Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

reply to post by neformore


Its sad that these people feel the need to gather to condemn what other people did.

At the end of the day, any reasonably minded person will know that only a handful of people are responsible for what happened, and they are in custody and will get their day in court (which will no doubt be a massive media soap opera).

It speaks volumes for the mentality of people in this country who act out against people who had no involvement in the crime. Ignorant, bigoted, even racist yes. Personally I demand or expect no apology or condemnation from anyone. The courts will deal with that. Besides, I was not wronged in any way, and neither were the majority of people who seem to have a problem with what happened. They are using it as an excuse to justify their ignorance and hatred.

People should just get on with their lives, live and let live. I really do not understand the islamophobia. I have never had any trouble with muslims, I have lived in predominantly muslim areas. Sure there are bad muslim people, but bad people are in every society and culture. The simple fact is most muslims want to get on with their lives in peace. Why can't people just accept this, and not judge the entire people on the actions of the minority that dont?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by intrepid
I've seen it here before Nef. Muslim's decry atrocities and some say, "It isn't enough." Logic can not fly in the face of bigotry. Not for those that hate in any case.

Until we deal with radical Muslims, we as a society must live with Islamic terrorism.

Wrong. Until you stop CREATING extremism you'll have problems.

Unfortunately, we still have the radicals in our midst's.

Yes we do. How many do we want to list? There are more than Muslims you know. Skinheads. Fascists. Etc.

Originally posted by woogleuk

Why are Buddhist monks attacking Muslims?

Why is it everywhere Islam as a community goes, it appears to be involved in conflict?

Even Buddhist monks can't seem to live beside them without trouble.

Originally posted by neformore


I'm highlighting this for all of those "why don't they condemn it?" posters out there who cannot tell the difference between the actions of a minority and the actions of the majority.

"Islam is a religion of compassion and peace; a religion which considers the killing of an individual akin to killing the whole of humankind. Such acts of violence, therefore, have absolutely no place in Islam and can never be justified."

In time hopefully this maturing religions Majority WILL gain conscious Balance within the Islamic collective to better communicate the Posted message above.

LOV LIGHT ETERNIA*******

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown

 

Why should they apologise for something they didn't do?

They should, if for no other reason then to admit that it was also their guilt for not preventing the murder of service man, and to calm the other side.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by woogleuk

Why are Buddhist monks attacking Muslims?

Why is it everywhere Islam as a community goes, it appears to be involved in conflict?

Even Buddhist monks can't seem to live beside them without trouble.

Maybe it's not the Muslim's fault? From the source:

This is happening in two countries separated by well over 1,000 miles of Indian Ocean - Burma and Sri Lanka. It is puzzling because neither country is facing an Islamist militant threat. Muslims in both places are a generally peaceable and small minority.

Wanna try again?

Originally posted by intrepid

Wrong. Until you stop CREATING extremism you'll have problems.

That's a bold claim.

How exactly did I cause the Boston bombers to blow up spectators?

How did I cause Bin Laden and his men to destroy the Twin Towers?

How exactly did I cause two Muslims to cut the head of a British soldier off.

Many British people are angry.

Originally posted by intrepid
Yes we do. How many do we want to list? There are more than Muslims you know. Skinheads. Fascists. Etc.

Classic deflection technique.

How dare British people get angry at radical Muslims chopping a soldier's head off when their are skinheads and fascists out there?

Is that your argument?

Alright, let's get this across because I'm sick to the eye teeth of hearing people whining, on and off ATS, about immigration, stabbings, and how much they hate Muslims.

All these people are trying to do is show that they're not involved in violence. This is fair enough to them, because they're scared of retaliation, as a lot of people have been speaking of retaliation in that soldiers name. This is intrinsically wrong because, would he wan't that? Would he want an innocent person killed in retaliation for his life being taken in retaliation for two blokes fighting for a country they don't belong to?
Their march will not prevent retaliation. Nor will it prevent any of the rest of us frowning at the original attack AND the potential retaliation that will come up from it from the idiots that think that's the right way to go about it.

