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Simple question re: homosexuality

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posted on May, 28 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
My question is, when to guys get divorced, who gets shafted with the alimony payments? It's a divorce lawyer's nightmare.


That would be whoever didn't get custody of the adopted children, or whoever makes the least money gets the alimony. Or maybe they will be nice to each other and split it all down the middle equally. After all, we live in a world of social and economic equality given to us by the State now.
Which one will get custody? Again maybe they will spilt down the middle.
Of course the whole thing might be decided by a prenup.

edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Or maybe the kids will end up in orphanages, with each dad going their own way. Since, what judge will want to have a child living with a promiscuous single gay man, who demonstrates no long term commitment ?




posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
My question is, when to guys get divorced, who gets shafted with the alimony payments? It's a divorce lawyer's nightmare.


That would be whoever didn't get custody of the adopted children, or whoever makes the least money gets the alimony. Or maybe they will be nice to each other and split it all down the middle equally. After all, we live in a world of social and economic equality given to us by the State now.
Which one will get custody? Again maybe they will spilt down the middle.
Of course the whole thing might be decided by a prenup.

edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Or maybe the kids will end up in orphanages, with each dad going their own way. Since, what judge will want to have a child living with a promiscuous single gay man, who demonstrates no long term commitment ?


Will social services be dragged into such scenarios to decide whether either of them are dedicated enough to have custody? If they went out of their way to adopt, wouldn't at least one of them be wanting custody? What if they both wanted custody and they split custody down the middle.
Reminds me of that story of the King who told two mothers if they couldn't work out who should get the child, he would split the child down the middle. The real birth mother was horrified and sacrificed custody to keep the child alive.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by kaylaluv
 



I assume you support stoning disobedient children as well?

This is a silly, ignorant statement.

You should probably brush up on Christian theology; the Law has been fulfilled in Christ and he has thus become the Law for us. The Law which was given to Moses has absolutely no bearing on Christians.


Seems like someone else should be brushing up, my friend.

Matthew 5:17-19

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Then there is the story of Jesus asking any bystanders if they had not ever sinned, and whoever had not sinned could be the first to cast a stone. They all decided not to throw stones, and then Jesus turned to the adulteress and said that none there condemned her and neither did he, and to "go and sin no more".
Unfortunately, many take this as a sign we can go off and sin as much as we want without getting the stone treatment.
Jesus did bring the element of forgiveness, so yah nobody has to get stoned by his peers, but we do now have a jury of our peers by the State.
edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


There is nothing scary about gay marriage. Marriage is to be between man and a woman. Not same sex.

typically same sex marriage is argued for the benefits that have been bestowed on it by government.

Same sex couples are discriminated against getting those benefits since they do not meet the criteria for marriage as it is today.

I am discriminated for not being poor because i cant' get welfare... I am discriminated for being young since i can't get social security checks. I don't meet the criteria for those things. it sucks cuz i pay into it but yet i can't get it. I get over it.

If people want to get married regardless of benefits i really do not understand why they would want to. Marriage in religions for the most part are between a man and a woman.

If same sex people care about their religion so much why would they want to damage its integrity by forcing it to go against its own principles.

it just makes no sense why they would want to get married from that perspective.

It is not scary.. not sure where you get this scary thing.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by SQUEALER



Or maybe the kids will end up in orphanages, with each dad going their own way. Since, what judge will want to have a child living with a promiscuous single gay man, who demonstrates no long term commitment ?
This is downright asinine, and really tips your hand. You consider a gay person to be worse than a straight person. That is the only way this argument makes any sense, when you consider that straight people are just as apt to act in a promiscuous manner as homosexuals.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Romeo1
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Its simple...normal straight people just dont like it...they dont want to see it (unless its hot girl girl porn) and they dont want it crammed down their throats...and some of faith dont like it but that is really the small percentage...
The gay population is fooling themselves thinking that everyone is now excepting them for who they are..but this is false..its just hype created by the media to have us think gay is cool...well for most people its not cool. I will never ever tell my kids its normal but they can also make their own decisions in the long run. Im not homo phobic and I really dont care what you do behind closed doors just stop pushing the agenda that its normal.
Im here to tell you for every nice person good friend that you think is so good with your homosexuality..once behind closed doors there not ok with it.

I would probably be more ok with it if I didnt hear about it and see it and be told that "we have gay rights" so get used to it.
Im 100% for don't ask don't tell...





