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No food stamps for people convicted of violent crimes

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posted on May, 27 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by jacobe001



You know what irony is?
You support Survival of the Fittest and so do the violent offenders by taking or killing whoever they want.

Your no different than the ones you are judging.


The really sad part of this is, those cheering for survival of the fittest, are likely the ones that would be lying dead in the streets without the artificial laws that actually pervert the natural order to protect them.




posted on May, 27 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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Gosh...

Nothing like a "civilized" society continuing to punish their criminals even after said criminal has paid his/her dues to society, hence earning the right to be released back into it...

Until such a time that they may or may not forfeit that right once again by committing another crime.

Or have we adopted the mindset now that every person who's ever been charged with a violent offense is a Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy all rolled up into one ?




posted on May, 27 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge
Gosh...

Or have we adopted the mindset now that every person who's ever been charged with a violent offense is a Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy all rolled up into one ?




Good Point you bring up there.

In older times long ago, there would be bar fights (no guns and knives) as a way to settle disputes, to which the people that fought would make up and become friends. Or if you had a problem with one of your shipmates, you would settle it behind the boiler.

That has all changed now where the state has butted into peoples affairs, and it can be considered a violent offense and a felony in many cases.

First example I came to.

Beaches man faces felony charge over bar fight

Read more at Jacksonville.com: jacksonville.com...


Ironically, one of my friends got in a fight with his brother many years ago and smashed a beer bottle over his head. Both get along fine today, but if the state got involved and leveled felony charges at them, they would not be doing ok.

It would have only made a bad temporary situation into a long term problem for both of them. Fortunately, they were both in their own home where the state should not be allowed to meddle in.

edit on 27-5-2013 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by KeliOnyx

Originally posted by jacobe001



You know what irony is?
You support Survival of the Fittest and so do the violent offenders by taking or killing whoever they want.

Your no different than the ones you are judging.


The really sad part of this is, those cheering for survival of the fittest, are likely the ones that would be lying dead in the streets without the artificial laws that actually pervert the natural order to protect them.




Ouch! This stings quite a few people I guarantee! I just made a thread saying this exact same thing.

I must star your post!



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 





Now, let me ask you, if a convicted criminal is not able to earn back some of the privileges of a civilized society, what is the point of prison?


You make an interesting point. Our current system now lets businesses, people, and government entities find out anything about anybody through data tracking databases and it is going to get worse, as the latest and greatest database tracking is set to follow our children officially through their entire lifetimes. This is Totalitarian enslavement if I ever saw it. The data mining is through the Common Core Standards program being foisted upon the nation and also globally.
You probably haven't even heard about it yet. It has been a bit under the radar but is now getting some attention.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by jacobe001

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Gosh...

Or have we adopted the mindset now that every person who's ever been charged with a violent offense is a Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy all rolled up into one ?




Good Point you bring up there.

In older times long ago, there would be bar fights (no guns and knives) as a way to settle disputes, to which the people that fought would make up and become friends. Or if you had a problem with one of your shipmates, you would settle it behind the boiler.

That has all changed now where the state has butted into peoples affairs, and it can be considered a violent offense and a felony in many cases.

First example I came to.

Beaches man faces felony charge over bar fight

Read more at Jacksonville.com: jacksonville.com...


Ironically, one of my friends got in a fight with his brother many years ago and smashed a beer bottle over his head. Both get along fine today, but if the state got involved and leveled felony charges at them, they would not be doing ok.

It would have only made a bad temporary situation into a long term problem for both of them. Fortunately, they were both in their own home where the state should not be allowed to meddle in.

edit on 27-5-2013 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)


You are going to compare a bar fight to a violent murder? Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate the difference between violent murders and regular offenses so as to make the food stamp thing look outrageous? Cause that's what it looks like to me. Unless you are trying to turn the thread into a criminal code reform thread.

Unless I'm mistaken, the food stamp thing was for murders and not felony barfights.
Already murderers cannot get guns and cannot vote. Do you want to change these things as well?
edit on 27-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 11:13 PM
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That would be a good start. I think the type of violent crime should be considered. Two adult males in a fist fight, like if they wanted to go outside and brawl should be excluded since we do live in violent societies so fighting can be better alternative than just getting attacked. Unprovoked violence or during the commission of a crime definitely requires more dissuasion especially against women and children. In many instances i would tret it similar to a gun crime. No chance of parole and hard labor so food stamps wouldnt be an issue.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by LightOrange
 





Careful with your labels, sir.


First I'm not a "sir".

second my post was a response to someone else calling people traitors. So labels? It wasn't me calling people traitors.

