Why many Republicans hate Europe and lie about the situation there?

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posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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When studying the US political culture I have noticed the tendency of Republican party being very anti-Europe in their statements, often outragiously lying about the situation there, whether consciously or due to lack of knowledge. Of course, also democrats used it, but republicans were the worst...

Europe is often portrayed as being socialistic overtaxed nanny-state, where people have no rights and opportunities, while all the money is taken by the government. And what is sad, many people believe it, especially less intelligent ones, who have not travelled - the propaganda works. In ATS there are overally intelligent people with wider horizon, so here it is not a problem, yet it is uncommon to see posts, which are based on biased assumptions...

Republicans Bash Europe in Search of Votes


Conservatives Hate Europe More for its Culture than its Economics


www.spiegel.de...


Europe is socialist, bloated and a threat to the global economy. That appears to be the message from the ongoing presidential campaign in the US. Republicans in particular have discovered Europe as a convenient punching bag -- and have even begun accusing each other of being too "European."


Interesting article on the matter from: bowdoinorient.com...


Lately, the Republican presidential candidates have taken it upon themselves to collectively portray Europe as a nightmarish fantasy world. Rick Santorum, Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich have all made allegations that Europe is in the chokehold of socialism, burdened by large welfare systems and high taxes, an anathema to their vision for America.

Yet the GOP's portrayal of Europe as Kafkaesque and restrictive is nothing like the Europe that I, and hundreds of millions of other Europeans, know.

Last weekend, for instance, Mr. Santorum claimed that euthanasia accounted for "10 percent of all deaths for the Netherlands" and that, in half of those cases, patients are "euthanized involuntarily." But this statement has no basis in reality: euthanasia accounts for less than 1 percent of all deaths in the Netherlands.

Moreover, Dutch law states that no person can be euthanized unless they have expressed a desire to die on multiple occasions and at least two doctors confirm that the patient is either terminally ill or in unbearable pain.

In other European countries where assisted suicide is legal (Switzerland, Luxembourg and Belgium), laws are similarly strict. When it comes to discussing Europe, the Republican Party has a strong urge to ignore the facts and rely solely upon its invented European socialist bogeyman.

The Republicans' biggest bogeyman of all is not European, but the Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare"), which they claim is part of President Obama's wider "plot" to turn this country into a North American iteration of Sweden, because wanting healthy citizens is reprehensible and a guarantee of financial ruin.

Once again, the facts do not give any support to the Republican position. A 2009 report published in the American Journal of Public Health found that "lack of health insurance is associated with as many as 44,789 deaths per year in the United States," and a report by the World Health Organization ranked the American health care system as the most expensive in the world, which is hardly reflected in the fact that life expectancy in this country ranks 50th in the world, behind the "socialist" European Union.

Likewise, Republican assertions that "socialism" and financial crises go hand in hand also have no basis in fact.

The countries of southern Europe, the targets of these groundless claims, are not victims of socialist over-management but rather of a lack of adequate oversight and control.

As Harold Myerson pointed out in The Washington Post, the problems in Europe's most fiscally tormented nations "stem not from overspending but from a failure to regulate their banks."

Oddly, the more "socialist" nations of northern Europe are doing rather well. The Economist reported last July that Sweden's economy was growing by 6.4 percent annually and that public debt was at less than half of the nation's GDP.

In spite of these favorable numbers, Republicans continue to bash Sweden's socioeconomic policies, warning of the terrible consequences that a similar setup would have in the United States.

As usual, this perception has no connection to reality. The World Economic Forum—hardly a socialist organization—recently decreased the United States' ranking to fifth overall in competitiveness and 90th in macroeconomic stability globally. Ahead of the U.S. in competitiveness are Switzerland, Singapore, Sweden and Finland. All three of those European countries are social democracies, which does not negate their status as strong capitalist nations.

I'll be the first to admit that Europe is far from perfect, as are all other nations and regions. However, the idea that the Old World of Europe is home to tyrannical and oppressive nation-states is as far from reality as a misinformed fantasty.

