Huge anti-gay marriage protest in France

The way people discuss us is that we are not 'Human' as you are human, that our sexuality makes us not as Human as you, regardless of sexuality, we are Human as you are Human, and we deserve as much as you to not only thrive in this universe, but likewise gain the same benefits, Rights and privileges as anyone else gay straight, Black white,

no Religious Dogma shall be the law, so therefor you cannot place 'Religious Beliefs' as a reason for us not allowed to get married, if a religious institution refuses to perform the marriage, that is their freedom of their institution, but you cannot place a country wide 'Ban' on homosexual marriage just because you feel it's 'Demoralizing'

reply to post by frazzle

It won't be "anybody" sticking their noses into it, it will be the governments with their gargantuan noses, just like always.

Good point.
Of course writing from South Africa, we've had gay marriage since 2006.
Polygamy has also been accepted here (long before gay marriage) under customary marriages.
We're also not a welfare state in the same way that Europe or the US is.

But I think people are cautious, and gay marriages have been a trickle (although the media dotes on every exhibitionist example it can find), rather than a flood.
Officiating things that way sounds better than it practically may be.
It can ruin a person.

Not to be anti-romantic, but in practice marriage is one of the ways in which state power can gain a foothold in people's personal lives.

But we also expect state power to intervene in many other things.
For example, after an accident we don't organize a war party, like some hunter-gatherers might do.
Instead, we expect the state and the legal system to dish out fairness and punishment.
So we all give a considerable amount of control to the state, and it is not only bad.

It's something to keep in mind.
But essentially that's not an argument against specifically gay marriages.

reply to post by halfoldman

But we also expect state power to intervene in many other things.
For example, after an accident we don't organize a war party, like some hunter-gatherers might do.
Instead, we expect the state and the legal system to dish out fairness and punishment.
So we all give a considerable amount of control to the state, and it is not only bad.

In many instances where the state intervenes it is not at all about restitution for damages done to an injured party, it merely demands that whoever is deemed at fault must "pay a debt to society" and in the case of accidents, its mostly about raising insurance rates on both parties. I suppose some might call that fair.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
We both already have the same rights--to marry someone of the opposite sex.

In most states, we are both prohibited from marrying someone of the same sex--

So our "rights" are exactly the same.

Not the same as jim Crow laws.

I knew someone was going to use this stupid argument sooner or later. You could use this same argument to argue against interracial marriage, amongst other things. You have a very distorted view of equality.

"Gays can already get married to the opposite sex" is not a valid reason (or even a reason for that matter) to stop them from marrying each other. In fact, I wouldn't even call it a reason. All it does is suggest an alternative to marriage equality, that alternative being "gays enter a loveless relationship with someone of the opposite sex to get the same perks as opposite sex couples can get so easily".

I would respond to that last remark, but I'm not sure if you didn't read the post carefully, or if you just couldn't think of a good reply.

reply to post by Christian Voice

A bit of dominance is an attractive quality in a man.
It makes me empathize with heterosexual women, and the kind of patriarchal vanity they have to deal with all the time.

I don't think gay people emulate heterosexuals, I think heterosexuals copy us.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

We don't have to use religious reasons to defy your perversions. The purpose for the male orgasm is to produce sperm. The only NATURAL purpose for sperm is to fertilize an egg and create a new organism. Given that, we can conclude that homosexuality is unnatural. Therefore if you are living day to day as a homosexual then your lifestyle is unnatural. You think that you are owed rights and benefits. I say hogwash. You choose to live an unnatural lifestyle and that nullifies these rights you claim to have. You can't use the retarded obviously biased studies that imply several animals are homosexual. In the animal kingdom a homosexual act is an act of dominance. Besides we are above animals and do not bow to such unnatural desires. We wont even discuss the point of intruding a penis into the bodies waste receptical. Before you go there, no I do not approve of anal with a woman either. If you have a perfectly fine vagina right there why would you prefer a butt hole.
Think about this one as well. When two men are intimate all they do is emulate heterosexual sex. One penis goes into a hole. When two women are intimate they simply emulate or copy heterosexual sex. They use fake penises. How does two men together or women together copying heterosexual sex seem normal and right to you?

