Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
I believe its called Islamiphobia, not racism. By defination racism is to attack ones skin tone or race.

For example; Hitler was an anti-semite but not a rasict (atleast toward jews).

The term racist is used far to loosey nowadays.

ALS

A “phobia” means an abnormal fear of something.
The question here is…… Is people’s fears of Islam “abnormal”?
Or are they based in sound reasoning.

That leads to the other topic you mentioned. It seams that one can not discuss the religion of islam without eliciting the cry of “you are racists!!”.

I have never seen that reaction when discussing any other religion. Be it in regard to Hindu, Buddhist, sheik or Christians. But when I talk about islam, I instantly become a “racist”

As far as I know, there is no genetic trait that forces you to believe in Islam. It is strictly a learned set of information that is educated into a person after birth. Just like any other belief set.

Yet, even considering that outstanding fact, like all other discussions of this type, we still get people that try to inject racism into the underlying argument. It’s like it is a default position that people drop to to try and derail the conversation and stop it from going any further.

I looked at the photos and all I saw were a bunch of white brits, I didn't see a single photo of "thousands" of Muslims lets alone hundreds or dozens or even 1 dozen. Sounds to me like this story is an attempt to stop anti-Muslim protests but looks like disinfo, pics or it didn't happen.

More on the persecution of the Amahdiyya who organized the condemnation event.

Mainstream Muslim clerics in Pakistan have declared them "apostates" and "non-Muslims".

Here is more of their shocking persecution, also in countries like Indonesia.

Let the world stand with the Amahdiyya for their kind gesture.

thepersecution.org...

www.persecutionofahmadis.org...

Times like this, I find it helpful to listen to some Pink Floyd.

Us and Them
And after all we're only ordinary men
Me, and you
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do

Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the General sat, as the lines on the map
Moved from side to side

Black and Blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and Down
And in the end it's only round and round and round

Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside

Down and Out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
With, without
And who'll deny that's what the fighting's all about

Get out of the way, it's a busy day
And I've got things on my mind
For want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died

Sorry if this is deemed off topic - it just seemed relevant to me.

Peace.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe they are sincere, and this is why: A couple Muslims kill an English infidel and 5,000 Muslims gather peacefully to protest. To me, they're just saving their own butts because they know sooner or later we're going to strike back the way the Buddhist monks did in Myanmar.

Yet if those 5000 didn't turn up for the protest we'd have folks whining about how Muslims don't speak out against the "radicals".

In other words, Muslims are damned if they do... and damned if they don't. It makes no difference to some people. It all makes sense now.

No, no, no. I'm sure there are people that think it's cool to be called a Muslim. But, these naive people stick the word Muslim to themselves in the same way some people think it's cool to get a tattoo. So, being a Muslim doesn't control their lives. They still just want to work and support their families - and there's nothing wrong with that.

But I gotta tell ya, if someone or a group of people abused an organization that I am a part of, an organization that I love with every fiber of my being, well, I'm calling up a small army and going after them. I will put them down with the same fanatical fervor as they are using against others. Isn't that what Islam is all about: a fanatical love of god and all that is right and just? Wouldn't someone NOT be a true Muslim if they DIDN'T defend their Allah against those that do awful things in his name?

Originally posted by whatnext21
Well i would never ever befriend someone who lives and breathes islam and that is my opinion and many opinions of many i have talked to on this subject none of you know how repulsed and disgusted so many are these days and all the crap that is going on is not helping their ability to integrate into the western world and have people associate and embrace them, they don't want it anyway . You speak of tolerance,well i don't believe they have any tolerance for us, yes i will say it , i am white. and we have none in my neck of the woods. I don't care how many of you say they are peaceful, i don't have to go out of my way to do anything.

Sort of sad, but not really, I guess. It's your life, isolate yourself in fear all you like. Out of curiosity, how do you know what they do or don't want if you refuse to associate with any of them due to your phobia?

Let's not forget that when they plan their terrorism it is usually to take as many infidels as they possibly can, the UK incident was different, it was meant to show their barbarism and that they are not afraid to show the world how they hate us, all of us, to make that soldier die in the most inhumane way possible.

Yup. But the odd thing to me is that this particular "they" violated Islam in several particulars in order to demonstrate their barbarism and inhumanity, yet the crime is being laid at the doorstep of Islam. This is what we get, I guess, when folks who don't know much about Islam are allowed to define it.