Messrs. Romney, Gingrich and Santorum seem to typify the sad reality of the Republican Party today, in which selective ignorance is the norm. For the GOP, creating a foreign bogeyman to rail against is privileged over creating actual policies to deal with American problems.


Mitt Romney on Europe last year: rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...


Mr. Obama has been branded as a “European” by his G.O.P. rivals in the same way that some opponents once suggested he was a Muslim. And Mr. Romney has led the pack in what has become a theme of his campaign.
“He wants to turn America into a European-style entitlement society,” Mr. Romney said of the president back in January. “We want to ensure that we remain a free and prosperous land of opportunity.”


It is just sad to look at, how misinforming the information is on the matter... Like European countries are not free and prosperous lands of opportunities. Having lived in several different countries all over Europe, I have had all the opportunities and rights, even a bit more than when living in US to be honest...I have nothing against US, although I severely dislike the way European nations are portrayed by the Republican Party.

The situations in Greece and Spain are told to be from welfare? It is just terrible misinformation... It was not their left-wing policies that led them to where they are, but financial mismanagement (Greece overpaid their public sector, was too corrupt paying too much for things, Spain´s situation comes from the bad loans, just like in US. After the US bank crashed, the recession also came to Spain, which lead to many people not being able to pay their loans, which crashed the bubble...)

What are the reasons behind their misinformed messages? Just politics and getting more votes from less intelligent people?
edit on 26-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:07 PM
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Republicans believe that if someone else offers you too much help it will stun your development as an independent minded person. This means that instead of developing the skills necessary to exist on your own, you'll either develop them slower or you'll not develop them at all.

We don't give money to people who participated. We give money to people who contributed. And contribution is measured in strict terms, not in arbitrary ways that reward everyone.

The differnece between us and you is that we feel very strongly that we should not help someone unless they first help themselves. And even then we should be cautious about helping too much.

It fosters a world in which government is supposed to be weak. A world in which a person can be anything if they're able to do what's necessary. A world where individual responsibility is emphasized. If you mess up, there're consequences. Everyone is held accountable for their actions.

BUT somehow our government is big. Republicans blame this on democrats and liberalism. Sometimes they blame it on secularism. Sometimes they blame computers and technology. Whatever they blame, it usually involves blaming something that disconnected us from personal responsibility.

Independents can sometimes express opinions that're both parties.
edit on 26-5-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
Republicans believe that if someone else offers you too much help it will stun your development as an independent minded person. This means that instead of developing the skills necessary to exist on your own, you'll either develop them slower or you'll not develop them at all.

We don't give money to people who participated. We give money to people who contributed. And contribution is measured in strict terms, not in arbitrary ways that reward everyone.

The differnece between us and you is that we feel very strongly that we should not help someone unless they first help themselves. And even then we should be cautious about helping too much.

It fosters a world in which government is supposed to be weak. A world in which a person can be anything if they're able to do what's necessary. A world where individual responsibility is emphasized. If you mess up, there're consequences. Everyone is held accountable for their actions.

BUT somehow our government is big. Republicans blame this on democrats and liberalism. Sometimes they blame it on secularism. Sometimes they blame computers and technology. Whatever they blame, it usually involves blaming something that disconnected us from personal responsibility.

Independents can sometimes express opinions that're both parties.
edit on 26-5-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)


You did not answer my question. I see Republican views are opposed to what most European nations are applying, but does it justify the lying and giving out disinformation?

It seems to me you are implying as if European countries do not value personal responsibility? Personal responsibility is valued everywhere, that is not the difference. Personal responsibility gets rewarded everywhere, whether you are from US or any European nation. People who work hard are rewarded well.


In many cases though one can not be held personal responsible.

Should a person be held personally responsible for genetic diseases? Should one be held responsible for falling ill because of a virus caught at work? Should one be held responsible for being born disabled?

