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Why are there So Many Radical British Muslims?

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posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:01 AM
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"Why does Islam, and British Islam in particular, have so many extremists?"

Well we allowed 100,000s of people of the Muslim and Indian persuasion to immigrate into this country during the 50s, 60s, and 70s. We managed to assimilate them into our society without religious extremism becoming a prevalent issue.

Then comes the ethnic cleansing of former Yugoslavia and surrounding nations, Gulf war one and two also. This created millions of political refugees and extremists who essentially blame the west for the above, sometimes with good reason i might add.

The clincher is we then allowed these religious extremists to seek political asylum/immigrate to the UK. Whole new ball game im afraid. These people are not even proper Human Beings, the things they do to their own children are deplorable ie Mercy killings, arranged marriage, female circumcision, Sharia law, the list goes on.

They refuse to integrate themselves into our society time to ask ourselves why we allow them to remain here? Since they obviously have no intention of becoming part of or our nation or contributing in any meaningful manner.
edit on 26-5-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by RAY1990
I do have a serious question for you though,

After we send all the muslims (a lot british born muslims) to some other country because they are all extreme, will you be saying the same thing about those who hail from the republic of Ireland?


Not all of the Republic of Ireland's Muslims are so moderate


• 57% of young Irish Muslims (under 26) believe Ireland should become an Islamic State.

• 59% of Irish Muslims disagree that "people in Ireland should be free to say whatever they want, even if it offends other people's religious beliefs". 35% agree.

• 37% of Irish Muslims would like Ireland to be governed as an Islamic state. 50% said they would not.

Irish Independent


One Iman has been battling growing radicalization in Ireland.


Shaheed Satardien, a dissident Imam who blew the whistle on those seeking to aggressively spread a version of Islam in Ireland that brooks no accommodation with Western values.

He has since been ostracised and demonised by the Muslim establishment. They have questioned his credentials to preach and claim he speaks for no one.

Shaheed refuses to be silenced.

Irish Independent


edit on 26-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Yup i find it incredibly difficult to debate with anyone who says that the blame for violent Islamic extremism falls on the Islamic faith itself. It implies that all Muslims are the problem

Its just such a ignorant and bigoted statement that i can’t converse meaningfully with a person who has such views.

The cause of Islamic extremism is so much more complex than the faith itself, if it were the faith itself then we would have almost every Muslim in the UK blowing themselves up so it can’t be that so it must be something linked in. That something is radical Islamic ideological teachings that are followed by a very small minority and a whole load of other socioeconomic and psychological factors that all lead to a otherwise normal individual becoming radicalised.

The guys who hacked up Lee Rigby were raised as Christians I think that says quite allot.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I think a lot has to do with who funds the Mosques and Madrassah schools in the UK. I believe there is a large Saudi influence, that is preaching a fundamentalist approach to Islam.
There also seems to be an attempt by the more extreme elements to prey on vulnerable young Brits.


I think that is very true.

Apparently over a decade ago, the Saudis had already spent $87 billion building Mosques in the West. The problem is, the Saudis are Wahhbis, the hardcore Muslims.

National Review

Almost all Muslim terrorists (if not all) are Wahhabi or Salafi (which is very similar).

That nice new mosque near where you live? The money almost certainly came from Saudi radicals intent on spreading the most intolerant and violent form of Islam in the West.


Safa writes that the Saudis have spent “$87 billion since 1973 to spread Islam throughout the United States and the Western hemisphere.”

Elsewhere in the world, it is believed that Saudi Arabia finances some 85-percent of the world’s mosques, where the vitriolic and violent Wahabbist interpretation of Islam is taught.

National Review



Well I am surprised. I agree with you. The further issue is that a lot of these extremists seem to be of the young canon-fodder type. Cast your mind back to your late teen's and se how simple and impressionable you and your peers were.

Another factor is general fear and instability of the west. The middle classes are feeling dreadfully isolated and threatened so inevitably the majority of western society must be feeling the same fear. Hence a simplistic world view , be it political (fascism as communism has discredited itself) or religious fundamentalism finds fertile soil.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:14 AM
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What we're going to have to do about these preachers is really unpalatable, it goes against what most of us in the EU and / or Anglosphere believe. We're going to have to treat these preachers and their followers almost like Nazis after WW2. Then the cleansing process was called épuration, or de-Nazification in English.