Call me what you want i don't care. Their ways are different than mine and frankly i don't care to be associated with someone who lets their husband dominate them, I don't let mine dominate me so why do they.

Not gonna call you anything at all. I don't know you, wouldn't have any idea what to call you. It may be that they act differently than you because they are, well, different individuals than you are. I can't quite figure out why you would reject their lifestyle for yourself, yet insist that they adopt yours. I don't know. It seems top me that imposition is imposition, whichever direction it went.

Also, why do so many young muslims become radical, i was listening to a program, and this is where i know that people are getting very angry and concerned with this behavior, Sun TV Canada (not afraid to say it like everyone knows it is, check it out) what they said was that youth always rebel but many of them went the way of James Dean, rebel without and cause and were harmless but these disenchanted youth get mixed up with some preach who turns them against the very country who welcomed them, educated them and tried to give them a better life.

This I CAN answer. Young Muslims are more easily radicalized for the same reason young westerners are more easily militarized. There is a reason that military recruiters concentrate on high school kids - their minds are more easily molded into the form that the military wants. No different from the radicalizers - they prey on the same age group, for the same reason. Same goes for inner city gangs - there is a reason you don't see many old gang members.

I'm not sure where you got the following quote, since it's unattributed:

Multiculturalism doesn’t work.
You cannot have two competing cultures in the same country.
Questions like: What law do you follow? How do you solve conflicts? Are there any limits on religion in the public square?
Those are western ideas, like the separation of church and state.
There is no separation between mosque and state in the Qur’an; there is no separation between civilian and military in the Qur’an.
This is war.
Take it from the man with the meat cleaver, standing in the street.

I can tell you it's wrong, though. There is most definitely a clear separation between civilian and military in the Qur'an.

The US is the most multicultural nation on the planet - that's why they call it the "melting pot". Separation of church and state are absolutely necessary for multiculturalization to work. I was told that by a Muslim who supports separation of church and state, by the way. They wouldn't want Christianity imposed upon them any more than Christians would want Islam imposed on THEM. Therefore, the separation between religion and politics is absolutely essential for proper function. Law has to be based on common ground to properly apply to all, and religion or religious laws won't work for that.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by theconspirator

You either hate all muslims, or fear all muslims. Either way, you need to grow up and stop catagorizing entire populations together with the acts of a few bad men.

But why does Islam produce so many bad men?

After all, we don't hear about Hindus chopping peoples' heads off in the street or Buddhists blowing spectators up at a race?

Is it perhaps because the aggressive fundamentalist Wahhabi school of Islam is being spread by Saudi Arabia money across the West?

Almost all (if not all) Muslim terrorists are Wahhabi or Salafi. Perhaps 80% of all mosques built in the last decade in the West have been financed by Saudi Wahhabi money.

Perhaps the miracle is that there hasn't been more terrorist attacks.

No doubt there's not terrorists coming out of India the same way, but that is more based on the situation they are in than their religion. Is India a terrorist breeding ground? No, but why would they be? Is their nation being overrun by vastly more powerful nations' militaries? Do they have absolutely no viable standing defense forces and thus have no choice in fighting back than to resort to terrorism/guerilla tactics? Then again, maybe the answer doesn't lie in logical, obvious explanations at all, and people are just inherently bad, based on their religion alone.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by nwtrucker

 

I have no problem with someone born in Pakistan, or Arabia or Africa but I do have a problem with specifically radical branches of Shiite Islam and that is not RACIST get your politically correct fact right, RELIGION IS NOT RACE no matter whom says it is just look it up in whatever main stream dictionary you can be it Oxford or Harvard OK.

Sorry but I am sick and tired of hearing the RACIST comment used in relation to RELIGION when it patently and definitively does not and never has applied,.

edit on 26-5-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

Would the term "chauvinist" be more acceptable to you, then? You can hate anyone at all for any reason you prefer under that heading, and don't have to specify your reason at all in order to try to pretend that the reason makes some difference.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
I believe its called Islamiphobia, not racism. By defination racism is to attack ones skin tone or race.

For example; Hitler was an anti-semite but not a rasict (atleast toward jews).

The term racist is used far to loosey nowadays.

ALS

A “phobia” means an abnormal fear of something.
The question here is…… Is people’s fears of Islam “abnormal”?
Or are they based in sound reasoning.