My employer is paying 13% on my salary (so a total of he spends my salary+ 13% on top of it). I can get quality healthcare fast from good doctors anywhere in EU. I believe many Americans are paying far more for their insurance... I do not have to worry about finances when i am ill, as I still get my sick leave. If my wife would have a child, she would get 3 years of paid maternity leave from her job or I would get paternity leave. A baby needs to be taken care of by his/her parents, especially in the first years to develop well. Should a child be held responsible when family is poor and mother/father need to work at that period?


Should a child be held responsible for the misdoings of his/her parents? If a child is born into poor family and has average IQ, it ishard to get into a good university without huge loans.

That is the difference between here and US. Here your parents wealth does not affect your education. The universities do not cost + there are no private schools, while the public education system is strong. A young people does not need to start there life with a huge amount of loans... There is an opportunity for everyone, whether your parents are poor or not. In America, such opportunity comes with finances from the parents. Is that personal responsibility? One has far more opportunities to rise to the top, when being born into a poor family than in US.


If a company goes bankrupt because of poor financial decisions at the top, should the employees be held responsible for losing their job?

Here I have the security of when losing my job, I would get a fair amount of my last job salary and extra trainings, so I could I can back on track. During the recession many people lost their job, because of their companies going bankrupt because of bad decisions from the bosses and the banks.


Such social security is important for a stong society. The crime rates are extremely low thanks to that, as one does not need to turn into crime in order to survive + I still earn more than average american does (net salary), yet I have it covered for all the other areas. Me and my future kids are covered, if bad times would come, which is out of our control.

There are too many things which are out of control of one. Should one be held responsible for such things which are out of their control, matters of unluck and decisions from the above and one´s parents?

Of course, some people try to use the system, but at least me, I get more than I want for what I pay as taxes and still enough is left of the salary.

The Myth of Low-Tax America: Why Americans Aren't Getting Their Money's Worth




No, we don't pay as much as most of Europe. We don't get nearly as much, either.

"If Americans knew what Swedes receive for their taxes, we would probably riot,"
edit on 26-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Europe WAS socialist and has transitioned into a liberal stronghold after privatising all state assets. I think it is a mistake to continue labeling europe as socialist or progressive. They have become liberal like USA has, both having a large overbloated social welfare state.

Socialism implies state ownership of the means of production to some degree.

Republicans have lied about europe for a long time because they are conservatives and believe in free trade with no welfare state or at a maximum a very tiny welfare state. They hate welfare state and believe in self responsiblity, charity work, business domination, religious, dislike minorities, want small government but big military, etc.

Conservatism is the anathema of sustainable development and collective responsibility. They are selfish, racists, hard working, shrewd, etc.

Liberals are something between conservatives and progressives.

Generally speaking americans look down on europe because they are very right on the political spectrum.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Anytime I see a politician compare the U.S. and European governments, I pretty much blow it off. Of course I have lived in Germany and traveled extensively throughout Europe. So I believe what my eyes and brain tell me.

They are two different experiments. But one must learn from the results. So far, there are no real riots throughout the U.S.

I would say that puts us up in the plus column.

Then again, we have the Dems and the Repubs doing their own experiment. Who knows where that will lead?



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Cabin
 


Anytime I see a politician compare the U.S. and European governments, I pretty much blow it off. Of course I have lived in Germany and traveled extensively throughout Europe. So I believe what my eyes and brain tell me.

They are two different experiments. But one must learn from the results. So far, there are no real riots throughout the U.S.

I would say that puts us up in the plus column.

Then again, we have the Dems and the Repubs doing their own experiment. Who knows where that will lead?


Both the tea party and occupy have demonstrated. Of course they were not riots, but they could have turned violent non the less.

Europeans are more demanding of their government and that is why government respects them MORE than the american government respects americans. What you call a plus is actually a minus. Continued tolerance leads to submission and continued submission leads to tyranny.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


I can see your side of the argument.

Gonna have to think on that for a bit.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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The Republicans ? Meh, sour grapes.

The Eurozone countries need some credit [sic] for facing up to their financial woes. USA hasn't.
And the EU deserves praise for acting as an occasional brake to US foreign policy excesses, although tbh the Republicans are so detached from reality they'd take on the entire world without blinking an eye.

