Simple question re: homosexuality

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Just a quick question.

maybe you are brainwashing your kids? . . . and the ignorance you teach your children, to keep them in a closed box lack of thought and freedom, . . . you are brainwashing your children into thinking a certain way

May I assume you are equally upset that the government, through the school system, "brainwashes" children into believing that gay and straight marriages are equally valid, appropriate, and praiseworthy? To be honest, if we can't avoid some form of "brainwashing," I'd much rather have parents do it than the government.

here are a couple of things to ponder !

Computers: You wouldn’t be able to read this post on your PC because the father of modern computer science, Alan Turing, was gay.

. Everything Leonardo Da Vinci Touched: If there was no Leonardo, there’d be no “Mona Lisa” or “The Last Supper.” But art was just a part of his important contribution to society. The artist, scientist, inventor and genius conceptualized a helicopter, a tank, solar power, a calculator, and was ahead of his time in investigating plate tectonics. He is also known for inventing the hang glider, hydraulic pumps, and reversible crane mechanisms. Who knows what else Da Vinci would have been able to do if he didn’t have to waste so much time standing trial for sodomy?!

The Blues: Without 1920’s singer Ma Rainey, a lesbian, there would be no Mother of the Blues. Truly an American invention and institution, the blues are also the root of rock ‘n’ roll.

Originally posted by research100
here are a couple of things to ponder !

Computers: You wouldn’t be able to read this post on your PC because the father of modern computer science, Alan Turing, was gay.

. Everything Leonardo Da Vinci Touched: If there was no Leonardo, there’d be no “Mona Lisa” or “The Last Supper.” But art was just a part of his important contribution to society. The artist, scientist, inventor and genius conceptualized a helicopter, a tank, solar power, a calculator, and was ahead of his time in investigating plate tectonics. He is also known for inventing the hang glider, hydraulic pumps, and reversible crane mechanisms. Who knows what else Da Vinci would have been able to do if he didn’t have to waste so much time standing trial for sodomy?!

The Blues: Without 1920’s singer Ma Rainey, a lesbian, there would be no Mother of the Blues. Truly an American invention and institution, the blues are also the root of rock ‘n’ roll.

I suppose all these famous gay people just popped into existence?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

Just a quick question.

maybe you are brainwashing your kids? . . . and the ignorance you teach your children, to keep them in a closed box lack of thought and freedom, . . . you are brainwashing your children into thinking a certain way

May I assume you are equally upset that the government, through the school system, "brainwashes" children into believing that gay and straight marriages are equally valid, appropriate, and praiseworthy? To be honest, if we can't avoid some form of "brainwashing," I'd much rather have parents do it than the government.

i believe the School system brainwashes children too, but what does that have to do with marriage?

gay straight we should be teaching equality, not that I'm 'disgusting' or 'Not Normal' or i don't receive or deserve rights and treatments 'Straight' people get

One thing I've realized about ATS and gay threads is that compared to any other forum on the internet, there is always a pretty disproportionate amount of people opposing gays. This I attribute to the fact that ATS attracts a lot of fringe people, a lot of religious people and a lot of idiots.

I don't have much to say in these threads anymore. The only thing I really do now is just kick back and marvel at the haters who are becoming increasingly irrelevant as each day passes. Since they know this, this is why they're more vocal than ever - kind of like a sun dying with one last big supernova. In 100 years, their mark on history will be as "the last of the bigoted, un-evolved people." It'll be like looking back at the people who hated blacks.

Still, these haters do do a bit of a service in that their opposition serves to bring the issue further into the public eye, polarizes it and thus eventually eradicating the issue once and for all. Thanks.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

What is so scary about gay marriage? Fear is literally the only reason that people are against it (whether it be religious fear, social fear, etc). There is no other logical reason.

So, again, I ask: What is so scary about gay marriage?

Nothing is scary about it.

Marriage is a religious ceremony. Those who oppose gay marriage seek to preserve the sanctity of Holy Matrimony. Many same-sex couples are simply interested in the government's acknowledgement of their relationship. They are not asking for any religion to accept gay marriages.

SO…….Call it something else (civil union) and collect your benefits. Nobody gives a crap, really.

A marriage license is NOT a religious document. It is a document issued by your local government officials which will have a profound effect on many aspects of your life (Taxes, Insurance, Inheritance, etc...). No one of rational mind is asking for the government to force churches to perform wedding ceremonies for homosexuals.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
[ No one of rational mind is asking for the government to force churches to perform wedding ceremonies for homosexuals.