The men involved weren't brought up Muslim and so I don't class them as Muslim. They switched in order to put their hate to something. they obviously have some form of mental health issues. I'm not saying it's diagnosable, but anyone who hacks a bloke down in the street has something wrong with their heads. I know a lot of Muslim people who would condemn violence in 'their' names, but they don't need to, because although it's under 'Islam' as an umbrella, it will never be because of what religion you are. People will always hate, and they will always find something to channel their hate into.

Idiots aren't going to look at a protest and say "wow, I'm obviously being a complete moron. I better stop doing that." Just as much as people who aren't intrinsically racist aren't going to look at a protest about people of other cultures and say "wow, I'm completely wrong. Yes! We need to hound out all of these people coming into our country."

I say, if people come from other countries and do a job, that's wicked. Bring your culture, I'd like to see it. Bring your food coz god I'm always up for trying new food. If you come to be safe from violence, yet bring no violence, that's great too. Just contribute somehow to what we have.
If you come to scrounge our benefit system, I don't think so. People in this country who are scrounging our benefits and are British yet say that immigration is wrong because they're scrounging our benefits, yeah, get off your backside and get a job or move out as well because, quite frankly, I don't want you here either. I'm not doing 4 years degree and a years training to qualify as a professional to pay taxes that go towards giving people a 3 bedroom house because they got pregnant at the age of 16 to avoid having to do anything with their life and pop one out every three years to keep the money coming.
Race isn't the problem, mentality is. There are eejits in every race and religion. There always have been and always will be. I don't think there's much we can to to avoid that other than a complete overhaul of the benefits system. But it really irritates me to see people protesting about immigrants taking benefits on Facebook when they've not worked a day in their lives.

Because lets face it,

People who don't care will never care, people who do care always will and people who start sentences with "I'm not racist but..." will always be racist but will continue pretend they're not in order to seem socially acceptable.

Double post. I KNEW that was coming. Stupid mouse.

My bad.

reply to post by ollncasino


Did you apologise to everyone for the actions of the US and the UK in destabilising the middle east over the past 100 or so years?

You should, because that's the reason why the extremism is happening.

Cause and effect.

And no, that doesn't make any of it right, before you suggest it does.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by intrepid

Wrong. Until you stop CREATING extremism you'll have problems.

That's a bold claim.

How exactly did I cause the Boston bombers to blow up spectators?

How did I cause Bin Laden and his men to destroy the Twin Towers?

How exactly did I cause two Muslims to cut the head of a British soldier off.

Many British people are angry.

"You" is a general term. I could have easily said "we". As in the west. Who created this? WE did.

Classic deflection technique.

How dare British people get angry at radical Muslims chopping a soldier's head off when their are skinheads and fascists out there?

Is that your argument?

Yes. According to you there is only one extremist to worry about. Muslim extremists. There are many more.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by intrepid

This is happening in two countries separated by well over 1,000 miles of Indian Ocean - Burma and Sri Lanka. It is puzzling because neither country is facing an Islamist militant threat. Muslims in both places are a generally peaceable and small minority.

Wanna try again?

Do you want to give me a link?

Thanks.

Why? The one you linked to didn't fit what you had to say and actually made my point?

Originally posted by ObservingYou
As somebody else asked on Question Time BBC1 the other day..

Why are the Muslim community expected to come forward and apologise that a Muslim committed a murder?

When that nut case in New Zealand went all mental - The White race didn't step forward to apologise for the fact he was white.

Surely, if there were criminals using something as personal to you as your faith, as a tool to inflict fear to the general public, you'd say something. Especially when to say nothing appears to show complicity with the thinking?

I know if it were something personal to me that was being used in an offensive manner and giving the impression that it is fundamental to my belief also, I'd be telling people clear as day how it really is.

Yet, it's a strained effort to get a group to do anything. When if it's something said against islam in general, then the entire muslim world has no problem rallying in violent protest.

So I think the comparison to the google protest is very pertinent. What really motivates them to protest? Any external sleight on their religion.

Having said that I am glad there is mention of the 5000 showing their feelings on it. It's a sad thought to know that innocent people are likely being targeted for the actions of a few, and the silence of the many.

reply to post by neformore


S and F for you.