Does the term "welfare crowd" upset you? Did you warn the guy calling people traitors? I didn't think so.

Ok let's address the crime situation. The stipulation was "murder" not other felonies. So other types of crime do not even enter the picture.

If the term "welfare crowd" offends you, maybe you can research the Cloward/Piven strategy to understand


The growing public dependency on US government programs may not be simply the outcome of current economic conditions. The Cloward Piven strategy outlined how by impoverishing the middle class through crushing reduction in real disposable income, while taxing the private sector into submission would result in a growing central state and increasing transfer of power to it. Unsound money is a key tenet in the impoverishment of America and thereby achieving such a strategic outcome.



For the central state to assume more authoritarian control, public support will increasingly be based on a perception of a required redistribution of wealth from the rich to the growing number of poor. Redistribution of wealth is the goal, but in reality it is from the poor to the government and to those who feed at the government trough. To better understand how this occurs we all need to fully acquaint ourselves with the Cloward Piven strategy. Frankly, it all sounds eerily familiar with what is going on around us on a daily basis.



◾Create ever-growing constituencies DEPENDENT on the government for their livelihoods directly through entitlements, social safety nets and government suppliers in the private sectors!
◾Regulate and tax the private sector into submission (healthcare, banking, small businesses, real estate, autos) and demise while legislating demand to their crony capitalist supporters.
◾Politicize and control the allocation of credit (mortgages, student debt, consumer financial protection agency, Dodd Frank, etc.)
◾Control the public schools and teach dependence, childlike trust in government and that you are ENTITLED to something for nothing (health care, food, pensions, disability insurance, shelter) and not taught to think for themselves versus conventional schooling of self reliance, ability to solve problems, logic, importance of hard work, reading, writing and arithmetic and the lessons of history.



www.safehaven.com...

So that's what I'm talking about here. The thing is they stir up the sympathies of the people for various cases and situations, but it's been engineered. Anyone who refuses to cave to it is simply called heartless, or a traitor, or whatever.
edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


So now we are traitors if we decide to withhold food stamps from violent criminals? You see, this is the kind of thinking produced by the welfare state crowd.
If you want to help them, then why not start with some kind of program to help them get JOBS after they get out. If they can't get jobs they can't feed themselves. Who will give a job to a known murderer?
But in any case, a welfare state is not what our Founders had in mine when they drafted the Constitution.


Yes
You are a traitor if you choose to continue punishing a person after they have paid for their crime through the constitutional court system we have in place.

Spin it how you want, it is what it is, Don't like the constitution, go elsewhere. a criminal that is done serving is -absolutely- no different than a republican, or a black person, or etc etc etc..a meaningless name of a group that signifies nothing at all, and certainly not a group to have fun letting the government punish for life just for a laugh.

Your "welfare state crowd" bull is a complete distraction from the point here. Point is, you either remove it from -everyone- or -nobody-. You can't pick and choose who the government will feed...yes to that person but no to that person strictly out of mob preference with no legitimist discussion outside of that.

Anti-American...not the technical, but the mindset here...focus on what is happening, not the example. yes, I get it..you don't do food stamps, therefore you don't mind if they disappear..and your not a violent criminal, therefore you don't care if they eat, and your not a woman, therefore you don't care about their body rights, and etc etc etc

bout time you start caring about something before you find your being affected, and all your friends won't care about you



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


So now we are traitors if we decide to withhold food stamps from violent criminals? You see, this is the kind of thinking produced by the welfare state crowd.
If you want to help them, then why not start with some kind of program to help them get JOBS after they get out. If they can't get jobs they can't feed themselves. Who will give a job to a known murderer?
But in any case, a welfare state is not what our Founders had in mine when they drafted the Constitution.


So youre basically saying 'eff those offenders, even tho they have paid their debt to society? Noones gonna hire them, so they dont need to eat, let em die'
Am I correct?



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by MysterX
reply to post by Cabin
 


And the award for Mr or Ms stupid of the year goes to...whatever brainless twit came up with this idea.

Violent criminals...starving...no work, no food stamps equals NO CHOICE!

Things are gonna get violently ugly as soon as the cupboard shelves are empty.

Perhaps that's the idea.



No choice???

What choice did the their victims have, of their violent crimes?

Come on!!! Where is the voice of reason here??

Yes! They should not be eligible for ANYTHING! Do you all see that the bill does not target the average felon; just those convicted of violent crimes. That means crimes such of rapes, heinous murders, etc..not someone who robbed a bank to get money to his family.

Violent offenders should not even be here, let alone receive assistance from the very tax payers they have decided to violently offend.


No choice but to re-offend, and probably re-offend in a violent manner too.