No, a phobia is an unreasonable or irrational fear. "Abnormal" may not be sufficient to rise to the level of a phobia, because hardly anything is normal. Fear of Islam, Christianity, Voodoo, or falling meteorites are all unreasonable, among a great many other things. It is irrational to fear things that cannot touch you - and in most cases won't even try to.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Mr Tranny

 

Then you have drunk the kool aid. You have decided to condemn the many for the actions of the few.

Do you trust the Germans or the Japanese? We fought a world war against them, and between them they committed far, far worse atrocities than we see today.

Well then that makes it OK, I guess we will just have to wait until the radical Muslims catch up with the Germans and the Japanese death count so we are all on equal footing to debate.

Is that your logic and please refrain from ridicule, I'm asking a question.

Originally posted by beezzer
Since the Crusades we have been fighting. Each side imagines the smallest insult and responds ten-fold.

We're fighting a war on terror that has become synonymous with Islam. Depending on the event or specific issue, either side could be at fault.

I applaud the members and staff that are trying to be reasonable, but this is a war on a multitude of fronts.

In the media
The classrooms
The battlefields
Residential streets in England
Buildings in New York

It's war that has been fought for centuries and sadly won't end anytime soon.

5,000 Muslims condemning the murder is what I would call a good start.

But it is only a start.

I think you've made some very poignant points and I agree with you. I am afraid TPTB will want to keep stirring the pot and not "let a good crisis go to waste" so to speak.

Originally posted by dogstar23

No doubt there's not terrorists coming out of India the same way, but that is more based on the situation they are in than their religion. Is India a terrorist breeding ground? No, but why would they be? Is their nation being overrun by vastly more powerful nations' militaries? Do they have absolutely no viable standing defense forces and thus have no choice in fighting back than to resort to terrorism/guerilla tactics? Then again, maybe the answer doesn't lie in logical, obvious explanations at all, and people are just inherently bad, based on their religion alone.

Nah, Saudi Arabia, the home of Qutb and Wahabbism, isn't being overrun by vastly more powerful armies, either. They DO have a viable standing defense force.

On the other hand, it's really got nothing to do with religion, or all of the Muslims would be in on it. It has more to do with politics, and specifically the Wahabbist desire to BE a vastly more powerful military to overrun other folks' countries and increase their own borders into a caliphate.

It has not helped matters that the US, UK, and a few others have given them a hook to hang THEIR hate on by doing bone-headed things in the name of their political persuasion. That's like guerrilla warfare 101 - make the opposition overreact, and do dumb crap, so that more folks get pissed off and are more easily radicalized, recruited to YOUR cause.

It's also not helping for the US to be supporting the Wahabbis in Syria right now. That is just dumb as a box of rocks! Makes just NO sense to arm people at the same time as you are allegedly at war with them. Why on Earth are they trying to support and arm the VERY people who want to end them, and then trying to spread the blame and suspicion around to other innocent folks just because of a religious label? That''s more guerrilla warfare 101 - swim in the masses of the people as a fish swims in the water (don't blame me - Mao said that!). In other words, hide the bad guys amongst the innocent, so they're harder to find and mostly go unnoticed.

That is the reason I get so bent out of shape by the "Islam is EVIL" crowd - they're helping the enemy to stay in hiding by obfuscating and misdirecting people's attention. If they can keep you from looking in the direction of your real enemy, you'll never see him coming.

Know yourself, know your enemy, and never allow misdirection.

It's pretty pointless though don't you think?

Realistically it'll only be the people who live in the streets where they gathered who would witness it. Knowing London quite well, unless they gathered nearer to central London where all the top jonny banana white people are in their fortresses, they'd only be showing their support to their own communities who are NOT all condemning it! (and maybe about 1,500 other people on a few indie site/blogs and this thread).

It's not wide enough to let people of this country see that not everyone who follows Islam is a nutter...

Don't get me wrong I like that they have made the effort and we should respond respectfully and try to spread the word. I fear that too much damage has already been done though and think it's time that Muslims serious think about returning home (or travelling to their holy lands, if born over here) before things turn nasty... I know it's not right to force people out who were born and bred over here but they'll forever be scrutinised by "us".


~ CrzayFool.

Originally posted by neformore


I'm highlighting this for all of those "why don't they condemn it?" posters out there who cannot tell the difference between the actions of a minority and the actions of the majority.

