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Simple question re: homosexuality

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posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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I think the simplest argument for Christian folk is this;

Does it say in the bible that if someone sins and you have not directly caused them to sin you are going to hell? If it does, no-one at all stands a chance of getting into heaven, because we would all collectively be held responsible for all of humanity's failings.

I seem to remember something more along the lines of 'remove the plank from your eye before removing the speck from mine" in there.

We do not strictly follow the old testament these days anyways. When was the last time a good old stoning to the death was had in a Christian nation? When was the last time someone was persecuted for wearing clothes of mixed fibre? Both these things among others are in the bible and we don't act on them....

Quite simply, there is religious belief and law and there is secular (every day non religious) belief and law.

I will even quote some bible that shows Jesus knew of and endorsed secular law (in the example given, they are talking paying taxes to Caesar)



Matthew 22:20-22
King James Version (KJV)
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


So it is entirely possible for a Christian to have gay marriage in society and still retain their 'moral fibre'
edit on 27-5-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-5-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





Seriously, people who are more concerned what goes on in others bedrooms are seriously lacking in hobbies.


Or lack anything of interest going on in their bedroom.
People have always wanted to tell others what to do, when to do it and most importantly Who to do it to. If you don't fit their mold, they think you're broken.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



And this, right here, is as succinct as it gets.


What exactly do you want now, OP? You asked “What is so scary about gay marriage?” and I told you. It’s almost like you want me to advocate for your gay tendencies. Why do you need everyone’s approval?


Are you insecure in your sexuality?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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I'm Christian. Let people do what they want. If God really has a problem with it he will tell them.

My view? God made everyone exactly how he wanted them.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I know many christians who are not opposed to gay marriage. Many.

Many Christians aren't opposed to going to hell as well...

VERY few "Christians" ever make it to Heaven:


Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Jesus explained, “Sesame! In order for someone to be saved, they must believe and receive me sincerely deep into their hearts, but most importantly it is crucial to have a sincere heart and mind. Many who have received me end up in hell, because during the prayer of confession they simply recited the prayer without sincerity!”

Jesus also said, “Many profess they have accepted and proclaimed me into their hearts, and with their mouths believe that they are saved, since they’ve believed in me for a long time, but, it is not the length of time that determines your salvation. It is the process of bearing fruits in your character that leads you closer to attaining salvation.

Many believe blindly the incorrect teaching that simply reciting with their mouths will guarantee their salvation -- and are under an illusion that they will go to heaven. Salvation should be realized through fear and trembling and each individual must grow in sincere faith.” Jesus is heartbroken and frustrated that so many souls end up in hell because they believed erroneously.

Baptize by Blazing Fire

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.
Placebo by Howard Pittman



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



And this, right here, is as succinct as it gets.


What exactly do you want now, OP? You asked “What is so scary about gay marriage?” and I told you. It’s almost like you want me to advocate for your gay tendencies. Why do you need everyone’s approval?


Are you insecure in your sexuality?

I dont want you to do anything, outside of at least acknowledging that what you have said is simply untrue. I was hoping for a real conversation on the topic. Instead i get lies like "marriage is a christian thing".

Nice attempt to turn it around, though. Ive been in a relationship for going on a decade, with a woman. Tell me now, what bearing does that have on anything? Pretty sad tactic there....

Look, though, I can play that game too....are you so opposed to gay marriage because you are insecure in YOUR sexuality?

Its amazing how, when this topic comes up, its seems the IQ of many people automatically drops by about 50 points.
edit on 27-5-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:01 PM
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I think gay marriage needs a lot more thought before being allowed.

hear me out. This is not some regulation that can be pulled back and forth.
This is a fundamental part of civilized society that is kept balanced by the law
that state a union should be between a man and a woman. Its how we survive
as a species.

First of all homosexuality is a sexual preference. As bad as it sounds some people
have a thang for farm animals.... that could end up in a difficult divorse case.

Awareness for excepting gay relationships is awesome. Being able to love both
species equally is more awesome. Equal love from both genders till adulthood is
something every child should br exposed to... in order to be more awesome.

Gay parents can make good parents. As far as providing for them I am certain
they would make excellent guardians. For now I will not deny that there are
plenty of abandoned children that could use a good home.

Im not sure what sort of success gay couples have had adopting children but
I believe it is something we should consider.... for now. I would not consider
that a perminent solution. We should be workimg on fixing broken homes, not
retreating to a constingency plan.

Secondly, Mark my words, If we completely allow gay marriage today...
We are less than 20 years from GMH (genectically modified humans)
This could be a quick way in the back door (pardon the pun
by using gay
couples desires to use latest medical technology to share genes in their offspring.

Thirdly, the general population is getting totally screwed by many
laws that should be changed. There has been massive hype in the last
10 years focused on changing how people think about gays. When will
we see that level of hype over changing how people feel about FORCED
taxation and an absolutely INSANE intrest based fractional reserve bankimg?

Call me ignorant. Im sure many will. But thats how I see it.











edit on 27-5-2013 by FirstCasualty because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

Whatever you want to call it is fine…..but it isn’t marriage!


Yes it is.

Religion does not have a monopoly on the word marriage, it is a legal contract between two people. The wedding ceremony in a church is religious, and is not a requirement. You can marry without any ceremony, so it can't be a religious institution.

