It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Insurgent Islam and American Collaboration

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 04:12 AM
link   
The cultural schism between the Western and Eastern halves of European Christian civilization marked principally by their respective religious traditions, Roman Catholic and Protestant in the West and Orthodox in the East, may or may not prove fatal. One issue stands above all others in determining the outcome: the Islamic resurgence that has rapidly come to mark the post-Cold War era. For the East, which borders on the Muslim world, the problem continues to be, as it has been since Islam first appeared in the seventh century, primarily one of direct, violent confrontation, which today stretches from the Balkans to the Caucasus, and throughout Central Asia. For the West, on the other hand, the problem today is primarily internal, a result of ideological confusion (which in many instances leads to active collaboration), coupled with demographic infiltration.

Last year, the county board of Loudoun County, Virginia, just a few miles down the road from the federal capital, granted a zoning variance, over vigorous local opposition, to facilitate the construction of a new Islamic academy. The institution is one of a number being constructed nationwide, and it will cover some 100 acres, include elementary, middle, and high schools, feature an 800-bed dormitory, and grace the rolling hills of the Virginia horse country with a 65-foot mosque dome and an 85-foot minaret.

County residents opposed the academy on a variety of grounds, notably the loss of tax revenue on land that was otherwise zoned for business uses and the security threat posed by the school, either from Muslims who would be attracted to the county or from the possibility that anti-Saudi Islamic groups might see the academy as a tempting target. But the critics' central issue--and the one that highlights Western incomprehension of the phenomenon in question--was the character of the Saudi regime, which, according to the school's bylaws, exercises total control, to the extent that the school is part of the structure of the Saudi Ministry of Education: an establishment of a foreign sovereign on American soil. Indeed, the Saudi ambassador is ex officio chairman.

Predictably, as soon as Saudi Arabia and Islam became the issues, progressive opinion responded that rejection of the school would be intolerance of "diversity." One county resident displayed a crescent and star in the window of her home to show symbolically that "Islam is welcome here." The ever-vigilant Washington Post weighed in with an editorial blasting opposition to the school as "religious intolerance" and "the worst kind of bigotry" on the part of retrograde denizens of the Old Dominion. "Ugly statements that have been made in public meetings on the issue have run the range of mean-spiritedness," sniffed the Post, "with some residents asserting that the school should be rejected because 'the Saudis execute their own people who convert from Islam.'"

In point of correction to the Post's sarcastic quotation marks, the 1997 U.S. Department of State Report on Human Rights Practices states the following about Saudi Arabia:
    Freedom of religion does not exist. Islam is the official religion and all [Saudi] citizens must be Muslims. . . . Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy. Public apostasy is considered a crime under Shari'a law and punishable by death. (that link is here)
So which is more "ugly" and "mean-spirited"--the fact that the Saudis do indeed behead those who abandon Islam or that Loudoun citizens have been tactless enough to take note of that fact? One witness before the county board testified that her daughters, who are U.S. citizens, have been prevented from leaving Saudi Arabia for over 13 years because, as women, they may not travel, even though the elder one is now an adult, without their Saudi father's permission. The girls have been forcibly converted to Islam and can only look forward to their eventual marriage, for which their consent is at best a formality.

I encourage you to read on...




posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 10:50 AM
link   
Im all for tolerance but not all things need to be tolerated
I dont not extend a welcoming hand to Nazis, Muslims, neo Nazis, Klan members or any ‎other hate group.‎
Just because a movement is popular or obnoxious does mean it is beneficial



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 12:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Im all for tolerance but not all things need to be tolerated
I dont not extend a welcoming hand to Nazis, Muslims, neo Nazis, Klan members or any other hate group.
Just because a movement is popular or obnoxious does mean it is beneficial


i find it extremely obnoxious to see you classify muslims into the same group as nazis, neo nazis, and klan members.
believe it or not, there are kind, gentle, and humane muslims out there.

you are ignorant in your views, something abovetopsecret is against.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by hallucinated

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Im all for tolerance but not all things need to be tolerated
I dont not extend a welcoming hand to Nazis, Muslims, neo Nazis, Klan members or any other hate group.
Just because a movement is popular or obnoxious does mean it is beneficial


i find it extremely obnoxious to see you classify muslims into the same group as nazis, neo nazis, and klan members.
believe it or not, there are kind, gentle, and humane muslims out there.

you are ignorant in your views, something abovetopsecret is against.


Islam is a hate group just like the ones also mentioned .
You cannot be a good person from a western POV and a good muslim.
I happen to live in the west and I support the constitution freedom liberty and equality .
I want people to have the right to choose diffrent ways of life but choices are not free of ramifications.
when you join a hate group you dereve to be rediculed and renounced.
Your ignorence of the facts concerning Islam dont not stop you from voicing opinions but they do make you wrong.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 02:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by hallucinated

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Im all for tolerance but not all things need to be tolerated
I dont not extend a welcoming hand to Nazis, Muslims, neo Nazis, Klan members or any other hate group.
Just because a movement is popular or obnoxious does mean it is beneficial


i find it extremely obnoxious to see you classify muslims into the same group as nazis, neo nazis, and klan members.
believe it or not, there are kind, gentle, and humane muslims out there.

you are ignorant in your views, something abovetopsecret is against.
Have you ever read the Qur'an?



