Is heaven really perfect?

Say you're a Christian and you raise a son or daughter who turns out to be an atheist or agnostic later in life. (This is not unheard of by any means.)

Once you get to heaven and your son or daughter never show up because of their beliefs, wouldn't you be sad or even disappointed knowing that you would never see them again and that they are suffering forever in hell?

If heaven is perfect, then how do you account for people being sad or distraught about some of their loved ones suffering in a pit full of fire for eternity? How would god alleviate this problem in heaven? Would he just erase your memories of these people or would he let you keep them?

If he lets you keep those memories, then how would you deal with that situation? Would you still be overjoyed at the thought of them suffering, or would you be sad?

If he just erases your memories of them, then another question comes up. What would have been the purpose of god putting that person in your life only to erase them afterwards? Isn't there a purpose for everything in god's plan?

This is just a thought I had. I'd really like to hear your opinions on it. Thanks for reading.

I just try not to think about that kind of stuff too much, it really gets you- no where. I'd love to see my wife (she passed) again but, what would happen if I got married again? I'd go to heaven and then have two of 'em on my case. Its just better to live and not think about such things. I try to have a lot of good books on hand if my mind starts to wonder (usually when you go to bed) anyway...nobody really knows.. really.

I'm going to assume Christians get their seventy five virgins unless Muslims are truly ahead of the curve so I think you would be too busy to worry about it

reply to post by minkmouse




Good answer, I guess? Thanks for the chuckle.

Originally posted by minkmouse
I'm going to assume Christians get their seventy five virgins unless Muslims are truly ahead of the curve so I think you would be too busy to worry about it

Surrounded by a bunch of virgins in heaven. Hey, having one woman is bad enough, seventy five...That would be hell. I'd never get a chance to go fishing or to beer camp.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


That's a pretty good question and, as an orthodox Christian, I don't have a good answer, sorry. We are told that "there will be no tears in heaven", but how that all works out, practically, are details that we do not have.

In Defending Your Life, an Albert Brooks film (and I really, really do not like Albert Brooks, it's the only film of his that I give him "a pass", lol,) he speculates that the afterlife is completely detached from one's earthly life, so you might know that your son/daughter is condemned, but it has no impact on you. I guess that's a solution, but I don't know that I agree with it -- if I don't care about my daughter, am I still me?

So, like I said, good question, no good answer, because there is no basis to form one, sorry.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Say you're a Christian and you raise a son or daughter who turns out to be an atheist or agnostic later in life. (This is not unheard of by any means.)
Once you get to heaven and your son or daughter never show up because of their beliefs, wouldn't you be sad or even disappointed knowing that you would never see them again and that they are suffering forever in hell?
If heaven is perfect, then how do you account for people being sad or distraught about some of their loved ones suffering in a pit full of fire for eternity? How would god alleviate this problem in heaven? Would he just erase your memories of these people or would he let you keep them?
If he lets you keep those memories, then how would you deal with that situation? Would you still be overjoyed at the thought of them suffering, or would you be sad?
If he just erases your memories of them, then another question comes up. What would have been the purpose of god putting that person in your life only to erase them afterwards? Isn't there a purpose for everything in god's plan?This is just a thought I had. I'd really like to hear your opinions on it. Thanks for reading.

First premise; you dont have to be a Christian to arrive in that place of beauty; its of your own derivation/creation of afterlife (can be anything you desire). If your family arrives as well its a gift. Do you not realise, its YOUR CHOICE. You create your afterlife. No Fear. Hell only exists if you believe it to be so. If you want to suffer you will. God does not exist as a mandible, only as intelligent design, you are God as carnate and can/will create whatever hellfire or bliss you desire. Why would you think otherwise? IT IS YOU. You retain the memories, you deal with the INFERNO of such. Your plan is Gods plan because you ARE PART AND PARCIL. STEP UP for GODS SAKE, YOURS to claim and BE.

Originally posted by rickymouse

Originally posted by minkmouse
I'm going to assume Christians get their seventy five virgins unless Muslims are truly ahead of the curve so I think you would be too busy to worry about it

Surrounded by a bunch of virgins in heaven.

Hey, having one woman is bad enough, seventy five...That would be hell. I'd never get a chance to go fishing or to beer camp.

Not so much fun if you are the/a new female virgin joining the 70 and one has to be ousted to fit the count.

Consider (yeah, here I go again...) that if our lost loved ones are in a place of eternal torment, are we going to really, REALLY love God? Further, if our lost loved ones are in a place of eternal torment, then God can never be All in all. Happily, Jesus the Christ is the savior of ALL men, just especially those who believe. (paraphrase of I Timothy 4:10) Hell is a 404.

