Simple question re: homosexuality

reply to post by SQUEALER

The whole objective behind the movement to call "gay unions" a "marriage" is to destroy the traditional concept of "marriage" by denying heterosexuals the right to conceive.

Please, I beg you, back this statement up. Please. I truly cannot wait.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I think your definition of "fear" is far too broad. I've never in my life met anyone who was afraid of one of those people. I have however, met plenty who were irritated, annoyed, disliked or felt that lifestyle contributed to a moral decline of society.

BTW...I am not Christian...or religious for that matter. Sure, those on the right happen to also be on the opposition of gays and gay marriage but, you'd be surprised how many independent and liberal voters out there aren't being as vocal. Make no mistake...they are out there in very very large numbers. Me, I have no problem saying what I think.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


there are many gay men who are not wussies, they are masculine looking, you would never know they are gay.

Originally posted by WilliamOckham
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Nobody fears gay marriage and there is no such thing as homophobia. That is a term/idea really only meant to make people feel better about themselves. Fear is not what drives the opposition to it. However, many believe that it is not conducive to normal society to encourage homosexual behavior & that the negatives of it far outweigh any benefits (if any.). That's what it comes down to. I have no stake in it but, I certainly don't want the subject discussed in my kids preschool and kindergarten classes (As has happened in California) so, I shed no tears if my country (United States) continues to strongly oppose it. I'm perfectly fine with it. Also, men acting like wusses really irritates me...specially, in public or on television so, I'm all for eliminating them from view.

and i don't like Men acting like alpha male chauvinistic prats, so we can eliminate them from view too correct?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

What is so scary about gay marriage?

Marriage, as we know it today, is an institution that was invented long ago by the earliest versions of 'The Church' to assure control of royal bloodlines. At the time... in what we call The Dark Ages, the nobility of the day (males) were sowing a helluva lot of wild oats. This led to just a lot of contenders and pretenders to the various thrones of Europe.

Our current understanding of joining was invented so that The Church could assure that those con/pretenders to the various royal houses were legit.

Prior to that, marriages varied in form from region to region. In some places, a male could have many wives and this made sense as males were in short supply. Wars took heavy tolls on the population of men... leaving females in a vast majority. Boys being boys, having a choice of many legal sleep overs was a good thing.

A semi-modern example can be seen following WW1, where France, England and Germany had seen their male populations so devastated by war that women of child-bearing age were basically... 'left to rot on the vine short of some law allowing polygamy'.

So, what we call today 'marriage' roots back to the dark ages of Christian Europe. Prior to that, it was a way for warlords and power brokers to keep the ladies busy and their bedrooms full.

One other note that bears attention is that after the Black Death ravaged Europe on more than one occasion, the male/female populations rebalanced. In some respects, the plague that killed so many sort of set things right again for the Renaissance.

What does this have to do with the gay issue today? None directly but it does speak to the shallow meaning of legal binding when it is actually love that keeps the divorce lawyers at bay, lol.

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Dear Darth_Prime,

First, I thank you sincerely for your patient and respectful responses. It's always a real pleasure to find someone who will talk with me. (See my signature.)

I somehow got the impression you were talking about eduction, either by the schools or by parents. I was interested in that topic primarily because it was different from where these conversations usually go. I agree with you that schools shouldn't make kids pray. The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't bother me very much, and I'm willing to have religion taught if it's in a broad overview, comparing the religions of the world. Sure, that would be sensitive and have to be done carefully, but a knowledge of religion is useful.

i'm saying as a populace, as a world we should be engaged in "Equality"

You're right, but people have different ideas of what equality means. One side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry anyone they want." Another side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry as many people as they want." Yet a third side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry one person of the opposite sex." And then the arguments start.

The third side people say that gays already have the same rights as straights. Even the word "rights" is a tough one. If marriage is a right, why does everyone have to apply for a government license? And if the governmant can turn down a couple, is it still a right? Or do we have to wait for the Supreme Court to tell us if it's a right or not?

I don't mind teaching kids to be intolerant, IF it's something they should be intolerant of.

No person should ever abuse another person, but i don't think you're talking about person on person abuse. I think, but I could be wrong, that you're claiming about government abuse. I can understand your point about goverment discrimination, the argument is whether it's justified. I'm not sure I understand about government abuse. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Anyway, thanks again for talking with me.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by WilliamOckham

I think your definition of "fear" is far too broad. I've never in my life met anyone who was afraid of one of those people.

Like I said, look through this thread. People are AFRAID of losing their religious sanctity. People are AFRAID that there is some gay agenda. People are AFRAID that this will somehow stop straight people from procreating.

Nope, not too broad at all. It is ALL about fear.

