breaking this story?

Also, if a hacker is good enough to compromise a secure government system he should be good enough to cover his tracks. He should be in and out without a trace, so to speak. Were they baited? Or is this part of some sort of propaganda to make China look bad in the world's eyes?

Well, they know that we have found their flawed chips that they sold to the DoD and could be trying to figure out what systems are still compromised. It takes quite awhile to replace them all after all.

I’m sure that would be quite the intel coup, just in itself.

why do they hook computers with sensitive information to the web? Can't they work off line,then upload thru a second system? Then the second system would be a "firewall",as its only used to send,not store secure info.I'm not a puter guy,but it makes sense to me.....ooop's,forgot,we're talking about the gov't.

reply to post by blkcwbyhat


No, for the third or fourth time, contractors have to email things back and forth. This means access to the internet. Lockheed got hacked through their RSA SecureID system, after SecureID got hacked and a number of passcodes were stolen. Companies use VPN access all the time for people, and they found out the hard way it's not as secure as they thought.

Contractors also have to email the government changes to the programs, which include plans and blueprints. This is where a lot of stolen data comes from, through either the VPN or the email systems.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Now why would anyone have these systems available to be hacked? I mean, I would have no way that anyone could access this information from the net if I was in charge of it. This doesn't even make any sense. Same with power plants around the country, why is it even possible that anyone can hack into them, they should not be linked at all through any sort of net. We are creating a dangerous situation here, leaving everyone open to cyber attack when we do not need to be. Stupidity at high levels I guess or possibly a deliberate intent.

My thoughts exactly rickymouse.

Whoever was dumb enough to put these files on a networked system needs a serious reality check.

Isn't it about time TPTB realised one very crucial aspect of 21st century computing...NOTHING hooked up to a network is absolutely secure, and despite hundreds of millions of $'s worth of security, a kid in his or her bedroom with enough time, desire and knowledge will eventually find a weakness and a way in.

Scale that up to Chinese computer experts and almost limitless funding from 'sources' in China and you would have to be supremely conceited or hopelessly stupid to think leaving valuable plans on a networked system are totally safe.

Or...very clever....those in the know will understand.

This is a damn disgrace. Man i am so angry. Our government officials thinks it's more important to prosecute reporters than it is to go after the HOSTILE nation known as the Chinese . " We dont want anyone to steal our classified information, no no no " then we find out the Chinese stole our whole god damn arsenal.

Id be considering some serious economic, and cyber attacks on the Chinese government for this stunt, including sabotage. And a massive increase in cyber funding.

This administration is weak, sickly, and a disgrace, including those in our spy agencies and the men responsible for keeping this crap secret.

Our damn government and military heads are falling apart. No one takes responsibility for ANYTHING, they let Americans die, they prosecute reporters, they let billions of dollar worth of technological plans get stolen, and have basically UTTERLY DESTROYED some of our primary advantages in war, not to mention they cant keep their penises in their pants. The government has utterly failed in its job, and our military leaders have has well. Resignations need to take place.

---------

By the way, they have a leak. Information like this is kept on a separate network. You have to access it physically ... at least i would HOPE our government would figure out that it isnt a good idea to keep classified information as vital as this on computers hooked up to the " internet ".

reply to post by superman2012


Do you work at a drinking water plant that has fluoride added to the system? Could someone hack the system from outside and boost the fluoride by say a hundred times?

reply to post by MysterX


The Chinese seem to be interested in stealing information about design and manufacturing so they can copycat their own technology. It doesn't appear they are thinking of killing any of their customers, just increasing their customer base

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by MysterX

 

The Chinese seem to be interested in stealing information about design and manufacturing so they can copycat their own technology. It doesn't appear they are thinking of killing any of their customers, just increasing their customer base

Yeah, not right now perhaps, but later on maybe.

I don't think they'll only be interested in building their own versions either...now they have the specs of the Western advanced weaponry, it's an easy next step to design their weapon systems to exploit weaknesses and potential vulnerabilities in ours...should they decide it's going to be even more profitable if the entire world is under Chinese jackboots, and i'm not talking just economically either.

This means a lot more money is going to have to be spent on completely redesigning these weapons systems, probably from the ground up, starting from scratch again.

ANY flaws identified WILL be exploited by the Chinese, they can also guesstimate what the West will do to patch those weaknesses and work around them too.

Bloody shambles.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Now why would anyone have these systems available to be hacked? I mean, I would have no way that anyone could access this information from the net if I was in charge of it. [...] Stupidity at high levels I guess or possibly a deliberate intent.

Are you forgetting who makes the circuit boards? Has each circuit board been vetted for component function? Of course not. You could have an antenna built into the wiring lines of a board, and have a chip on there whose sole purpose is to wait for a special code, at which time it turns on a transceiver that gives TCP access to the board.

If I was able to think of that in 2002, you can bet the Chinese have thought of it.

reply to post by boncho


No but they have plenty of Methamphetamine

China is hacking our systems because that is modern spycraft. It is not an act of war any more so than the US-USSR espionage was. During the cold war we caught plenty of Russian spies, and Russia caught plenty of US spies. In those days you needed a person in the office with a little camera to steal a document. This hacking is the same thing, just done remotely. I am sure we do the same thing to them. Only the most hawkish person would argue that espionage is an act of war that demands retaliation between nuclear-armed superpowers.

I question how valuable the information really is. If an enemy steals something crucial it seems unwise to announce that they did so. Better to let them try to figure out what its value is, or wonder if it has any. It leads me to believe that these announcements are really about raising fear among US citizens about foreign hackers to justify greater government control over net traffic. It is a preparation for another controversy like the Patriot act phone tapping, which was justified as necessary to prevent terrorist plotting. The feds will claim that they NEED to monitor net traffic to prevent foreign espionage, and it will eventually lead to a "Great Firewall" in the US.

It does not matter how much information the Chinese acquire through espionage. It will not justify an attack on the US within their government, because such an attack would be disastrous for their economy. If China defeats the US it will be due to superior economic power and diplomatic ties, not military force. They are making friends while we continue to make enemies, and they are supplying the world's manufacturing needs while doing so. Why would they want to mess that up?

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni



I think its safe to say that China has a copy of most of our intellectual property.

Further, most of those systems are old and they had the info years ago.

Originally posted by LastStarfighter
Further, most of those systems are old and they had the info years ago.

Almost all of the systems they're getting information on are brand new systems currently under development.

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by LastStarfighter
Further, most of those systems are old and they had the info years ago.

Almost all of the systems they're getting information on are brand new systems currently under development.

edit on 5/28/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

The osprey blackhawk and F18 are old as you now. Maybe they just have the most recent specs on the newest versions of these. China looks at the USA a military joke. They learned it in Vietnam.

reply to post by LastStarfighter


You're thinking about the original A models of them. The E/F Hornet is as different from the A/B Hornet as the F-15 is from the F-16. Same for the others. They look very similar to the original versions, but if you look at their capabilities and systems, you can't take a tech from a UH-60A, toss him at a UH-60M, and expect him to be able to fix it right off the bat without retraining.

You dont think they keep the good stuff on the servers do ya?
I realize Military Intelligence is an oxymoron but they aren't idiots.

China got exactly what they wanted them to have.