No one forcing the church to marry, but forcing all who marry, whether they be church or not, to marry equally, and not to discriminate between gay and straight. The church can simply refuse to marry anyone at all. They are within their rights to refuse to marry all, but they can't pick and choose whom to marry.

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Dear Darth_Prime,

Whether my comment had anything to do with marriage, I'll leave for others to decide. However it was a direct response to your post, addressing your point rather neatly, I thought.

i believe the School system brainwashes children too, . . . gay straight we should be teaching equality,

I hope you can see that your position is neither obvious nor non-controversial. You are saying, politely, that the government should use it's school system to indocrinate children into beliefs about marriage and sexuality that their parents are strongly opposed to, based on morality, science, or both. And why should the government do this? To make sure there is future political support for one side of an extremely contentious issue is certainly one reason.

You are asking the government to repeat, over and over, that homosexuality, and all it's attendant features, is perfectly fine, moral, praiseworthy, and an acceptable model. Are you willing to allow equal emphasis for the other side of the issue, that it's not any of those things? Of course not. Indeed, teachers who attempt to present both sides are disciplined. Freedom, choice, and tolerance are not to be allowed if it concerns one's opponents, eh?

Your original point was about brainwashing, so was your response to me. I hope you'll forgive me for continuing in that vein.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
[ No one of rational mind is asking for the government to force churches to perform wedding ceremonies for homosexuals.

No one forcing the church to marry, but forcing all who marry, whether they be church or not, to marry equally, and not to discriminate between gay and straight. The church can simply refuse to marry anyone at all. They are within their rights to refuse to marry all, but they can't pick and choose whom to marry.

Actually, any church can deny a wedding service to anyone for any reason.

Race.
Age.
Sexual Orientation.
Priest doesn't like you.
Priest wants your fiance.

And the government of the United States cannot do anything about it.

Gay marriage...human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Put me in the "I don't get why it's a big deal" camp. It's only fair...I can marry "Jane" then you can marry "Jane", if you can marry "John" then I can too.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

Dear Darth_Prime,

Whether my comment had anything to do with marriage, I'll leave for others to decide. However it was a direct response to your post, addressing your point rather neatly, I thought.

i believe the School system brainwashes children too, . . . gay straight we should be teaching equality,

I hope you can see that your position is neither obvious nor non-controversial. You are saying, politely, that the government should use it's school system to indocrinate children into beliefs about marriage and sexuality that their parents are strongly opposed to, based on morality, science, or both. And why should the government do this? To make sure there is future political support for one side of an extremely contentious issue is certainly one reason.

You are asking the government to repeat, over and over, that homosexuality, and all it's attendant features, is perfectly fine, moral, praiseworthy, and an acceptable model. Are you willing to allow equal emphasis for the other side of the issue, that it's not any of those things? Of course not. Indeed, teachers who attempt to present both sides are disciplined. Freedom, choice, and tolerance are not to be allowed if it concerns one's opponents, eh?

Your original point was about brainwashing, so was your response to me. I hope you'll forgive me for continuing in that vein.

With respect,
Charles1952

i said nothing about the schools teaching anything, i was unschooled, i'm saying as a populace, as a world we should be engaged in "Equality"

"i am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

the government shouldn't use the school system to teach religion, or to make kids say the pledge of allegiance or pray,


you can believe Homosexuality is 'Immoral' but when it becomes discrimination, when we get discriminated and abused, when we don't receive the same rights as a 'Straight person' than it becomes something different, and it becomes intolerant, and children are being taught intolerance,

belief is a 'Self', indeed, we cannot control what people believe or don't believe, but we can control how we get treated as 'Humans'

same as if you were not allowed certain places because you are 'Straight' or not allowed certain 'Rights' or 'Privileges' based solely because you are Straight

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
[ No one of rational mind is asking for the government to force churches to perform wedding ceremonies for homosexuals.

No one forcing the church to marry, but forcing all who marry, whether they be church or not, to marry equally, and not to discriminate between gay and straight. The church can simply refuse to marry anyone at all. They are within their rights to refuse to marry all, but they can't pick and choose whom to marry.

Actually, any church can deny a wedding service to anyone for any reason.

Race.
Age.
Sexual Orientation.
Priest doesn't like you.
Priest wants your fiance.