. I have however, met plenty who were irritated, annoyed, disliked or felt that lifestyle contributed to a moral decline of society.

They FEAR that lifestyle contributes to a moral decline. There is no proof. It is an irrational FEAR.

BTW...I am not Christian...or religious for that matter. Sure, those on the right happen to also be on the opposition of gays and gay marriage but, you'd be surprised how many independent and liberal voters out there aren't being as vocal. Make no mistake...they are out there in very very large numbers. Me, I have no problem saying what I think.

And yet, they are in the minority....

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by SQUEALER

 

The whole objective behind the movement to call "gay unions" a "marriage" is to destroy the traditional concept of "marriage" by denying heterosexuals the right to conceive.

Please, I beg you, back this statement up. Please. I truly cannot wait.

Maybe the lefts fascination with abortions and gay marriage is part of the plan to “thin the herd” so to speak. This could be reverse psychology whereby the elites get the population control they’ve long sought. The beauty of this plan is not only do they get little resistance from the population but the schmucks who will be thinned are actually doing all the hard work for them!

I've changed my position! I'm now PRO gay marriage!

Originally posted by seabag
Maybe the lefts fascination with abortions and gay marriage is part of the plan to “thin the herd” so to speak. This could be reverse psychology whereby the elites get the population control they’ve long sought. The beauty of this plan is not only do they get little resistance from the population but the schmucks who will be thinned are actually doing all the hard work for them!

I've changed my position! I'm now PRO gay marriage!

Even as abortions and gay marriage continue to gain wider acceptance, we continue to see a rise in the overall birthrate of our country and the world at large.

First off if you are so mad about 2 men have marriage and there fore sex. and maybe with many other guys.

if that makes you so mad. you are crazy dude. ffs. why allways see
something bad with things. ( YOU don´t LIKE)

like I don´t like being in a group and threatening or beating someone nobody dude up alone.

Because I don´t like that idea about it. so you will never see me in a group raping or what so ever. What must bad( Gangs ) groups does.

But the picture is ´TO Guys having sex or a lot of gays having sex with each other ( 5.6.7.8+10) that Can´tt Hurt You In any way. Unless you are the one getting raped. then I see there is a problem but then this is just another need, fore more Law fore Self-Defense. like Free to get Guns.

so back to the issues that I see it is not even a problem. but a Very big help fore all Straight ( like sex with a woman or more ) that is. More Gays, More Girls fore US.

FFS see the big picture. LET them to what ever they want = More Girls to the heterosexual. or Bi

STOLEN FROM THIS LINK: ((( SO READ IT PLEASE Before the rest of this text below the link. ( CHEATER!! )))

Pop quiz: Which European country has the most liberal drug laws? (Hint: It's not the Netherlands.)THIS LINK


So you have reading article before reading this ? fine.


like legalizes DRUGS Like Portugal has done too all the drugs. ffs. BE Free man. Free like a bird. Free to have sex with guys, girls. Free to buy all drugs.




WIKI PORTUGAL DRUGS

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

Even as abortions and gay marriage continue to gain wider acceptance, we continue to see a rise in the overall birthrate of our country and the world at large.

That must be all of us conservatives reproducing. It obviously isn't gays!

That's how we do it in....

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

Dear Darth_Prime,

First, I thank you sincerely for your patient and respectful responses. It's always a real pleasure to find someone who will talk with me. (See my signature.)

I somehow got the impression you were talking about eduction, either by the schools or by parents. I was interested in that topic primarily because it was different from where these conversations usually go. I agree with you that schools shouldn't make kids pray. The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't bother me very much, and I'm willing to have religion taught if it's in a broad overview, comparing the religions of the world. Sure, that would be sensitive and have to be done carefully, but a knowledge of religion is useful.

i'm saying as a populace, as a world we should be engaged in "Equality"

You're right, but people have different ideas of what equality means. One side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry anyone they want." Another side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry as many people as they want." Yet a third side might say "Everyone should equally be allowed to marry one person of the opposite sex." And then the arguments start.

The third side people say that gays already have the same rights as straights. Even the word "rights" is a tough one. If marriage is a right, why does everyone have to apply for a government license? And if the governmant can turn down a couple, is it still a right? Or do we have to wait for the Supreme Court to tell us if it's a right or not?

I don't mind teaching kids to be intolerant, IF it's something they should be intolerant of.

No person should ever abuse another person, but i don't think you're talking about person on person abuse. I think, but I could be wrong, that you're claiming about government abuse. I can understand your point about goverment discrimination, the argument is whether it's justified. I'm not sure I understand about government abuse. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Anyway, thanks again for talking with me.