Straight is not normal, so don't tell me you are straight, don't kiss the opposite sex in public, don't hold their hand, don't get married,

you have no right to tell me i'm not 'Normal' because there is no base definition of 'Normal'



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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Now,
I didn't go through all the 19 pages but I feel like chiming in here as well with my view on things.
Funny thing, we had this topic up at a seminar last monday; why is homosexuality so deeply feared among certain people? You seldom meet anyone who dislikes gays "just a lil". It is either OK or they hate them.

I think much of it lies in the discourse: homosexual. The focus here is on the sex, out of proportion. You know, the dirty minds of people in general. They think: If some people can feel those kinds of feelings for someone of the same sex...you know, break the boundaries just like that...what does that say about me? Like, if gay people can marry, I too have to take it up the tailpipe, or whatever (it does include homosexual women too, I know).
People are so afraid of having their fragile perception of the world wrecked. You know, all the little sets of rules and traditions and crap that give their shallow lives a little meaning amidst a chaotic world. Most of the times, they don't even know what values or moral they are trying to defend. The "gut feeling" they resort to in the end (when all arguments are exhausted) is probably just guilt- guilt over their own bad behaviour and misdirected hate.

Anti gay marriage is just a sprinkle on top of this rotten cupcake called homophobia.

People have proclaimed for ages that they know "god" and what "he says" and proscribes for humanity without an ounce of evidence on it. There is no natural "law" that "god" set up for us, we all did that to ourselves. Not only religious institutions does this, political ones do that as well (as do others). Take social Darwinism for instance or Hobbes. People dream up all sorts of crazy #e in order to shove it down other peoples throats so that they are more easily subdued and controlled under the mighty banner of FEAR. Fear the unknown. You don't even know WHAT it is that you are afraid of, only that it might destroy your heart and soul and condemn you to hell. Maybe. You don't know but is it worth the risk? Nah, no.
Said it before and I'll say it again:
People. Are. So. Freakning. Lame.

What I have a hard time understanding though, is why gay people would ever want to turn to the christian church for. Given its history, it would be like a jew signing up at the local nazi party.

My own standpoint on this, in case it got blurred, is that gay people are entitled to the EXACT same rights and obligations as ANY other member of humanity. It is as simple as that. If anyone or anything would object to that, it is to be labelled fascist imho.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by XaniMatriX
 





Of course you can, lets say you have a food forest in your back yard, at the end of harvest there is a surplus of valuable goods, that can be given to charity or other's without taking anything away from someone else, or is there just one way to live on this planet?


I wasn't even going to post on this thread, but I found your food forest in the back yard idea much too intriguing not to respond.
I really just wanted to point out that although I like your idea of abundance, the whole cornucopia thing, we currently do not have food forests in the back yard. Do you know what 5 T worth of debt looks like?


edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



What is so scary about gay marriage? Fear is literally the only reason that people are against it (whether it be religious fear, social fear, etc). There is no other logical reason.

So, again, I ask: What is so scary about gay marriage?


Nothing is scary about it.

Marriage is a religious ceremony. Those who oppose gay marriage seek to preserve the sanctity of Holy Matrimony. Many same-sex couples are simply interested in the government's acknowledgement of their relationship. They are not asking for any religion to accept gay marriages.

SO…….Call it something else (civil union) and collect your benefits. Nobody gives a crap, really.





No. "Marital" Status in incorporated in federal and state tax law, and other law such as inheritance laws. It's engrained in our society, in contracts with insurance and finance companies, and in retirement and property laws.

This is a case where there is no "Separate but equal", which by the way was decided unconstitutional a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away during the civil rights struggle.

Marriage AIN'T just a religious matter, and hasn't been for more than a century or so.
edit on 28-5-2013 by setibuddies because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-5-2013 by setibuddies because: To put my reason for editing in: spelling



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
You consider a gay person to be worse than a straight person.


Yup.

The statistics say so.

Besides, women are more conservative than men. They resist sex more. Straight men have to struggle more to get laid.

There is a good biological reason for this. Women fear pregnancy. Getting pregnant, without long term commitment, puts many women off casual sex.

Men have no such restriction.

I can assure you, that straight men would be just as promiscuous as gay men, IF the women would allow it.

But the natural barriers are there, between the opposite halves of the straight relationship, and this reduces opportunity.




That is the only way this argument makes any sense, when you consider that straight people are just as apt to act in a promiscuous manner as homosexuals.



Nope. Women are less promiscuous than men. Straight people are very different from homosexuals.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Iamschist
 


I see. Thanks for clearing that up.


reply to post by Raud
 


REALLY great post!