The voice of reason here is that presumably these offenders would have already been incarcerated, and have served significant time being 'rehabilitated' and 'corrected' in prison -yes?

And so, after serving the prescribed amount of time, decided and judged as justifiable for his or her crime, they will have emerged, at the very least having been punished for the crime, but also hopefully rehabilitated and had their attitude and behaviour corrected.

Is this not what the USA calls it's dept of Prisons? Rehabilitations and corrections?

What you are arguing for is a second and ongoing punishment for the same crime. I personally believe that a murderer should spend their entire life in prison, with NO parole or release...ever...but that's not up to me.

The penalty is the penalty, and if the justice system reckons 20 years in prison is enough punishment for taking the life of another Human being, then that's what the penalty is - no more, no less.

Starving them after their release is going to give the offender NO choice, but to reoffend, go back to crime and probably using violence to achieve crimes.

So that's IS the voice of reason mate...is is NOT reasonable to starve a person, offender or not, and expect them to just sit back and take it quietly and calmly. Not many would hesitate to trun to violence, even extreme violence to feed themselves and or their families.

If you want violent ex-offenders to commit yet more violent crime and good way to start that ball rolling is to deny them access to work, money and food.

I'm assuming you are non-violent...but would you remain so if it meant you could not feed yourself or your family?

If it were me, i know i would do almost anything, including violence to feed mine, if it was a life or death situation.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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So those whom are criminally minded will have less support from the system pushing them into back into their old habbits. i don't mind toughening the law, perhaps longer prison sentences or even forced labour in prison similar to that of the 1933 German work camps. But when they are out of prison they need all the help they can get which will make society a safer and more profitable place to live.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I once went hungry for so long that at 16 years old, I actually sat down outside a community enjoying Thanksgiving where the smells were so intoxicating it was painful and while sitting on the bus bench (no money) looked down and saw a color brochure of a jack in the box cheeseburger, I picked it up gazing at it for a lost amount of time until I finally crushed it in my palms and began to eat it.

I had considered running into one of the homes of the feasting families, one in particular had a huge bay window and the table was set. As I crept up closer to the house with my plan, I watched as the family began to gather, from the very young to the very old and I just could not do it. I knew what hunger and going without felt like that day and I did not wish that on another single soul.

Another time I was starving, had not eaten in 13 days. I went to a home were in the backyard were citrus trees with fully ripe loads. I did sit down under one massive orange tree and began to eat my fill . Soon afterward, I could feel my stomach begin to cramp and when the owners arrived home they found me doubled over in excruciating pain.

I have tons of experience with hunger, no experience ripping off others or begging.

edit on 28-5-2013 by antar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by KeliOnyx

Originally posted by jacobe001



You know what irony is?
You support Survival of the Fittest and so do the violent offenders by taking or killing whoever they want.

Your no different than the ones you are judging.


The really sad part of this is, those cheering for survival of the fittest, are likely the ones that would be lying dead in the streets without the artificial laws that actually pervert the natural order to protect them.


Exactly.

Those that preach Survival of the Fittest have no clue as to what that really means. If these people really want a society predicated on that, they would better hope that their home is an impenetrable fortress, lest they find themselves rotting on a roadside somewhere as their precious material belongings are pillaged.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by antar
reply to post by MrWendal
 


I once went hungry for so long that at 16 years old, I actually sat down outside a community enjoying Thanksgiving where the smells were so intoxicating it was painful and while sitting on the bus bench (no money) looked down and saw a color brochure of a jack in the box cheeseburger, I picked it up gazing at it for a lost amount of time until I finally crushed it in my palms and began to eat it.

I had considered running into one of the homes of the feasting families, one in particular had a huge bay window and the table was set. As I crept up closer to the house with my plan, I watched as the family began to gather, from the very young to the very old and I just could not do it. I knew what hunger and going without felt like that day and I did not wish that on another single soul.

Another time I was starving, had not eaten in 13 days. I went to a home were in the backyard were citrus trees with fully ripe loads. I did sit down under one massive orange tree and began to eat my fill . Soon afterward, I could feel my stomach begin to cramp and when the owners arrived home they found me doubled over in excruciating pain.

I have tons of experience with hunger, no experience ripping off others or begging.

edit on 28-5-2013 by antar because: (no reason given)



I applaud your self restraint.

There are others who will end up going hungry in that same fashion, and they will be in your predicament, gazing as a family eats while they starve.

The family seated at the table may not be so lucky in that instance. All it takes is a knife, and the mentality of a starved dog to turn things upside down.