The fact is that none of us are perfect. We all carry sins, the bible says the path to heaven is to seek forgiveness for these sins by acknowledging what you have done wrong. But being sorry for something doesn't make you a perfect person. If entering heaven suddenly turns you into a perfect person then you might as well say it totally changes who you are and the way you think. To go from human to a "perfect" being would be a dramatic shift in consciousness, you would no longer be the same person. But of course all of this is a ridiculous exercise in postulation because the mere idea of some perfect reality is logically impossible, and even if it were possible I certainly wouldn't like to live in such a place. Don't get me wrong, I like a nice neighborhood with white picket fences and green lawns as far as the eye can see, but an eternal life spent in such a rainbow filled perfect world would drive me insane. Some times it's good to appreciate the imperfect things in life... it's that duality between chaos and order which really makes life worth living. But I don't expect many of you to understand that point.

EDIT: not to mention the definition of "perfect" is subjective, all of us see things differently. There's an old saying: one mans heaven is another mans hell.

reply to post by adjensen


Thank you for the honesty ad.

I personally cannot see myself living eternity knowing some of those I love will be suffering forever. I would see other parents/children playing/hanging out and it would always remind me of where my parent/child was, and I don't see how being reminded of where they are everyday could be considered eternal bliss. It would be painful knowing those things, yet there is no pain in heaven.

If god erases my memories of them, wouldn't these other people being with their loved ones seem kind of strange to me? Kind of like I'm somehow left out on that love in some way?

Just a few thoughts that are running through my head.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Revelation makes it clear that a sea of nations will come to repentance through the tribulation. Most people think that life ends at death and then you go to heaven or hell. This is not he case. You must be born again. Baptism is our immersion into the waters of the Jordan. Baptism is our literal birth. We are called out of the wilderness between the river and the promised land. We wander in the wilderness, but God continues to call us out of Egypt (Bondage to sin). God is long-suffering with us. Keep in mind that fire is also a baptism at the end of the age. While we are currently offered water to put out that fire, the fire will also cleanse the temple if what is burned yields to the flame and is remade. It depends on how hardened it is. Read this thread: Ceramic and Glass.

Again, there is 1000 years left between the time of the tribulation and the end of the week. What will God do to ensure that as many as possible find their way? Will all find their way? Hard to say, but with God, all things are possible. Since we are currently separated from God now, a connection still remains. I would offer to you that our loved ones will make it. Those who do not will be recognized for the evil they became by the end. It is one thing to be a love one, but yet another to burn all bridges to that love. We all have family members who have destroyed the love that is offered. In the end, I think we will pity them, but understand the reason they destroyed their chance at the gift God offered. This is why it is important to be a living witness for their benefit.

Remember, God came for the wicked, not the righteous. The righteous are already elected to salvation. It's the sick that need a doctor. That's why the righteous are still here today. It is their witness that still holds the world together. It is uncomfortable to watch people arrogantly spit in God's face, but this is a choice people make. There are no excuses for this in light of what is offered to us. Faith makes things possible, not easy.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I personally believe we are already in heaven. The universe is too complex, perfect, and beautiful for it not to be. I just brought this up in order to get some gears moving and discussion flowing.

If what we believe makes that thing real, then wouldn't that mean hell would not exist? If Christians believe they are going to heaven then they would go, if atheists don't believe in hell then it doesn't exist. So that would mean no one would go to hell, unless of course they wanted to, which I can't think of a reason for anyone wanting to suffer forever.

I agree that we are god incarnate, so no argument from me on that point.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


So you don't think a pit of eternal fire exists? If not, then how is knowing your loved ones don't exist anymore any better? You'd still be without them, and that loss would still be there.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The universe as a whole is pretty darn perfect isn't it? Everything works in order and nothing ever fails. If Earth blew up tomorrow, it wouldn't be a bat of an eye on a universal scale. Everything we could ever need is here, everything we could ever want is here as well.

The cosmos works in perfect unity. Some people confuse happenings on Earth as being the universal model. It isn't. Everything on a universal scale is absolutely perfect, no matter what happens here on this tiny planet.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Okay, I'm seeing a pattern with your posts. You come into threads and completely ignore the topic at hand and put forth your own dogma. You didn't address anything in the OP, you just went on your own little tirade that is completely off-topic. It happens in almost every thread you post in.

Change the record dude, because it sounds broken.

Personally, I'm not a believer but my mom was.

And if it is indeed true, it's now perfect with her in attendance.

Peace

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Okay, I'm seeing a pattern with your posts. You come into threads and completely ignore the topic at hand and put forth your own dogma. You didn't address anything in the OP, you just went on your own little tirade that is completely off-topic. It happens in almost every thread you post in.

Change the record dude, because it sounds broken.

LOL. I'm sorry but I had to immediately comment on this. It's spot on.

@OP, I posed a similar question once. What if your relatives, friends, and family were all sent to hell, but you were allowed access into the pearly white gates of heaven? Would you simply show indifference or plead to God for their salvation?

I never fully understood why God would create a guide to salvation in the form of an archaic holy book...

Theres no definition of.what is perfect. So basically, if you think something is.perfect, then it is for you even if it isnt for.others. Perfection is subjective. Earth is perfect.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I agree. If you ignore all the man made war, laws, dogma, etc., Earth is perfect in every way. The only problem is humans and their greed.