Do you remember...? **memorial day**

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I was hoping to see a reference to the civil war since it is the origin of Memorial Day.

It says that in the excerpt I linked from Wiki.

Right, that was meant as a thanks for adding it to the thread. I should have been more specific.

OIC, sorry.

reply to post by sonnny1


Actually I haven't purchased anything in years (except food), finding out where it came from and thanks to whom really made me think about what you just said. Of course providing your own food is a little bit more tricky but i am working on it.

That picture goes both ways buddy.

reply to post by nenothtu


Killing someone is against the law, just because you have other Mafia organizations justifying your actions for you, doesn't change the fact that soldiers break laws, which mean they are criminals, you don't have to be from two different worlds to understand that.

Well this has been a spirited albeit fruitless discussion.
Walk a mile in the mans shoes eh?


PEACE

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Killing someone is against the law, just because you have other Mafia organizations justifying your actions for you, doesn't change the fact that soldiers break laws, which mean they are criminals, you don't have to be from two different worlds to understand that.

No it isn't.

Murder is against the law, but killing is not. Educate yourself in the matter.

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Killing someone is against the law, just because you have other Mafia organizations justifying your actions for you, doesn't change the fact that soldiers break laws, which mean they are criminals, you don't have to be from two different worlds to understand that.

So all soldiers break laws, and are criminals?

Clarify.

What about the Combat Medic and the Army Chaplin?




Somehow all I see is a group of folks being lumped into your definition of criminal elements. Who needs a Judge or Jury when we have YOU around to explain it all??

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Well this has been a spirited albeit fruitless discussion.
Walk a mile in the mans shoes eh?


PEACE

And it continues...

Though I must say, welcome back. You may not feel it, but you are what ATS is about.

Never give up the good fight when it comes to commen sense.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


You know I respect your opinion enough to tell you I don't need your respect...I don't need you to Honor me or anything else I do. The fact you are able to express your opinion is enough to Honor the veterans that came before me and those before them.

As for your ancestors...our history is indeed sad in regards to how we have operated but You honor your ancestors each day or should. Some of the greatest veterans we have in this country, in every War we have been participants in have included your Ancestors...WW1...WW2...Korea...Vietnam...and I serve today with Proud Native Americans...so Honor them at least.

No one expects Honor but they are due this Honor...you would not be able to protest the treatment of your ancestors without the veterans of yesterday...you would not be able to express your views today without them and since the ancestors you wish to be Honored are Veterans themselves you do a dis-service by not honoring veterans...yes I have a great respect for Cassius Clay who stood up based upon his beliefs and did not serve...I respect his decision.

I understand that wars are being fought because of differences in government views from one country to another etc etc. Yes it is a big shame that soldiers and others of the other forces will die or others getting maimed but what I really don't get is why people have to say have a nice memorial day. Its not a day to be happy but to reflect on what our soldiers had to do in order for us to be in so called freedom There are sales and more sales going on in the name of Memorial day. This should not have to be. Just go about your business and just remember the fallen and the wounded and hoping that it doesn't happen to your kids.

reply to post by LastStarfighter


I was in beruit when they blew us up. Not a war, but I was there.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


Sir or ma'am, my mother was half Indian, I have served with many also, you are right, this is our land. And i chose, just like so many of my friends, to serve. I have read yor posts, and agree with some of your ideoligy, however, this is not the place, in this post to air alot of that out. This is a postof respect of our fallen. Take that however you need to. Much respect, and may the winds be at your heels.

reply to post by sonnny1


So true! And much respect!

reply to post by seagull


Who flagged this? Tisk Tisk Tisk.

Memorial Day seems to mean to some of you that we're somehow glorifying war, and its horrible consequences...

Nothing could be farther from the truth, at least for my part...

Last summer I watched a young man I've known since he was a child of six come home from the mountains of Afghanistan. I watched his parents whom I've known for even longer clutch at each other for comfort that wouldn't come... I watched his widow sit silently while holding their two little boys, ages about six, and the other maybe two... The little boy wondering, I'm sure, where's daddy? When's he coming home?

...and I know there are, across the world, other six year old little boys who are wondering exactly the same damned thing.

I watched my father relive some horrible moments that I alluded to in my OP... My sister, who's only five years older than I, has nightmares very similar...

Do you oh so peace loving, yet somehow so very hateful; really think that that family wants to glorify war? Or that my father does? My sister? My brother? Those friends who served in various combat operations in the world? Really? Really?

If you do, you're not nearly so smart as you seem to think you are.

Most, dare I say the vast majority would just as soon peace break out all over the world. If, in your willing blindness, you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you... Other than you're so very wrong.