Ironically I bet that you are not even a Brit as must of us on ATS seem to be happily out of touch with reality. I feel that they could have done more a lot earlier in the home bombing campaigns (like 7/7) but then again religious people can be out of touch with the PR arena.

Originally posted by intrepid
So are you saying that all Muslim's are guilty of atrocities or that it just doesn't matter to you if they are sincere or not as to their condemnation of the atrocities?

I am saying that at this point, I can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt, and accept that they are sincere, without question

They may not be evil, but they will not turn against fellow Muslims to stop the evil that is in their own population.

When a person can preach “death to infidels” in a mosque in the US with thousands of worshipers, and he is not ran out on a rail. Then it tells me they will side with islam over the fellow population of the US. They will do what is best for Islam over what is best for their fellow Americans.

If they are forced into a situation where they have to report something that will reflect bad on Islam, then they would rather stay silent more times than not. They will almost always side with their fellow Muslims, no mater how bad they are.

That is the attitude that allows radicalism to grow.

So, marches like that, make me ask, are they doing it for the good of the community, or are they doing it for the good is Islam? To try and blunt the attack on Islam, and nothing more.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by neformore

 

S and F for you.
Ironically I bet that you are not even a Brit as must of us on ATS seem to be happily out of touch with reality.

Born in Crewe, live in Yorkshire now. English to the core

Originally posted by neformore

Did you apologise to everyone for the actions of the US and the UK in destabilising the middle east over the past 100 or so years?

Are you Jesting?

ATS is full of threads having a go at US and UK foreign policy with posters holding Brits and Americans generally responsible.

Yet defenders of Islam find the concept of anyone holding members of Islam generally responsible for the violent acts committed by Muslims as somehow beyond the pale.

It is a double standard.

Originally posted by neformore
You should, because that's the reason why the extremism is happening.

Cause and effect.

Then it is a puzzle why Bin Laden destroyed the Twin Towers and 3,000 people before the West had invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

Cart? Horse?

The mistake you are perhaps making is to assume that everything revolves around an all powerful West. The West isn't that powerful and radical Muslims have their own agenda.

Originally posted by ollncasino


How dare British people get angry at radical Muslims chopping a soldier's head off when their are skinheads and fascists out there?

Is that your argument?

Was Muslim grandfather murdered in race attack? Police release CCTV of white man fleeing the scene of stabbing near a mosque

I could be wrong, but I think this actually played a part in the recent killing, but even if I am...this was the reversed role, a white, possibly Christian, guy stabbing to death an innocent man on the street.

Also, even if the two incidents were related, you don't see the whole Muslim community up in arms about it...just a couple of extremists.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
The question I have is……. How many are marching out of sincerity, and how many are doing it purely for optics/propaganda?


You can post all the articles of them protesting (fill in the next atrocity) but when I no longer trust them, and their sincerity, at the most basic level, then it’s all just propaganda to me.

edit on 26-5-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

You really don't know Muslim people at all, and your statement is very ignorant and uneducated. I am a westerner, I live in a 99% Muslim country and have so for 4 years now, in their communities with their children and all I have ever experienced is kindness. These people get up every morning and live normal lives for the most part, if anything the issue is they are innocent. They grow up in a Muslim society and are not exposed to the things in western countries, they believe to each their own though, because Allah, God made us all. They do not have the desire to scheme people, they are mostly embroiled in figuring out how to support their families amidst corrupt dictators, who squalor oil money, and keep the masses busy trying to build a house out of rock and grow food meanwhile digging the earth with their hands due to the lack of tools. Meanwhile no such things as bank loan as that entails 500% INTEREST. They mostly escape from this life to search out a better life, INNOCENTLY, and if they stay quiet its because they feel like people like you are so stupid to think this could be true of them when they came open-hearted to try and better their lives. Its not Muslim people's fault this terrorism is happening. There are many other evil benefactors of this strife in the midst, and in the midst of everything God shall raise up an army, and shall call it his people and it does not matter what race, or religion you are. If you think with love instead of hate or fear, you might have a different understanding.