And the government of the United States cannot do anything about it.

That may be true in the US today. Gay marriage is still illegal there. But, in other parts of the world, this is the reality...

www.lifesitenews.com...

Denmark forces churches to perform same-sex ‘marriages’

COPENHAGEN, DENMARK, June 7, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) – The nation of Denmark has voted to force churches in the established Evangelical Lutheran Church to perform same-sex “marriage” ceremonies inside their sanctuaries, although one-third of all the denomination’s priests say they will not participate in such rituals.

Danish parliament voted by an overwhelming 85-24 margin to compel churches to carry out unions for same-sex couples that are identical to heterosexual marriage celebrations.

etc..

so, it's only a matter of time, until gay unions are accepted as "marriage" that all will have to follow the same plan.

To use a well-worn English expression, "Am I bovvered?"

Not really.

But I think people are beginning to sense that this issue is but one item on the itinerary of the globalists' brave new world agenda...and it's really that reason which is the cause of much of the angst.

What next? Who knows.

Even David Cameron - the British prime minister - has been enthusiastically pushing to get gay marriage on the statute book.

The prime minister - the CONSERVATIVE prime minister - is enthusiastic about gay marriage!

He's such a cheer leader for gay marriage that his own back bench MPs have recently urged him to tone it down because it's so unpopular with conservative voters, and they fear it could lose them the next general election.

Go figure...

are you saying that i am part of the Globalist Agenda?

when did humans stop being humans?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Nobody fears gay marriage and there is no such thing as homophobia. That is a term/idea really only meant to make people feel better about themselves. Fear is not what drives the opposition to it. However, many believe that it is not conducive to normal society to encourage homosexual behavior & that the negatives of it far outweigh any benefits (if any.). That's what it comes down to. I have no stake in it but, I certainly don't want the subject discussed in my kids preschool and kindergarten classes (As has happened in California) so, I shed no tears if my country (United States) continues to strongly oppose it. I'm perfectly fine with it. Also, men acting like wusses really irritates me...specially, in public or on television so, I'm all for eliminating them from view.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


So you're an "anti government anarchist" about everything else...just not that?

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
Gay marriage...human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Put me in the "I don't get why it's a big deal" camp. It's only fair...I can marry "Jane" then you can marry "Jane", if you can marry "John" then I can too.

I can have sex with Jane, and conceive Bob, who will grow up and become a productive member of society.

It's unfair, that I can't have sex with John, and conceive too.

What can we do about this?

I know God or Nature, whichever you prefer, designed thing this way, but we are men, and don't have to accept God's plan or Nature's design, we are creative and inventive, and can write our own law. So, let's "fix this problem".


Let's have a law that says straight couples are not allowed to conceive, because gay couples naturally can't. We need this law, to get real "equal rights".


The whole objective behind the movement to call "gay unions" a "marriage" is to destroy the traditional concept of "marriage" by denying heterosexuals the right to conceive.

Let no man be deceived, the goal is the total destruction of marriage.

reply to post by WilliamOckham

Nobody fears gay marriage

One need look no further than this very thread to prove this statement false.

and there is no such thing as homophobia

See my reply above.

That is a term/idea really only meant to make people feel better about themselves

...or to call out bigots

. Fear is not what drives the opposition to it.

Bull. Honky.

However, many believe that it is not conducive to normal society to encourage homosexual behavior & that the negatives of it far outweigh any benefits (if any.).

What negatives are those?

That's what it comes down to.

No, its not. What it mostly comes down to is religious indoctrination, and fear that which is not the same as you.

I have no stake in it but, I certainly don't want the subject discussed in my kids preschool and kindergarten classes (As has happened in California) so, I shed no tears if my country (United States) continues to strongly oppose it.

The country is not strongly opposed to it. In fact, those that are opposed are rapidly becoming a rather small minority.

I'm perfectly fine with it.

I get the feeling this isnt true, but that is neither here nor there.

Also, men acting like wusses really irritates me...specially, in public or on television so, I'm all for eliminating them from view.

Originally posted by CJCrawley
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

So you're an "anti government anarchist" about everything else...just not that?

Just not what? i don't think i've said anything that contradicts my 'Anti government Anarchist self'

" denying heteros the right to conceive is the goal"????? where do these crazy ideas come from? the bodys urge to procreate is the strongest urge in the world, in order to keep the species going, you will never stop that from happening.