Commemoration in no way means glorifying.

Remembering doesn't condone. In remembering, one can draw lessons so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past, should we, as a whole, be so inclined.

I never served. Not sure I would have had I been able to...but I'll never know. But I can, and will continue to, support those who could have been my brothers and sisters. Because, whether you like it or not, believe it or not, (...and I care not whether you agree, or not...) those fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, cousins, neighbors, and friends are deserving of that support.

Now the people in power, that we put there? ...and the wars they start? Now that's a whole other topic...

How does that even make sense, Killing is not illegal but murder is?

What is Murder? Murder is the unlawful KILLING of another human being, it's common law, don't throw ridiculous policies and legislations that excuse soldiers of performing MURDER.

I am not calling the fallen soldiers bad people, most of them didn't have a choice and had to do the bidding of the slave owners (Government). I feel for those guys because it must have been unimaginably terrible to be forced to kill (MURDER) someone.

But to ignore the fact that's it's still a criminal action is just silly.

Originally posted by IntrinsicMotivation
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

Like another poster mentioned, Cassius Clay did the right thing.

It is not my fault you let the Gov send you there to die. You should have chosen the Jail time that keeps you here with your family and you have better survival chances too.

Like I said, Cassius Clay was the perfect example.

If people will learn to recognize propaganda (something that appeals to your emotions, not logic) then we would never have went the route we did, then again who knows, so is the power of hindsight.

P.S. Still waiting for remembrance of my fallen ancestors.

edit on 28-5-2013 by IntrinsicMotivation because: grammer

I'm sorry I don't know what you are talking about. The government didn't send me there. Since I'm typing it would indicate I wasn't killed there. Additionally, memorial day is to remember your ancestors who fought in wars.

reply to post by LastStarfighter


I was obviously referring to the days of the draft.

To those who felt I have been disrespectful- I waited till observance of the day to pass before I posted here.

By posting what I did has brought some recognition of what I am talking about.

For those who mention that Natives served in the military as well I would redirect you to my original post showing that Natives account for less than 2% of the population. How much of the military population do you think they account for?

I am sure to catch heat for this, but why would a Native volunteer to serve the same army responsible for their family's displacement, trials and tribulations? Taken from your family and forced to assimilate to the anglo saxon ways.

Now whoever those Natives were and those enlisted today are only helping this army overseas do to others what had once happened to them.

Then again maybe I should show compassion for those who enlisted to get out off the Reservation where the rate of suicide increases by 33% just living there, but then again who is responsible for Natives being put into Reservations?

I have plenty of friends in the military and would you believe that they agree with me and realize that it is not what they thought it was.

Seeing how I am posting this on a conspiracy website I would imagine that there are others who feel the same way.

reply to post by seagull


My view of warring and soldiering has changed more than once in my life but... over that time and through those course corrections, I could never bring myself to look down on someone who gave their life.

Most of us can't even begin to imagine the degree of heart and soul it takes to surrender one's life for anything... much less a nation of people that you would have never known anyway.

Sacrifice on this level should never be set aside, regardless of something as shallow as politics.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


With respect you were disrespectful.

You should have started your own thread and discussed your thoughts and feelings.
That is my opinion anyway - you reminded me of the people on November 11th Remembrance day where people burn poppies and think they are being cutting edge.

Most of the men and women who have died in war were not there by choice. As I said to you yesterday, I am sure a good proportion of them were Native Americans as well.

Addit: I am actually really interested in what you have to say about the Native Americans - so I would be really interested to read your thread.

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
How does that even make sense, Killing is not illegal but murder is?

Jaywalking is illegal, crossing at a crosswalk is not, yet both are simply crossing the street. One is illegal, one is not. It's a matter of what law prohibits when discussing matters of illegality.

What is Murder? Murder is the unlawful KILLING of another human being, it's common law, don't throw ridiculous policies and legislations that excuse soldiers of performing MURDER.

The answer is right there in your own definition (which is not strictly speaking correct), yet you refuse to see it. None are so blind as those who have eyes yet WILL not see.

There is nothing quite so tragic as one who willfully blinds themselves with hate and tries to masquerade it as "love for humanity". It's nothing of the sort.

I am not calling the fallen soldiers bad people, most of them didn't have a choice and had to do the bidding of the slave owners (Government). I feel for those guys because it must have been unimaginably terrible to be forced to kill (MURDER) someone.

"Kill" and "murder" are two different things, not one and the same. Recheck your own definition.

But to ignore the fact that's it's still a criminal action is just silly.

Ignoring the fact that it takes illegality to make something criminal is no less silly, and probably a good deal more so.