Simple question re: homosexuality

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Please, back that statement up with numbers (and no, fundies is not my term, nor is it a new term)

The MAJORITY of Americans are not “fundies” but we believe in the sanctity of marriage.

Christianity is ranked the largest religion in the world today. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010 there were 2.18 billion Christians around the world, nearly a third of the global population.
Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (2010)

US adherents - 247 million in 2010

christianity.about.com...

Originally posted by kimar
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

You shouldn't judge others or take aways other's rights based on delusions.

GOD judges i am just trying to understand. It is very clear to most that he does not want punishment in the church. Many have gone against his will.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Please, back that statement up with numbers (and no, fundies is not my term, nor is it a new term)

The MAJORITY of Americans are not “fundies” but we believe in the sanctity of marriage.

Christianity is ranked the largest religion in the world today. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010 there were 2.18 billion Christians around the world, nearly a third of the global population.
Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (2010)

US adherents - 247 million in 2010

christianity.about.com...

Sweet.

So, because this is the largest religious group in the world (but still only includes about 1/3 of the world population) it somehow gives the right to dictate laws based on that religion?

What about the other 2/3 of the people?

And I personally know MANY christians who are perfectly ok with the idea of gay marriage, so to claim that all christians are against it (which, using the overall christian population as a defense is) is intellectually dishonest.

In the end though, no matter where this thread takes off to now, its pretty clear: The answer to the question is religious fear. People are afraid of gay marriage because of religious fear.

Just as I thought.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


If I might add in here, as it's somewhat of a pet peeve of mine as well. The VAST Majority of the United States is, in fact Christian. 75.9% of the adult population, to be precise. That is with 173 Million of out 228 Million people 18+ in the United States over all.

United States Census 1990, 2001 and 2008 Religious Makeup

Those with no religion specified, total 14.9% which include Agnostic. Atheist and simply No Religion listed for the Census forms.


When broken down by specific sect of Christian, it's shown overwhelmingly to be Catholic at over 68 million, second to Southern Baptist at just over 16 Million.

United States Census- Religious Make Up by Christian Discipline & By State

It's a free country and as much free to have no faith at all as to be the most devout follower of whatever one chooses as they wish to become. The fallacy that people of Faith are not the vast majority does get a bit tiresome though. Numbers are what they are and our nation is what it is.

reply to post by captaintyinknots




I'm not afraid of Gays calling their union anything they want and if they want to call it marriage...fine.

Gays should be allowed to Marry. Why should they be spared the misery that heterosexuals have to endure.

I think the divorce rate in America will bare me out.

www.mckinleyirvin.com...

"till death do us part".............that's funny

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I was not saying the vast majority arent christian. I was asking for proof that the vast majority oppose gay marriage. Big difference.

Originally posted by Ghost375
I think it will have a negative impact on our society, esp. on the minds of children. our society is already pretty messed up. I can't see how this won't worsen things.

We just need to give them something where they have the same tax deductions and stuff, but call it something else.

Please provide a single piece of evidence that gay marriage has a negative impact on society, especially children. There are 14 or so countries in the world that allow gay marriage, so you have many examples to get your evidence from.

I think the exact opposite of what your said is true. Gay marriage is good for society and children. I live in Canada and we legalized gay marriage in 2005. Since then homophobia is not nearly as rampant as it was and is becoming less and less evident every year. Gay marriage allows everybody else so see that gays and lesbians want what everybody wants - to love, be loved, and be accepted. This decreases ignorance and thus hate, which is great for society. Kids can grow up in an environment where there is a bit less hate, which is awesome for their personal growth. The more love that they are exposed to the better chance they will grow up to be loving and successful members of society.

Speaking from personal experience, if I had grown up in a society that had gay marriage, I would have been exposed to the idea that being gay was an ok thing. Instead I spent my pre-teen and teenage years passionately hating myself and wanting to be straight so very badly; there really are no words to accurately describe how badly. In the long run my struggle helped me to become a more understanding, empathetic, and stronger person, but I was living through a personal hell for many years. It was honestly torture. Because we are a more accepting society, not many kids will go through what I did, and trust me, thats great.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I was not saying the vast majority arent christian. I was asking for proof that the vast majority oppose gay marriage. Big difference.

Is it? A devout follower of the Christian faith might have a fair point in debating that there is a difference on Religious and/or Moral grounds. I don't personally know of a Christian in real life who is approving of the Gay lifestyle or Marriage. That doesn't mean they are hateful or openly hostile and I don't know any that are that way, either. Approving though? Well... I do live in the buckle of the Bible Belt in terms of Bible Colleges and study centers. That could have something to do with it.