We'll have to censor , confiscate all their hateful publications, all their media, all their videos on youtube. Anyone guilty of creating/distributing such material will have to be jailed, interned, whatever, same as those who have it in their possession, as literature, or electronically on their pc's or cellphones. Jail them. Those ISPs overseas which allow their networks to distribute such material online to our countries need taking out, one way or another. We need to ban these preachers & their followers from employment, ban them from from receiving benefits, ban them from every asect of a normal life. Perhaps that way they'll take the hint and go elsewhere.

Far from continually criticizing the USA for Guantanamo (and much of what passes for continental European political discourse is simply anti-American, absolutely disgraceful), we need to set up such places in the EU where these people can be jailed/interned if they don't leave of their own free will.

We need to make life really difficult for them now, really difficult.

I say all this and I don't consider myself racialist, either.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by gladtobehere

People like you wont even admit the long standing tradition of your nation's imperialism. Just two years ago, your government attacked yet another so called "Muslim" nation, Libya.


So you are a believer in the Muslim Ummah (brotherhood of Muslims globally as one people)?

Ummah


Muslim Ummah absolutely refers to the unity of Muslims all over the world.

It is a communal word which divides people into two classes: one of them is Muslim and the other is non Muslim.

Link


Didn't the bigger chap in Woolwich who beheaded the soldier not state that 'his people' were being killed in Afghanistan?

He was born in Lambeth, London.

edit on 26-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


I was aiming at Irish Republican Army terrorist attacks here in the UK... those attackers were predominantly christian... Catholic infact, they might have dealed with muslims to further their cause and agenda but muslims did not blow up police stations and shops up and down the country.

I was meaning, once all the followers of Islam are dealt with should we be ready for round two? Sending white Irish catholics back home.

Fact is though we are all immigrants on these isles, genetically all except the Welsh and Irish bloodlines originate from elsewhere simply because they didn't intergrate with the waves of foriegners, that in time called this place home. Britain has never changed in that sense and it never will.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Yup i find it incredibly difficult to debate with anyone who says that the blame for violent Islamic extremism falls on the Islamic faith itself. It implies that all Muslims are the problem

Its just such a ignorant and bigoted statement that i can’t converse meaningfully with a person who has such views.



Well, I know you aren't a Muslim as you clearly know little about Islam.

For instance, Muhammad himself was an extremely violent man who spread Islamic domination by the sword. All Muslims know that.

Some of the violent and intolerant episodes in his life were


• Pronounced death for leaving Islam, Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Book 83 Volume 9, Number 17

• Told followers that Jihad was the second highest thing after believing in Allah, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

• Stated he would fight until everyone admitted their was only one god, Allah, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 24

Burnt people for not praying Sahih Bukhari Book 1, Vol 11, Verse 626

Forced non Muslims to be humbled, submit to Islam and pay jizyah tax.Koran Book 9 Verse 29


You also appear to not be aware that Muhammad led armies. Very large armies.


• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.

• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.

• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)


To claim that 'violent Islamic extremism' isn't part of the Islamic faith demonstrates your ignorance of what you strive to defend.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by RAY1990

I was aiming at Irish Republican Army terrorist attacks here in the UK... those attackers were predominantly christian...


It is worrying that a small but very violent minority of IRA extremists dominated the Northern Irish Catholic Community so successfully.


Originally posted by RAY1990
Fact is though we are all immigrants on these isles, genetically all except the Welsh and Irish bloodlines originate from elsewhere simply because they didn't intergrate with the waves of foriegners, that in time called this place home. Britain has never changed in that sense and it never will.


I'm not anti-immigration. I am anti-Islamic extremist immigration.

And who isn't?



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:36 AM
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The problem isn’t really just about Muslims, but those who act upon their beliefs in the NAME of Islam. All it takes is one or two people to grab headlines for a week. Couple that with the silence and acquiescence of their fellow believers and you have a recipe for disaster in the making.

Islam is in need of restructuring, much as Christianity did and continues to do, but it must come from within. Religion is a form of power and control and as long as the various imams and mullahs interpret the Koran to their liking, it’s not going to change.

Until Islam reforms, it’s going to be a vicious circle. And the few will continue to make the many look, and possibly act, bad.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Good points and agreed


The will of the few can easily twist the many, I agree with LeBombDiggity's post above we need to surgically remove radicalized Islamists from our society, it's hard to to that without abusing human rights and becoming radicalized ourselves though isn't it.