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 02:58 PM
link   
have you read the old testament? not very different from the koran



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 03:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ashlar
have you read the old testament? not very different from the koran

LOL

Oh yeah it is. And yes, I've read both.

Have you read the gospels of Christ? 100% exclusively peace, love, and tolerance.

And no, I'm not a Christian, but I can prove that everything bad you can think of about Christianity is un-Christian, and everything bad about Islam is in line with their scriptures. I can't stress how massive this difference between the two religions is.

Being that this is a conspiracy theory website (correct me if I'm wrong) I'd expect people would not be so trusting of "conventional wisdom".

Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization. All you have to do is read, and I'd be happy to provide you with a reading list of Muslim sources that will tell you all you need to know.

Certainly don't take my word for it.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 03:28 PM
link   
im a christian, so relax. however i am not an enemy of islam.

what i should of said is "the god of the old testament is not very different from the god of the koran"

what i mean by this is that:

you quote many areas of the koran which say that believers should wage war against the infidels

this is also the prime directive of the god of the jews. (you should be aware of all the cultures that the jews exterminated to claim israel)

circumcision is required by both gods

the eating of pork is banned by both gods

all eaten food must be ritually killed and blessed

extensive property and inheritance laws

both gods allow the marriage of multiple wives

both gods allow the practice of pedophilia

both gods command holy wars and violent acts
(in the old testament, god commands davids army at one point to remove the skin of the captured prisoners, then saw them in half)

both gods require a blood sacrifice
(allah, requires a yearly animal sacrifice)

this is what i meant, you must admit the similarities are extensive



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 03:45 PM
link   
Ashlar~

Well you must admit that there isn't a global scourge of Jews declaring war against and slaughtering the gentiles. One major difference between Islam and Judaism (and Christianity) is Jews and Christians have Westernized their religion; many of them meet each year and slice and dice the texts and debate their authenticity. Did 'such and such' really take place? Is this really what our God would say or want us to do? In Islam this would be called ijtihad (ij-tee-haad) and it is equal to the crime of apostasy which Muhammad himself decried is punishable by death.

Let me give you an example:

A Saudi Mufti gave a religious edict stating that because the Qur'an states the Earth is flat, anyone who agrees with the scientific fact that the Earth is round doesn't believe in God. In Saudi Arabia they cut your head off if you don't believe in Allah. This was in the year 1993.

In Egypt there is a law that states apostates must be killed.

Unfortunately, unliked the Puritan witch hunters or the inquisitors or the crusaders, these are not just a bunch of idiots drunk on religion; this is what Islam teaches them.

Believe me I know how you feel, because I felt that way before I started studying Islam. I've come to call it the Americanization of reality (or Westernization, if you will).

But I promise all of you: you cannot read the Islamic texts objectively and come to any other conclusion except the terrorists are true-blue Muslims following the commandments of their god and prophet.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 06:57 PM
link   
Islams Allah promises deceithe is incosistent and I dont recall pedophilia In the OT ‎
or the Quran that was a personal preference of the prophet Mohamed
and there for became allowed because it was sunnah ‎


www.usc.edu...



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 09:50 PM
link   
Ibn Iblis and KAOSKTRL are two very ignorant people; and, as it were, they are very 'selective' with thier singular vision of Islamic peoples and do not take into account that Islam is misrepresented by a small fraction of the entire population: Picking and choosing snippets of 'abnormal' behaviour in the Islamic world; picking and choosing snippets of the Qu'ran; picking and choosing snippets of Islamic men/women --the Suads-- to laminate "every" single sect, sub-par and non-denomination of Islam.

Ibn Iblis's choise of name on this site is very offensive and concludes that this man/women has not come to participate on a broad margin of issues, but strictly pertaining to defacing Islam, of this, he and I, are both aware...





Well you must admit that there isn't a global scourge of Jews declaring war against and slaughtering the gentiles. One major difference between Islam and Judaism (and Christianity) is Jews and Christians have Westernized their religion; many of them meet each year and slice and dice the texts and debate their authenticity. Did 'such and such' really take place? Is this really what our God would say or want us to do? In Islam this would be called ijtihad (ij-tee-haad) and it is equal to the crime of apostasy which Muhammad himself decried is punishable by death


Yes, and these Christians are vehemently trying to tout "creationism" into schools; these Christians, bar none, refuse to accept that "Jesus Christ" may have not existed and died for the sins of humanity; these Christians are the ones who have vehemently converted by sword or econimics, millions upon millions of "non-believers"; these Christians are still lauding thier "morals and values" to the American public as the paradigm, par excellence, and which of course, these morals have been atrophic to freedoms and liberties of average Americans, typicaly those non-Christians and homosexuals; these Christians are the the ones declaring thier utter obedience to an utter Xenophobic YAWEH to commands his subjects to rape, pillage and murder innocents and un-believers: And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT); Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT).........






