Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder

reply to post by cody599

4.6 %. At the risk of being honest

Hardly over run is it ?

It’s getting there.

By any measure, what it reveals is a country undergoing seismic change. Over the course of a decade up to four million more people have entered the country to live. In the capital, London, people identifying themselves as "white British" have for the first time become a minority. Perhaps most strikingly, the national Muslim population has doubled.

www.gatestoneinstitute.org...


…and their voice seems to be much louder than yours.

We don’t have Islam problems in US like you have. Do you realize that UK has @ as many Muslims as the US even though we have @ 250,000,000 more people?

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

Sorry. I'll be back later... I'm busy right now.

I'll try to respond to posters later.

But to your post... Its just funny how posters are mentioning the War and we have Two teams from Germany competing in the Champions League Final Tonight at a Venue in London, 3 days after a man was hacked to death for wearing a T-shirt which read 'help for heroes'

You can't keep holding a grudge against the Germans. That's ridiculous. I'm sure the citizens of Germany have suffered enough guilt. I welcome our German cousins. Maybe they can teach us a thing or two about playing football.

Originally posted by cody599

But like I said 4,6% is hardly a take over. Think about that

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

What percentage would concern you? 10%? 15% 50%?

Whichever it is, it has to go through 4.6% to get there.

Originally posted by cody599
Stop being so alarmist

I live next door to Luton in a mainly white christian community all be it a rough area, armed police are walking the streets in Luton, one of the largest Muslim communities in Britain

No tension here, no thoughts of retribution for a couple of nutters with a knife that lost the plot.

Just life as normal

Cody

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

Lol! You do realize this is an oxymoron? If there is no tension, then why the heck are armed police walking the streets?

Armed police are definitely a symptom of an infected society. So what's the infection? Look at Luton, where you'll see a very high concentration of armed police response teams. A country that has a history of excellent policing, a history of fair policing, and never, until now, a need to arm their police. Why now? What's changed? The demographics. What specifically in the demographics has changed? You will find religious ideology that usurps the host system at every chance it gets at the core of the infection..

Originally posted by Galvatron
Lets look at the fundamental issues at the base layer.

National security is the survival of the nation state (the people, the laws, the societal system, and the culture) from internal and external threats.

In the US and the UK you have a separation of church and state. That is to say that religion cannot affect the people, the laws, the societal system, and the culture without the people's express voluntary action. Islam explicitly demands the fusion of church and state through it's various tenets, but also explicitly through sharia. This ideology from the most fundamental of base layers therefore constitutes a well defined and categorical threat to national security for countries that require a separation of church and state as part of their national identity. It really is that simple.

However, Islam is unique in that it not only dictates a moral, cultural, and societal system, but a political and legal system as well. It is quite literally a complete system. The religion demands its followers to ignore the law of the land if it isn't Islam. If that is not a direct threat to the national security of a country that separates church and state, then I don't know what is.

I find most religious ideology abhorrent, savage, and backwards. I take individuals for who they are, and my Muslim friends would probably hate to hear me say this, even though most of them are only sporadic practitioners. It is, however true.

People can ignore it as much as they like, but that's the basis of the situation. When Muslim populations in non-Muslim countries reach a certain percentage, then that country, regardless of how successful its original system was for its people, turns Muslim. People don't like to mention it or are ignorant of it, but that's one of the many reasons for the Yugoslavian civil war that wracked the Balkans throughout the duration of the 1990s.

edit on 25-5-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)

There is a distinct difference on this issue in regards to the Us and the UK. Immigrants into American, throughout generations, tend to become Americanized.That is, the subsequent generations tend to identify more closely with America than they do with their country of ethnic origin.

This does not happen to the same degree in the UK and tons of research have been conducted to figure out why. Mostly it boils down to America's separation from Europe in a geographical sense and also the foundations of each country. America has always been a land of immigrants whereas the UK has not.

American culture is far more "in your face" and dominant than the UK culture which tends to be more protected and unwilling to accept change. Therefore, an influx of immigrants, we see this with the immigration from Mexico, will have far less impact in the US than it will in the UK.

reply to post by Hopechest


Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's a fair statement. I was just using the US and UK as two examples of countries with separation of church and state.