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by XaniMatriX
 





Secondly, homosexuality has existed since time began, in nature and in humans. Even the man that wrote the Bible and and created Christianity practised homosexuality because it was a lot more excepted back in those days,


I don't want to be off-topic here, but even non-Christians usually know that more than one person is responsible for the bible. Even if you were referring to the 3rd Ecumenical Council which decided officially which texts would be placed in the official bible, the Emperor did not "Create" Christianity.
If you were referring to Jesus, he neither wrote the bible, nor was he gay by all accounts, and in fact some scholars believe he might have been married....to Mary Magdalene.


Many people contributed to the writing of the Bible. Actually the Bible is a collection of writings from about forty contributors, thirty in the Old Testament and ten in the New Testament. For example, the Psalms are a collection of the works of several authors, of whom David, the "sweet singer of Israel", is the best known. But psalms were also written by Moses, by Asaph, by a man named Ethan, and by the sons of Korah.



The accounts which have been preserved in the Old Testament date from the earliest times and were both written down and transmitted orally. As time passed they were collected together and received by the Hebrews as coming to them by God's mandate. The prophets transmit God's message to humans, while many of the Psalms articulate cries of people to God. Yet these psalms are also preserved in the Bible as part of God's message to mankind.



The New Testament stories and teachings were widely circulated among the early Christian churches. The letters of Paul to the Christians in several cities were likely the earliest writings now found in the New Testament. But many other letters and epistles were circulated as well. Gradually it became clear to the early churches which writings were truly inspired and which were spurious or simply edifying messages from pious authors.


www.biblica.com...

So that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. Perhaps you get your material from that gay guy who goes around to schools using the bible as a weapon.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by SQUEALER
 


That's not true, it's equal on all sides. I had women come up to me and just grab my hand, then drag me to a corner for some promiscuous activity, and at all of those moments I say no.

So it goes for both sides, saying women are less attracted to sex is a lie, were all equal.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by SQUEALER
 





Yup. The statistics say so.
Statistics say that gay people are worse than straight people? Care to provide those statistics?




Besides, women are more conservative than men. They resist sex more. Straight men have to struggle more to get laid.
That you think all women are the same, that all men are the same, that all men struggle, etc is foolhardy.




There is a good biological reason for this. Women fear pregnancy. Getting pregnant, without long term commitment, puts many women off casual sex.





Men have no such restriction.
So men arent required by law to pay child support for illegitimate children?




I can assure you, that straight men would be just as promiscuous as gay men, IF the women would allow it.
Im sorry that you have such a hard time with women.




Nope. Women are less promiscuous than men. Straight people are very different from homosexuals.
Just utter nonsense.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by XaniMatriX
 





Secondly, homosexuality has existed since time began, in nature and in humans. Even the man that wrote the Bible and and created Christianity practised homosexuality because it was a lot more excepted back in those days,


I don't want to be off-topic here, but even non-Christians usually know that more than one person is responsible for the bible. Even if you were referring to the 3rd Ecumenical Council which decided officially which texts would be placed in the official bible, the Emperor did not "Create" Christianity.
If you were referring to Jesus, he neither wrote the bible, nor was he gay by all accounts, and in fact some scholars believe he might have been married....to Mary Magdalene.


Many people contributed to the writing of the Bible. Actually the Bible is a collection of writings from about forty contributors, thirty in the Old Testament and ten in the New Testament. For example, the Psalms are a collection of the works of several authors, of whom David, the "sweet singer of Israel", is the best known. But psalms were also written by Moses, by Asaph, by a man named Ethan, and by the sons of Korah.



The accounts which have been preserved in the Old Testament date from the earliest times and were both written down and transmitted orally. As time passed they were collected together and received by the Hebrews as coming to them by God's mandate. The prophets transmit God's message to humans, while many of the Psalms articulate cries of people to God. Yet these psalms are also preserved in the Bible as part of God's message to mankind.



The New Testament stories and teachings were widely circulated among the early Christian churches. The letters of Paul to the Christians in several cities were likely the earliest writings now found in the New Testament. But many other letters and epistles were circulated as well. Gradually it became clear to the early churches which writings were truly inspired and which were spurious or simply edifying messages from pious authors.


www.biblica.com...

So that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. Perhaps you get your material from that gay guy who goes around to schools using the bible as a weapon.


WTF???

First off, Jesus is not a real person, you do know that right? Second, the Bible is a fairy tale derived from thousands of years of other similar fairy tales, and lastly, MARK was the first one to mention Jesus and write about his life, which he made up, because he never met Jesus or knew anything about him.

Also, can you please explain to me how Christianity got passed around please?

Honestly, using the bible as a weapon? Only churches do that.
edit on 28-5-2013 by XaniMatriX because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by deadeyedick
 


If that is your belief structure you are welcome to it.

What about those who don't share those views?