Marriage is a civil, not religious, institution

You shouldn't even have an opinion on this from a religious perspective, it's none of your business what other people do. You have no right on a religious basis to deny other people their rights. Have you forgotten forgive and forget?


edit on 5/27/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 
That made me laugh!The Birdcage...lolol.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



I dont want you to do anything, outside of at least acknowledging that what you have said is simply untrue. I was hoping for a real conversation on the topic. Instead i get lies like "marriage is a christian thing".

The sanctity of marriage is what’s being protected! You asked…I answerd. Now you want something else.




Nice attempt to turn it around, though. Ive been in a relationship for going on a decade, with a woman. Tell me now, what bearing does that have on anything? Pretty sad tactic there....

Not a tactic at all…simply a question. Are you insecure? You seem to want assurance that your position on this is the right one.




Look, though, I can play that game too....are you so opposed to gay marriage because you are insecure in YOUR sexuality?

I’ve said 10 times….I’m not opposed to anything except the use of the term marriage when referring to a gay union. That’s your hang up to deal with.



Its amazing how, when this topic comes up, its seems the IQ of many people automatically drops by about 50 points.

I don’t hold it against you that you can’t comprehend my FIRST POST!



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Not quite so.... Here is a sample of J.P. language for a non-Church marriage in Denton County, Texas as it so happens. My first set of vows to my other half was with a J.P. and read very similar here in Missouri. We both had a minor issue with the specific wording as we'd both taken Wiccan Faith by that point in our lives...but said nothing. After all, tolerance is a two way street.

Still, the current "State" ceremony isn't non-secular as that has come to be defined and perhaps it really ought to be. After all, Gays aren't the only ones who would prefer it be a straight (No pun intended) and true legal status issue with the State for rights, and nothing more.

Denton County, Texas Wedding Vows by Justice of the Peace



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I believe the man can question the controversy without worrying about his sexuality.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 



Yes it is.

Religion does not have a monopoly on the word marriage, it is a legal contact between two people.


A legal contract between two people is called a CONTRACT.

When a MAN and a WOMAN engage in Holy Matrimony it’s recognized by 250 MILLION AMERICANS as a MARRIAGE.

You guys are so concerned about a word! What is your problem? Is it acceptance? Do you need a hug?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

The sanctity of marriage is what’s being protected! You asked…I answerd. Now you want something else.



This argument is something that comes up a lot. Can you please explain exactly what you mean by sanctity of marriage?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 





The sanctity of marriage is what’s being protected! You asked…I answerd. Now you want something else.


I dont know what you have in your head, but I dont want anything from you. I asked a legitimate question, and got untruths as an answer. Im sorry if it hurt your feelings to be called out on a lie.




Not a tactic at all…simply a question. Are you insecure? You seem to want assurance that your position on this is the right one.
It is absolutely a tactic.

I also fail to see how asking a question is asking for assurance. I am very comfortable with my position in this. I asked for legitimate answers from the opposing view. I got lies and "the bible says so", which is an answer in itself.




I’ve said 10 times….I’m not opposed to anything except the use of the term marriage when referring to a gay union. That’s your hang up to deal with.
Its not, though. Marriage is the term being used, and passed into law. So your insistence that they call it something else is actually YOUR hangup to deal with.




I don’t hold it against you that you can’t comprehend my FIRST POST!
You mean the one in which you BLATANTLY LIED?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by seabag
 


I believe the man can question the controversy without worrying about his sexuality.
Its a standard deflection tactic.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


It doesn't really matter what the vows are, they are not compulsory. You can write your own. What you showed me is just the standard, traditional, wedding vows.

What makes a marriage legal is the contract. So legally it's a civil agreement, the church part is not a requirement.

Gay marriage will have no effect on religious ceremonies.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

The sanctity of marriage is what’s being protected! You asked…I answerd. Now you want something else.


You have got to be joking me. Marriage in America is already the furthest thing from sanctified; global news of divorces after 72 hours, people comitting adultry like it's what they were bred to do, spousal swap parties, Ashley Madison.com ... and you want to protect the semantics from 2 people who love eachother?

Get your priorities "straight".

Also, if you want to try to define marriage, you might want to read more than 1 book before considering yourself the slightest bit scholarly. Marriage has been around since long before Christianity ever existed.
edit on 27-5-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Well, you can speak to what your state does but I can tell you that my state did not present the ceremony before His Honor in His Honor's Chambers as being optional in the least. Nor were the two legally required witnesses we had to have there to sign the paperwork for the state issued license of Marriage. I'm explaining what we did, using the least ceremonial options legally permitted. The vows, as presented to us as required by Missouri, read very similar to that.

Now you can tell me which state you mean for specific procedure, but I'm describing a first hand experience here and not something I just read about. If the specific words the witnesses were required to watch us say were different, it wasn't in any material way from the Denton County set above.
edit on 27-5-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
A legal contract between two people is called a CONTRACT.

When a MAN and a WOMAN engage in Holy Matrimony it’s recognized by 250 MILLION AMERICANS as a MARRIAGE.

You guys are so concerned about a word! What is your problem? Is it acceptance? Do you need a hug?



No chit batman. The wedding contract is a state requirement, a religious ceremony isn't.

Hmm seems to me you have the hang up. I am simply trying to get you to see that religion does not own marriage, so using that as an excuse to hate on people is wrong.

Whether something is recognised by 250 million Americans makes no difference, I fail to see how that is even a valid argument.


edit on 5/27/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



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