World wide, by the way, numbers are numbers and national trends are what they are. Christian and Islam form the 2 world religions first and foremost by a long shot...with over a Billion followers each. I'd say, off hand, the Gay community needs to give tolerance as much as expecting it. Just my personal feelings

(Source: The Pew Forum)

The world isn't always the way some might assume, indeed.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

So, because this is the largest religious group in the world (but still only includes about 1/3 of the world population) it somehow gives the right to dictate laws based on that religion?

What about the other 2/3 of the people?

DUDE!! REALLY??

For the other 2/3…CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE and move on!

Why do you feel the need to claim what’s ours? It's just a WORD. Are gays that petty? Christians are!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I know many christians who are not opposed to gay marriage. Many.

To be considered a christian, does one have to be devout? Not at all. I would go so far as to guess that the majority of christians out there are not 'devout'. Using the religious numbers as though they somehow represent overall sentiment on gay marriage is flat out dishonest.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Ever train a dog to not pee on the carpet. and then when it does by little or not real fault of its own.. maybe its nervous or wasent let out and you pick up a newspaper the creature winces?

Gay people is that newspaper.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

In the end though, no matter where this thread takes off to now, its pretty clear: The answer to the question is religious fear. People are afraid of gay marriage because of religious fear.

Why would a religious person fear gays? That makes no sense!

It’s gays that have fear and insecurity. The rest of us are just preserving our heritage.

Hey, whatever makes you feel like you won something tonight!

reply to post by seabag

DUDE!! REALLY?? For the other 2/3…CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE and move on! Why do you feel the need to claim what’s ours? It's just a WORD. Are gays that petty? Christians are!

And here we come back to the part where you criticized me for 'disregarding' you. The problem is that chrisitans have no monopoly on marriage. It predates christianity. That they adopted it into their religion does not give them sole propriety over it. It is only in the selfish minds of certain christians that they think they do.

Should muslims call it something different? Should hindu's? Buddhists?

I'm fairly religious. Episcopal.

I just think people (adults) should be free to marry whomever they wish.

Call it marriage. Call it grape soda. I don't care.

It won't affect my marriage. My relationship.

My marriage is based on ourselves (me and my wife). Not on others relationships.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

I know many christians who are not opposed to gay marriage. Many.

Dude!!! I showed you a graph that supports this and I admitted it!

CALL IT something ELSE and the PROBLEMS subside. Are you thick?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

In the end though, no matter where this thread takes off to now, its pretty clear: The answer to the question is religious fear. People are afraid of gay marriage because of religious fear.

Why would a religious person fear gays? That makes no sense!

It’s gays that have fear and insecurity. The rest of us are just preserving our heritage.

Hey, whatever makes you feel like you won something tonight!

"preserving your heritage" and ignoring actual history.

Its not about winning, btw. I want an answer. And I am getting it, loud and clear.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I know many christians who are not opposed to gay marriage. Many.

Dude!!! I showed you a graph that supports this and I admitted it!

CALL IT something ELSE and the PROBLEMS subside. Are you thick?

'Dude" did you notice that that response was to another poster? Are you thick?


I could easily say "get over your fear of it and the problem subsides". Please, tell me you see the selfishness in such a statement....

Originally posted by beezzer
I'm fairly religious. Episcopal.

I just think people (adults) should be free to marry whomever they wish.

Call it marriage. Call it grape soda. I don't care.

It won't affect my marriage. My relationship.

My marriage is based on ourselves (me and my wife). Not on others relationships.

And this, right here, is as succinct as it gets.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I know many christians who are not opposed to gay marriage. Many.

To be considered a christian, does one have to be devout? Not at all. I would go so far as to guess that the majority of christians out there are not 'devout'. Using the religious numbers as though they somehow represent overall sentiment on gay marriage is flat out dishonest.

I'm glad you know some who are accepting beyond simply tolerant. That isn't how I read the Bible I was raised to know, but there again, it's a subject of great debate in our times, overall, for how that is interpreted. Right now, I have no doubt your statement is as valid and truthful as mine for those you know that are fine with it. Entire parishes of Christian Churches have broken away on the issue. It's not as clean as anyone would like, to be sure.

Now eventually, it's going to come around to the fact that people just don't have a number for Christians as a whole that believe that area of theology vs. those who don't in any form which is reliable. In the end, it looks to come down to a difference of areas of the nation/States and values within them.

If the Marriage title was dropped from the debate and the simple legal rights being equal were honestly the focus to maintain here? I think the states with any issues at all would drop dramatically. It's not the end result but how it's being demanded to happen which gets a good % of people's backs up, IMO.