I've seen - and as staff had to react to - an awful lot of racism on here recently.

Lots of people post "why don't they apologise for..." or "why don't they condemn..." or "why don't they seek out...." - well here's the deal - do any of us apologise for every murder? Every atrocity that someone commits? The answer is no, we don't - and when it boils down to it irregardless of faith these are just people who usually go about their everyday lives and are as appalled by the actions of extremists as the rest of us are.





www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

You should highlight the fact that it is all fake, all BS, all fairy-tale telling!
Why on God's earth won't people see media f**king fakery for what it 'really' is?

Woolwich 'Terror Attack' - SE London, 22.5.13.

All too much? All too soon?

pffft!

Originally posted by Battleline
Well then that makes it OK, I guess we will just have to wait until the radical Muslims catch up with the Germans and the Japanese death count so we are all on equal footing to debate.

Is that how you decided to define Terrorist , Body count?

Ok, lets see,

Bush Jr inserted our troops into Iraq with a Veil of Lies , With that Body Count, I believe as Terrorist.

We Americans can do our Favorite Chant.

"Were Number One, Were Number One."

Originally posted by ObservingYou
As somebody else asked on Question Time BBC1 the other day..

Why are the Muslim community expected to come forward and apologise that a Muslim committed a murder?

When that nut case in New Zealand went all mental - The White race didn't step forward to apologise for the fact he was white.

maybe because the white race makes sure he see's justice rather then being held up as a hero for the cause of Islam and hid from western agencies. You can deflect all you want but the reality is the middle east is a breeding ground of terrorist activity and its ideology creates monsters. Their people are given sanctuary and freedoms but these monsters cannot see past their ideology and cultural understanding and actually seek to turn the country they are in into the cesspool they decided to leave.

So I slept on this and overnight I developed an interesting perspective.

As I speak for everybody on this thread (using the logic of some of the people who are posting here) and every Caucasian christian (little known fact, I was baptised and raised as a methodist) AND subsequently - when I found I couldn't actually follow the religion - atheist, I can single handedly solve the worlds problems by declaring that everything is OK with the various worlds religions, that we all trust people of other faiths and actively condemn those who commit atrocities for what they are.

Sorted. Right?

(What do you mean, no? I speak for everyone, in the same manner as you think muslims all speak for each other and therefore must each individually atone for the actions of other muslims....)

Think about it.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by Battleline
Well then that makes it OK, I guess we will just have to wait until the radical Muslims catch up with the Germans and the Japanese death count so we are all on equal footing to debate.

Is that how you decided to define Terrorist , Body count?

Ok, lets see,

Bush Jr inserted our troops into Iraq with a Veil of Lies , With that Body Count, I believe as Terrorist.

We Americans can do our Favorite Chant.

"Were Number One, Were Number One."

Define terrorist ? Bush Jr and veil of lies? what are you talking about? this has nothing to do with my post.

Spin away shill but its obvious you have a real hate going on and with that there is no debate.............watch you don't fall off your soapbox slick.

Ofcourse they'd cover their own asses, thats part and parcel of Jihad. What i find amazing is they all know who the people are that plan these things, yet they don't bother to turn them over to the authorities. Why? Go read the Sharia laws and you'll see why. Some commit murder and terrorist attacks, the other half denies and decries, wash rinse and repeat, but nothing ever changes. They will not turn on their own. You people want to keep playing this political correct b.s. and you slide farther into your own doom because...



...you want to outlaw being offensive, and it's going to play right into their hands because that is exactly what they want. The the day will come when you no longer have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms etc. because under Sharia law that is all forbidden for nonmuslim, and what you people are not getting is that when they establish that global Caliphate, you will obey Sharia even if you don't believe what they do or you will die. Go read the Quran for God's sake.

Its fine and dandy that 5000 come out of the woodwork to condemn the attack. However 5000 out of the millions that live there is an insult.
If these people really want to show that they're as sick as we are of all this hate and the radical muslim crap then why dont the rest of the community inform the police of those responsable within their community of preaching this crap and recruiting for jihad. Everyone knows who they are. Everyone knows who has extremist views and likes to poison the minds of young muslim men in London.
If they really want to make a difference then give these bastards up and cut the head off the monster.
If this hate has no roots it wont grow.