Originally posted by BellaSabre

Originally posted by cody599
Stop being so alarmist

I live next door to Luton in a mainly white christian community all be it a rough area, armed police are walking the streets in Luton, one of the largest Muslim communities in Britain

No tension here,

Just life as normal

Cody

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

Lol! You do realize this is an oxymoron? If there is no tension, then why the heck are armed police walking the streets?

edit on 5/25/2013 by BellaSabre because: (no reason given)

Luton circa 2009 - no tension then either !!!!!!!

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by cody599

 

4.6 %. At the risk of being honest

Hardly over run is it ?

It’s getting there.

By any measure, what it reveals is a country undergoing seismic change. Over the course of a decade up to four million more people have entered the country to live. In the capital, London, people identifying themselves as "white British" have for the first time become a minority. Perhaps most strikingly, the national Muslim population has doubled.

www.gatestoneinstitute.org...


…and their voice seems to be much louder than yours.

We don’t have Islam problems in US like you have. Do you realize that UK has @ as many Muslims as the US even though we have @ 250,000,000 more people?

I will not be baited into a let's blame it all on the Muslims argument

Like I said previously the kids are fine, the kids my wife works with on a daily basis, the Muslim kids.

The Muslim kids that are shocked and abhor the murder as much as we do.

The future

Make no mistake Britain is still British and I'm calling in from one of the most Muslim areas here, yet I walk around and feel no fear and no tension between British Muslims and the rest of us.

I get more scared when Watford play Luton at soccer and the fans clash.


Cody

Originally posted by BellaSabre

Originally posted by cody599
Stop being so alarmist

I live next door to Luton in a mainly white christian community all be it a rough area, armed police are walking the streets in Luton, one of the largest Muslim communities in Britain

No tension here, no thoughts of retribution for a couple of nutters with a knife that lost the plot.

Just life as normal

Cody

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

Lol! You do realize this is an oxymoron? If there is no tension, then why the heck are armed police walking the streets?

edit on 5/25/2013 by BellaSabre because: (no reason given)

I already posted about that HERE

The violence is between gangs, not religions

Cody

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by BellaSabre

Originally posted by cody599
Stop being so alarmist

I live next door to Luton in a mainly white christian community all be it a rough area, armed police are walking the streets in Luton, one of the largest Muslim communities in Britain

No tension here,

Just life as normal

Cody

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

Lol! You do realize this is an oxymoron? If there is no tension, then why the heck are armed police walking the streets?

edit on 5/25/2013 by BellaSabre because: (no reason given)

Luton circa 2009 - no tension then either !!!!!!!

See my previous post and thread

It explains that there was about 20 protesters.

Cody

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by cody599

But like I said 4,6% is hardly a take over. Think about that

edit on 25/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

What percentage would concern you? 10%? 15% 50%?

Whichever it is, it has to go through 4.6% to get there.

I wouldn't be concerned

We may not have a constitution but we have a history and the silent majority are amazing

Get up, clean up, sweep away the riots Doing nothing wasn't an option after the riots, so people started the clean-up themselves. How very British

HERE

How concerned do the majority look ?

Cody

reply to post by Hopechest


Dont forget that the UK is a much smaller Island than the The Americas so we are going to feel that Immigration has gone through the roof and see that the Island is full! We will visit Towns and see that in some there are more Immigrants than there are English! You won't notice this trend in other Countries with more Land Mass!

This is why its easy to see that there may only be 2.6mil here in England but if you look at the stats, per couple have on average 5 or 6 kids.... well, doesnt take much to figure out that National ID will change and you will see more 'Muslims' per square metre in certain areas.... London for example must have about 1 Million of those Muslims in it out of the 5 or 6 Mil population of London.

Tensions are high... the place is crowded and we have Extremists in our mist living here off of the Taxpayer.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I'm not holding a grudge, its just that the Events leading upto tonights Final is kind of funny.

Anyway, that may be for another Thread.

I would like to keep the Focus on 'Clashes Of Civilizations' and in particular People versus islam which is referred to in the linked article in OP.

What happened back in the War? The Jews were killed and/or kicked out.

Is what happening in the UK the Pre-curser for the next War to kick off? Lets say we started to kick the 'Muslims' out.... what would happen?