Islam is a hate group just like the ones also mentioned .
You cannot be a good person from a western POV and a good muslim.
I happen to live in the west and I support the constitution freedom liberty and equality .
I want people to have the right to choose diffrent ways of life but choices are not free of ramifications.
when you join a hate group you dereve to be rediculed and renounced.
Your ignorence of the facts concerning Islam dont not stop you from voicing opinions but they do make you wrong.


I want you to provide me with conclusive evidence, bar the Qu'ran, that "ALL" Muslims hate non-Muslims. Being that we are IGNORANT of facts, please, good sir, provide us with these facts.

If all Muslims were the spurious sons/daughters of "SHATIAN", i'm quite sure, children, that you, and I, would not be here typing this very message..

Islamphobia is becoming pathetic.

Deep



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 10:00 PM
link   

I want you to provide me with conclusive evidence, bar the Qu'ran, that "ALL" Muslims hate non-Muslims. Being that we are IGNORANT of facts, please, good sir, provide us with these facts.

Why do you insist of me proving an assertion you make?lol:
If Islalm is not what comes from the founding documents where else does it come from?:



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 10:55 PM
link   
You stated that Islam was a hate group, and deemed all it's followers members and advocaters of this hate group, and then some other Islamaphobic material. Now back it up.

Deep



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 11:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
You stated that Islam was a hate group, and deemed all it's followers members and advocaters of this hate group, and then some other Islamaphobic material. Now back it up.

Deep

Post the quote



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 12:06 AM
link   


Islam is a hate group just like the ones also mentioned .
You cannot be a good person from a western POV and a good muslim.
I happen to live in the west and I support the constitution freedom liberty and equality .
I want people to have the right to choose diffrent ways of life but choices are not free of ramifications.
when you join a hate group you dereve to be rediculed and renounced.
Your ignorence of the facts concerning Islam dont not stop you from voicing opinions but they do make you wrong.


Deep



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 12:10 AM
link   
Not to deep are ya.
Now I dont want to get off on the wrong foot with you but your going to have to meet me part way.
do you understand what abrogation is in islam?



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 04:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
I dont recall pedophilia In the OT
or the Quran that was a personal preference of the prophet Mohamed
and there for became allowed because it was sunnah


Hi KAOSKTRL

firstly i would like to say that i respect both islam and ibn iblis right to criticise islam

however pedophelia is mentioned in the koran 52:24 is supposedly about the promise of young male servants to the faithfull. "Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded."


the rumor among arab christians regarding the origins of this verse is that the elders of the RICH bedouin tribes where notorious pedophiles, and mohammed had no way to win them over as they where very content with their life on earth (complete luxuary) and that the only thing that could kindle thier hearts was the promise of exotic (blonde) young boys. (they would never have access to such a wide variety of boys on earth)

I know that the majority of people will think this is complete rubbish, but there is some evidence to back it up (i am curious to know if ibn iblis or KAOSKTRL have heard this before)

also pedophilia permitted in jewish scriptures many times over

one quick example Jewish Soncino Talmud says: " Sanhedrin 55b - R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. " ("Coition" is "sexual intercourse")



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 05:00 AM
link   


Not to deep are ya.
Now I dont want to get off on the wrong foot with you but your going to have to meet me part way.
do you understand what abrogation is in islam?


No, why don't you fill me in then tell me what your point is ? You threw Islam into the same category as hate groups and decided not to back that claim up, and are now dodging the issue at hand.

Deep



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 05:49 AM
link   


I want you to provide me with conclusive evidence, bar the Qu'ran, that "ALL" Muslims hate non-Muslims. Being that we are IGNORANT of facts, please, good sir, provide us with these facts.


If a Muslim listens to Allah, then he indeed will hate non-Muslims.

[002:193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allh (alone).
[003:151-152] We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they joined others in worship with Allh, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. And Allh did indeed fulfil His Promise to you when you were killing them (your enemy) by His permission.
[004:101] Surely the disbelievers are ever unto you open enemies.
[005:051] O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliy' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliy' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliy'), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allh guides not those people who are Zlimn (unjust).
[008:012-013] (Remember) when your Lord revealed to the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike off their heads and strike off all their fingertips and toes. This is because they defied and disobeyed Allh and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allh and His Messenger, then verily, Allh is severe in punishment.
[008:022] Surely the vilest of animals, in Allah's sight, are the deaf, the dumb, who do not understand (ie. the disbelievers)
[009:005] Then when the sacred months have past, then kill the Mushrikn (idolators, polytheists, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allh, pagans) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in every ambush. But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them. Verily Allh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Good Muslims kill for Allah.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 08:50 AM
link   
Ashlar,
WOW that is disturbing news about couitus with babies Shows the need for a new covenet.
The muslnms scripture you quote is the description of paradise .
Not nearly as damning as what you quoted about jewsThe 'paradise is clearly a heddonistic bacceniallia fantasy. Not a spiritual wedding with the creator.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join