We all need to tackle extremism in all of it's forms and we can only do that together as a whole society, otherwise extremists will always be present here in some way or form.

edit on 26-5-2013 by RAY1990 because: bad spelling



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
Islam is in need of restructuring, much as Christianity did and continues to do, but it must come from within. Religion is a form of power and control and as long as the various imams and mullahs interpret the Koran to their liking, it’s not going to change.

Until Islam reforms, it’s going to be a vicious circle. And the few will continue to make the many look, and possibly act, bad.


Apparently, Islam did undergo a moderating period in the late 19th century.

These days however it is the rich Arab states and Saudi in particular which are spreading the intolerant Wahhabi brand of Islam around the world.

Every time you are filling your car up with gas, you are helping to spread Islam's most intolerant strand of Islam. Apparently something like 80% of all mosques in the West were financed by extremist Wahhabi money.

And then we wonder why we have a problem with Islamic extremism?

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques

Huffington Post



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by RAY1990
reply to post by ollncasino
 


We all need to tackle extremism in all of it's forms and we can only do that together as a whole society, otherwise extremists will always be present here in some way or form.

edit on 26-5-2013 by RAY1990 because: bad spelling


All to often though, the way to tackle (IE: combat) extremism is to become extremist yourself. At some point, you have to say, enough is enough.

It's rarely a peaceful process.

To paraphrase the Koran; When your enemies are stronger than you, lay low and blend in, when you are stronger...attack. Hell, that's right out of SunTzu's "Art of War" and just plain common sense.

I am in no way saying that we should keep Islam under the boot, but it may just come to that.

Just as people say that the U.S. cannot continue to run on a 200+ year old document (something I would argue as it has that amendments thing.
)

I would argue that the WORLD cannot run on a 7th Century document. Which by the way, cannot be changed according to it's own teachings.
edit on 26-5-2013 by TDawgRex because: Just a ETA



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 





Just as people say that the U.S. cannot continue to run on a 200+ year old document (something I would argue as it has that amendments thing. :up


Personally if I was an American citizen I wouldn't trust the best of today's politicians to change such a well constructed document, it is all but fact that changes would end up being done for greed and not for the good of citizens. As I understand it the constitution of the USA still does a good job protecting Americans ability to be free and liberated, if it ain't broke don't fix it.




I would argue that the WORLD cannot run on a 7th Century document. Which by the way, cannot be changed according to it's own teachings.


Such a big documentation can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, that's why these extremists believe they are justified in this holy war as they see it. Personally I'd rather they would not use it by the word and a way to live life by a book, I'd rather people just read it and get some good points and apply the theory in general in life. the Koran could do plenty of good that way, evil people using scripture to commit evil acts is the reality that has been the bane of all religions throughout history though isn't it.

I agree though that the world cannot run on this document alone or any other religious document for that matter. As we advance we should also advance the ideals we live and work by.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by RAY1990
Personally I'd rather they would not use it by the word and a way to live life by a book,


That is the problem the world over. People cherry pick laws and religious texts to reinforce their own belief structure.

I wonder what would happen to the world if we got rid of all priests, imams, rabbis and lawyers, but kept the laws and religions? (Well, get rid of the 99% of lawyers that make the 1% look bad.)

Anarchy I tell you!
Can't have people actually thinking for themselves.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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Heloooo Op! We are in their countries making war. Think this might have just a tiny bit of a reason to do with it.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:27 AM
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There are two sides of most religions world wide.

The soft side - where they are genuine and do define the law in numerous positive ways.

And the hard side - where they seek as many converts as possible and think everyone else unholy or unenlightened ones.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Heloooo Op! We are in their countries making war. Think this might have just a tiny bit of a reason to do with it.


Woolwich attack: Attacker was British-born of Nigerian descent, says source

Woolwich attacker Michael Adebolajo was born in Lambeth London.

He is of Nigerian descent. We aren't in Nigeria making war either.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


Circumcision on boys or girls is a ritual, no medical reasons for it.
edit on 26-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Its not his descent that matters in this its who he was around, you dont seem to be getting it still. He was around this extemist Imam and his friends and took on their way of thinking. Didnt you see the protest photos yet? Of the ones he was involved with.






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