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by Hopechest
I will admit that racial tension is definitely on the rise in Briton but I'm curious what type of clash you think is coming.

Will it be gang fights in the street or will the parliament kick out muslims?

I doubt the latter will happen and the former will not change anything so........

I am NOT advocating this but it HAS happened before.
Many times.

Groups of people have been chucked out of Britain and Western Europe - that is a fact.
The British were more or less kicked out of Africa and India.

Unfortunately, in Europe- it last happened very recently[ in relative history] in Germany and we all know that story.

Which then led to another displacement of peoples in the middle east and we all know that story.

France have been kicking out the Roma, as recently as last year.

So do not be so certain in your conclusions.

Addit: The muslims have been kicked out of Europe more then once.

edit on 25-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

I am half Jewish. I am living in UK and was born in UK.

I don't want Muslims to be hurt.

They will not stop in their decision to wipe out Israel.

On your point about the Jews in Germany; believe me it is written in Scripture itself that Israel would re acquire THEIR land. Europe could not be trusted. You wiped us all out. We had to do this!

We achieved it. We are a nuclear power and have enough bombs to do serious damage if anyone attempts to wipe us out. Just like Obama or Cameron would do.

WE WILL PROTECT ourselves.

So where does this half Jew Brit fit into their idea of "taking Britain back"?

I lived in a Muslim community for many years pre Jihad. Then it became intolerable after that. I know them SO well. I want to live in Peace, but it is there ideology that is preventing that, not mine.

I speak from my heart. Truly I do.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

I'm not holding a grudge, its just that the Events leading upto tonights Final is kind of funny.

Anyway, that may be for another Thread.

I would like to keep the Focus on 'Clashes Of Civilizations' and in particular People versus islam which is referred to in the linked article in OP.

What happened back in the War? The Jews were killed and/or kicked out.

Is what happening in the UK the Pre-curser for the next War to kick off? Lets say we started to kick the 'Muslims' out.... what would happen?

See, this guy just clearly said it all. You KILLED us and you KICKED us out!

So what are your plans for me Mr Brit?

reply to post by Revolution9


Revolution I am not advocating the above - I was just saying what happened in Europe in the past.
I think the world is in turmoil right now - I think it will get worse. I think we all need a sanctuary.
Addit: I don't know where any of us belong anymore.
But as far as I am concerned you are English. You belong here if this is where you want to live and no one I am sure would question that. Why would they ?

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Revolution I am not advocating the above - I was just saying what happened in Europe in the past.
I think the world is in turmoil right now - I think it will get worse. I think we all need a sanctuary.
Addit: I don't know where any of us belong anymore.
But as far as I am concerned you are English. You belong here if this is where you want to live and no one I am sure would question that. Why would they ?

edit on 25-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

I know. Don't worry I am very bright. It is great that finally everyone is talking about it because it is a WORLD problem.

I am well thick skinned. I know that it was the past and I am secure in the future with the beautiful Spiritual Homeland I have.

I love UK, too. I have two homes. How blessed is that!!!

I feel very lucky. I believe in Christ that if the SHTF then He will meet the Beast at Megiddo! And Christ will win. That is all I know and that comforts me.

So no worries!

A French Soldier was stabbed in the neck today by someone of "North African descent"

I think this will be an English problem also. People say British, but we have no issues up here in Scotland.
To be clear, Scotland is it's own country, we just are part of a union.

I do agree however. Oldham and Birmingham, I can see major issues there.
All over, Muslims are being attacked. The people of England, it seems a percentage, don't want Muslims in England. This is their right, and my only hope is people keep it real.

Sadly this will get worse.
BUT...These 2 idiots who beheaded the soldier in London knew what they were doing.
They want to destabilize the country. This could be a planned thing here.
Has Westminster got the balls to deal with this?
I fear not.

reply to post by Revolution9


I am only referencing what happened WWII, it just seems to be happening again, only this time its the 'Muslims'.

Its not just the UK where tensions are high either.... its across Europe!

Even if you aren't an Extremist, you still may get kicked out.

I guess the decision lies with the Queen at the end of the day. If she feels threatened, she may well order it or if she doesn't, I can see the British populace doing it themselves.

I dont know, I'm just going by recent Events.