The Republicans are probably just jealous.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Cabin
many people believe it, especially less intelligent ones, who have not travelled -

I find that really obnoxious.

I've traveled all over the planet and have a four year degree (and I'm fairly intelligent) ... and I can see Europe for what it is .. something I want no part of.

Do you think republicans are 'less intelligent and non-travelled' than other people' ??
Do you think that you have to travel to be intelligent?
And seeing Europe for what it is and wanting no part of it .. that makes someone unintelligent?

If you answer 'yes' to any of those three questions .... then phooey on you.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to


[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330247/Sweden-flames-As-gangs-migrants-riot-nights-running--Utopian-boats-multicultural-success-story-tu rn-ashes.html" target="_blank" class="postlink">Sweden in flames


Liberal policies are awesome, right?

Sweden is expected to receive at least 18,000 Syrians in 2013 alone. Since September 2012, asylum seekers have arrived in Sweden at the rate of 1,250 per week. Sweden is a prime destination for asylum seekers because the country offers new immigrants free housing and social welfare benefits upon arrival. Many immigrants are segregated from Swedish society and often live in areas where much of the population comes from countries other than Sweden. This in turn has encouraged the creation of parallel societies and the establishment of so-called no-go zones, parts of Sweden that are off limits to non-Muslims. In some areas, no-go zones function as microstates governed by Islamic Sharia law where Swedish authorities have effectively lost control and are unable to provide even basic public aid such as police, fire fighting and ambulance services.


Swedish Multiculturalism Goes Awry



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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Yeah well people love Europe so much they are free to move there, but nooooooooooooooo they want to turn the US into Europe, they have done such a bang up job so far.

Have people forgotten just exactly how, and why this country was founded?

Because they got sick of Europe.

And please stop putting words in 'republicans' mouths and the situation is not that great.

The massive nanny state is a fact.
The record debt is a fact.
The failure of multiculturalism is also a fact given last week news.

Carry on with the hyperbole by all means,.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by MsAphrodite
 


Please look at the economic model, not social one...

Nordic model works well economically, the social safety network is very strong.

Economically the welfare-state there works well. Last year the budget was in positive balance. There was money left over... The economy is also more competitive than in US.

Think about the same system, but with strong immigration laws.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


No I'm looking at reality. What the system leads to, and therefore what the system really is. It is where all of the European system is headed and has landed. It's not great. It's not even good.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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European markets down as France slips into recession

Markets are down across Europe

Please do tell us more about how great things are in Europe.




posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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It's inpiring to be lectured by Americans on multiculturalism when your own grandchildren will be learning Spanish as their primary language. Whatever happened to your great big melting pot ?

USA is as screwed over as EU when it comes to immigration so get off your high horses, minutemen.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I would not answer yes to any of these questions. Please don´t twist my words...

They are lying about the situation in EU, that is the thing. If you have other reasons to support them, I do not mind. Yet many statements have been outrageous lies... in order to win more votes.

They create an "enemy" by lying about the situation in Europe. After that they use it to promote the opposite action.

If one had travelled and was more intelligent with broader horizon, he would see through the lies... So such arguments as they bring win votes from less intelligent ones, who BELIEVE in Europeans having no rights and opportunities in their socialistic countries, where all the money goes to taxes.... That is BS... No intelligent person with broad horizon would believe such information...

Imagine if some EU country party wanted to get votes by saying
"Americans have no rights and opportunities. If you don´t want the same for us... Vote for me"

That is what Republicans were doing during the campaign...



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by MsAphrodite
 


I am not saying things are great, but they are far from what the Republican party has painted picture of.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by MsAphrodite
 


Why would one want to immigrate to such countries then? The reason why the immigration is happening in the first-place is the fact that a country is doing well... Poorer countries in EU (especially post-soviet ones) have nearly zero-immigration.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by jonnywhite
 


That philosophy doesn't seem to be working too well for a lot of Americans.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Cabin
 


No I'm looking at reality. What the system leads to, and therefore what the system really is. It is where all of the European system is headed and has landed. It's not great. It's not even good.


Where is it heading and where has it landed?





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