I am not 'Wrong' and you are not wrong,

i did not select my sexuality, i know it's hard for people to believe that we can be born this way because it defies 'Gods Plan' but those are the facts, i did not select my sexuality at birth, i did not wake up one day and decide who i will be attracted to just to 'Defy Nature' or to demoralize this world of 'Normal Straight People'

why does it have to be 'Heterosexual sex' Versus 'homosexual Sex'? sex is sex, no one sexuality has that monopoly on it, because there are many straight people who practice anal sex, so i ask you this is it Normal for a straight to practice 'Homosexual sex'? does that seems normal and right to you?


i'm sorry you have such a closed mind you can't accept that i am a Human, and my sexuality doesn't make me any less,

your belief in your religion is your personal belief, and you have the freedom to do so, as long as it doesn't compromise my rights/privileges/freedoms, as long as it doesn't turn into discrimination, but that is not the 'Law of the land' and you nor anyone may utilize that as a reason why we can't get married if we want too

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Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

Sure I can and the States can as well. As much as you and other perverts try you cannot hide the fact that the US is still primarily Christian. Problem is most Christians are afraid to stand up and speak out. They are afraid of backlash and being publicly politically incorrect. Believe me most people I know claim to be Christian and will agree with me in full when at Church or in private but cower down in the face of you people. I myself do not cower down.

'My People' don't either, you call me a pervert, i've been called worse, i've been through much worse then being named called on a message board based on my sexuality, and in since i'm in my early twenties i know i'll have much more,

don't lower yourself to such name callings, talk to me as a Human

many of your religious leaders have proven to be perverts and pedophiles, and whilst you may believe that all Christians are pure, there are a multitude that are not, that hide behind closed doors their fetishes and perversions, guess what, we are all Human,

i have never said that we are 'Perfect' there are Gay rapist, gay murders, gays theft, equally Straight murders, straight rapist, and straight theft, there are Religious Murders, Religious rapist and religious theft,

how much blood shed and wars were based on 'Religious Reason'? how many based on 'Homosexual Reasons'?

you are free to believe what you want, these protesters have the right and freedom to protest whatever they want, but we have equal rights to protest, we have equal rights to exist,

Sorry, but the separation of Church and State is supposed to prevent such actions, i could care if 90% of the world was Christian, you can't make decisions for the populace based on Religious principles and Dogma

reply to post by Christian Voice


Same-sex marriage debate has all to do with gender equality but need not involve sexual relations in the least. What goes on in someone else's bedroom should not concern you in the slightest either. I find it rather repugnant your idle speculations in that regard, likewise would find it offensive hearing a description of what you consider "normal" or "natural" bedroom behavior. Obviously you have given much more thought to those mechanical matters than myself but that has little or no relevance to this topic.

Marriage is first and foremost a domestic civil arrangement between two persons for the purpose of setting up household and companionship or for any number of other attending purposes. Your ideas of morality in these circumstances are strictly a matter for your own personal concern and have no relevance in regards to other persons bonding under these statutes. Seeking to deny other persons these opportunities based on your subjective views of what is moral, natural, and proper is supremely egotistic and selfish.

i would be more than obliged to get back to the topic at hand, save the attacking remarks and name calling,

but it seems that is the only thing people can't revert too, as much doesn't hold a legitimate argument

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reply to post by SQUEALER


The old testament is irrelevant. This pisses me off to no end. "well the old testament says"

The old testament also says women need to leave town during their whole menses cycle, have their clothes burned, and wash before coming back in. It also stipulates which beards are okay. It also describes God's repeated infanticide and instructions for pillaging and slavery.

It also said if a man's wife dies, his brother should take her for his own.

It also says that picking up wood to keep your family warm on the sabbath deserves a death sentence.

It also stipulates how we should cut the throats of cattle, which organs to remove and which to throw away like garbage, and how to burn blood on the alter because God enjoys the aroma of blood.


and on and on.

Tell me ,Christians. What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nothing. What would he think, the so-called prince of peace, who said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? What would he think, who hung around with prostitutes and thieves?

Oh, and please tell me how this verse paints him in a peaceful light

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

— Luke 19:27 (NIV)

Please don't use the old testament to defile the rights of loving people. Either god is all-loving and does not condemn a loving relationship of any kind, or god is not all-loving. Or not real at all.

I am going to put a bible in the garbage today. Where it belongs. Where it has belonged for a thousand years. So much agony, loss, and suffering incited by that goddamn book.