With respect,
Charles1952

Indeed, Indeed.

what/who deserves intolerance? lets take New york for example, lately the increase of 'Gay Hate Crimes' has increased massively, who taught them that? or did they from birth have that inherently? where does one learn intolerance and hate? from parents, media, religion, schools etc

same with racial crimes, with any discriminative crime,, they had to gain that knowledge of hate from someone/somewhere

by saying we are ' not normal' or 'different' or don't deserve the right to marry if we want because it's 'immoral' or is desecrating the sanctity or marriage, is further providing reasons to be intolerant, it's almost normalizing hate and giving it a base reason,

i must hate him because he is *x*

if i want to get married why not? and if a church wants to marry a same sex couple then that is their choice, you may disagree, but in the end it's an individual decision, if someone truly believes that us getting married is bringing on the apocalypse or the destruction of the church, or attempting to take out reproduction, help is far away for that thought process,

i also believe it's a lot more to do with the point than actual marriage,

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Even as abortions and gay marriage continue to gain wider acceptance, we continue to see a rise in the overall birthrate of our country and the world at large.

That must be all of us conservatives reproducing. It obviously isn't gays!

That's how we do it in....

Well if it's conservatives reproducing...

... you're the one making the next generation of homosexuals.

Originally posted by research100
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

there are many gay men who are not wussies, they are masculine looking, you would never know they are gay.

exactly.. they are most likely the sons or future grandsons of half of these ignorant posters.. thats the biggest laugh of all..

I'll answer your question with 1 response....

JUDGEMENT

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Dear Darth_Prime,

It seems we're drifting into the general discussion of "gay rights," and "discrimination," and even "Your big argument is religious." Now we've added the word "intolerance." Unfortunately, this quickly descends in many cases to bumper sticker slogans being tossed about and the cessation of any meaningful discussion.

I must say I admire seabag's patience. As far as I can tell, he's not punching the screen, shouting "That's not what I said!" I don't think I could respond as calmly.

Start with your comment on intolerance. We're being trained to believe that intolerance is a bad thing, even if we don't know what intolerance is. It serves as a handy swear word, like "racist." When someone says they can't tolerate Person X, what does that mean? I would argue that it almost always has no meaning whatever. Either it means "I don't like or approve of that person's behavior," Or it means "I don't want anything to do with that person." Both of those are perfectly acceptable, generally harmless reactions.

But gays are almost universally "tolerated." There is no mass drive to kill gays, even the often cited Matthew Sheppard case didn't have anything to do with sex, it was a robbery for meth money.

As far as not tolerating behavior, there must be many things we can agree on: crime, dishonesty, government corruption, naked multi-party sex in the middle of Main Street during rush hour. (Especially if you're not invited. We can properly teach not tolerating lots of things.

i must hate him because he is *x*

I can't speak for others, obviously, but that's not the case for me. It's also not the teaching of my Church.

As far as sanctity of marriage, destruction of the Church, and other religious based claims, I don't think I've made any of those. The sociological and psychological arguments seem much stronger in persuading those who are undecided or who currently accept gay marriage.

If I'm missing some of your important points, forgive me. let me know what they are and I'll take another whack at them.

With respect,
Charles1952

I guess what I do not understand is that if being gay is something you are born with, then it must be genetic. Since homosexuals cannot reproduce because of sex with their own gender, why is it that we continue to have more gays each year.

I mean as a farmer, I know that in cattle herds we can breed out bad characteristics like dwarfism. Since homosexuality is a genetic problem, we should have zero homosexuals in the world, since that bad gene would not and could not be passed down from generation to generation.

Therefore, it is my position that homosexuality is a personal decision made my a hetrosexual and the person was not "born that way". With that assumption, then we really can call a spade a spade and stop accepting ways of life that are not in fact part of the gene pool, but a personal decision of those who claim that perverted way of life.

How does it affect me? It does not, but it is contrary to the teachings of Western Civilization from which most of us sprang who reside in the U.S. today. The danger is that homosexuals prey upon others who have little if any defensive way to protect themselves.

I think such a deviant behavior, should not be acknowledged by our judicial system or morays most of us live our lives by. Those who profess homesexuality seek acceptance and support for this deviant behavior, by professing they are "different" and were born that way. If what they profess is true, then the gene's containing that trait, would have gone extinct thousands of years ago. It is a life choice, not something someone is burdened with when born. Adios Amigos. John

Originally posted by research100
" denying heteros the right to conceive is the goal"????? where do these crazy ideas come from? the bodys urge to procreate is the strongest urge in the world, in order to keep the species going, you will never stop that from happening.

Gays getting married? Where did that crazy idea come from?

Time passes, things change.

Look into the future, see what's coming "next."