In the US we have the separation of church and state - probably to avoid such possibilities of persecution by those who do not share those same views.

If you believe that gay marriage is wrong, is it so hard to reach people on a personal level and try to convince them that your way is the best way for their own happiness and spiritual salvation?

You do realize that by making the state the strongman enforcer to support your own religious (in)tolerances, you are only doing a great disservice to the religion itself and are unwittingly exposing it to corrupting influences?

There are many things that I disagree with about, say, Scientology, but since this is an (allegedly) free country (and because I do not have access to a star-studded legal team) I simply allow them to practice what they believe and the end result is the same - nobody is hurt in the process.

I'm sure there are a lot of these kinds of groups that exist in this country, yet why focus on just gay marriage? Where are all the cries and vitriol for other seemingly tolerated groups? Where are all the passage-laden lectures denouncing these groups and everything they stand for? Or are all of them next and you are just too busy at the moment?

... Is it because you don't particularly care and/or it does not affect you in any way?



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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Oh for crying out loud!

*saying this in a southern accent*

Thems gaymosexshumals ain't gonna git me or my family!

I can't believe I'm one of the few conservatives on this site who just don't care about sexual orientation! Let 'em marry! Let 'em adopt! PLEASE let them adopt! (Maybe fewer will die under the knife of an abortionist!)

Gays aren't Darth Vader. They aren't evil blood-sucking parasites! (those are lawyers)

They are men and women that are just attracted to folks of the same gender. They work, pay taxes, pay bills, go bowling, drink beer. . . just like us straighties do!

Almost 20 pages! OMG! I'm going to just throw my hands up in the air and prance off this stage *jazz hands* because I will not judge people based soley on one characteristic!



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


The scary part is that homosexuality will become accepted as 'normal' by society. The erosion of traditional values is threatening for many. Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible, to accept gay marriage, is to accept the 'sin' and bring down the wrath of God. I am guessing that is another scary part.


I actually do not think that gayness would one day suddenly either nationally or internationally become the "norm." Statistics state that the actual percentage of gay people in the (U.S.) is about 4%; that percentage point is terribly low...

What's actually quite ironic about "traditional value" heterosexual marraiges, is that the divorce rate is 50%!! And that percentage is amongst conservative bible belt Xtians.. The name of the website where I found the information is no longer on my booktags(!) so I'm unable to share the link at this time. In the meantime, with that type of divorce rate, how can Xtians really say that they view matrimony as holy and sancrosanct, and yet not uphold it's standard..
edit on 28-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by votan
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


There is nothing scary about gay marriage. Marriage is to be between man and a woman. Not same sex.


Yep, that's ONE of the several definitions:




mar·riage
[mar-ij] Show IPA

noun
1.

a.
the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. Antonyms: separation.

b.
a similar institution involving partners of the same gender: gay marriage. Antonyms: separation.

2.
the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage. Synonyms: matrimony. Antonyms: single life, bachelorhood, spinsterhood, singleness; separation.

3.
the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. Synonyms: nuptials, marriage ceremony, wedding. Antonyms: divorce, annulment.


Thank God we live in a secular society where people who have different opinions on things are free to do as they will with them. If two people of the same gender get married, that does nothing to the people who believe that marriage is strictly between a man and a woman, because they can still get married to the opposite gender themselves. Their personal or religious definition of marriage is unchanged.



I am discriminated for not being poor because i cant' get welfare... I am discriminated for being young since i can't get social security checks. I don't meet the criteria for those things. it sucks cuz i pay into it but yet i can't get it. I get over it.


You have the capacity to be poor. You have the capacity to be old. Gay people do not have the capacity to be straight. There's no way you actually think this is the same thing? So ridiculous.


If people want to get married regardless of benefits i really do not understand why they would want to. Marriage in religions for the most part are between a man and a woman.


See, you are jsut one of those people whose brain doesn't absorb plainly evident information. Civil marriage has absolutely nothing to with religion. Asserting that is does is simply the proliferation of a rather adolescent fallacy.


If same sex people care about their religion so much why would they want to damage its integrity by forcing it to go against its own principles.


If conservatives care about the constitution so much, why would they damage it by acting as if one specific religion is the beginning and end of all laws in this country? Why would they say that people who want to get married want to be part of a religion? Civil marriage has absolutely nothing to do with religion.


it just makes no sense why they would want to get married from that perspective.

It is not scary.. not sure where you get this scary thing.



It's not scary, but you just made all of your fears very clear, and they are all irrational and very juvenile.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


The reason why they behave the way they do beez is because they think that if they don't sic the state on these people to disallow it or somehow force them to stop that they will be judged for it and will be denied whatever it is they are after.



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