The well to do people on here...would be wise to not wish ill upon those that have to do with less.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by ohnodavido
So those whom are criminally minded will have less support from the system pushing them into back into their old habbits. i don't mind toughening the law, perhaps longer prison sentences or even forced labour in prison similar to that of the 1933 German work camps. But when they are out of prison they need all the help they can get which will make society a safer and more profitable place to live.


Our country has foolishly neglected proper rehabilitation and setting up legitimate job programs for offenders after they get out of jail, to transition them back into society and afford them a way to earn an honest living.

I will sit back with a bag of popcorn, and watch what happens when these same people are denied food.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by antar
reply to post by MrWendal
 


I once went hungry for so long that at 16 years old, I actually sat down outside a community enjoying Thanksgiving where the smells were so intoxicating it was painful and while sitting on the bus bench (no money) looked down and saw a color brochure of a jack in the box cheeseburger, I picked it up gazing at it for a lost amount of time until I finally crushed it in my palms and began to eat it.

I had considered running into one of the homes of the feasting families, one in particular had a huge bay window and the table was set. As I crept up closer to the house with my plan, I watched as the family began to gather, from the very young to the very old and I just could not do it. I knew what hunger and going without felt like that day and I did not wish that on another single soul.

Another time I was starving, had not eaten in 13 days. I went to a home were in the backyard were citrus trees with fully ripe loads. I did sit down under one massive orange tree and began to eat my fill . Soon afterward, I could feel my stomach begin to cramp and when the owners arrived home they found me doubled over in excruciating pain.

I have tons of experience with hunger, no experience ripping off others or begging.

edit on 28-5-2013 by antar because: (no reason given)


Thank you. My point exactly.

There is never a reason to harm/ kill another individual to obtain what they have. And it is truly sickening to see people stating that we should appeal to the demands of the criminals...




posted on May, 28 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
So they are going to cut off basic food assistance, among already desperate people, to the MOST violent among the desperate. ....and who thought this was a good idea??


Agreed.

I'm not really the biggest fan of things like food stamps but this is an unbelievably stupid idea.
edit on 28-5-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by mblahnikluver

Originally posted by antar
but when a woman has an abortion she should also have her tubes tied. If in the future she wants to have a baby she can shell out the $$$$$ to have it reversed.

What a disgusting thing to say. Sorry but I disagree!! I have had an abortion and I am not ashamed by any means. I was on meds that interacted with my BC and was not told it would. I was young and not prepared to have a child let alone not know if the child would even make it full term due to the meds I was on. I signed multiple papers stating "you can't get pregnant while on accutane," yet it happened because they failed to mention it affected the BC. So according to YOU I should have been basically castrated?
I have zero problems with abortion it is hard choice to make and unless you have ever been in that situation imo you really have no say in it. I don't think people should use it as a form of BC but you can't control what people do with their body. I would never tell someone else what to do with THEIR body. Abortion is a very personal and emotional choice.


Perhaps all applicants to the welfare rolls should have to get a vasectomy or tubaligation first. All incoming foreign workers as well.

Again disgusting thing to say. I AM on SNAP and Medicaid. I am very thankful for both programs. I was employed when I became pregnant so I didn't need any assistance but i had a jack hole for a boss who thought i should ignore all my doctors orders and then let me go. My pregnancy did not in any way affect my job! I paid into both programs my entire working life so I have no problem taking any kind of assistance right now. I have never had assistance in my life and once i have my child I will no longer need it but let me tell you what the $169 I get a month in food assistance really helps with only one income right now. My income was the one that paid for food and it was a hell of a lot more than what i get but I'm grateful to the system for the help I do get.

I get really sick of people grouping everyone in the category of "lazy" just because they get assistance. You don't know someone's situation. I hope you never lose your job and need help. I know many people who lost their jobs and homes due to economic times and that doesnt' make them lazy! Sometimes you need a little help to get on your feet, sad thing is many abuse this help and those of us who don't abuse it get categorized and labeled because of those who do. I would never be on assistance for life. I don't even like it now to be honest but it is very helpful and I am appreciative.


In what country do you live? Accutane is not something dispensed here in the United States without the patient's signature on the waiver indicating they accept full responsibility if they become pregnant. And you can't even get that far without proving you're on birth control.

I remember you mentioning that you couldn't work around certain chemicals at work since becoming pregnant, right? You groomed dogs and some chemicals were contraindicated by pregnancy, right?



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by supremecommander
 


LOL like programing that shows where the "Preppers" are and what they have. Better tell all those people you bragged to about your preps and weapons, seeds, generator power, stuff, that you were robbed, play it out and cover your tracks as far as people today I agree, but for some its just too late because they had big mouths and little foresight.



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