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Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder

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posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Galvatron
 


You're advocating the removal of an entire group of people from countries of their birth based on their religion.

Could you please tell me how that isn't bigoted?

If you can't see the obvious parallels this has to one of the most disgusting chapters of human history I fear that we've gone no where as a species and probably never will.

Were the Nazis okay to remove the Jews from their lands because Judaism wasn't compatible with The German society and culture they wanted to create?


I am not a bigot.

Bigot: (Merriam Webster): a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

I'm not prejudice.

Prejudice: (Merriam Webster): : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

I have more than sufficient knowledge of Islam, I am no prejudice. I hold no misconceptions about Islam. I take individuals for who they are. No hatred. I don't hate Muslims. I have Muslim friends. I have merely pointed out that Islam, as a system, is a complete one that has no regard for its host systems. I have attempted to show that as a complete system, it is less competitive than many many others, including the host systems it is trying to dominate currently. I have attempted to show that the very nature of Islam, on a fundamental and logical basis, proves to be a threat to the national security of the host systems by its very own nature explicitly stated in the Koran. And you have the audacity to call me bigoted out of some impetuous desire to defend that you do not know..

You didn't address a single point of mine and you didn't answer a single question I presented you. I will address yours if it pleases you, though. Judaism isn't a complete system of cultural, economic, military, political, or religious mandates. It, historically, has posed no threat of replacing any of the host societal systems in which it resides. Were the Nazi's just in removing Jews from their land? Actually yes they were. It would be akin to you asking a #ty guest to leave your party. It isn't rude, it isn't offensive, it's what you do. They way they did it was what was reprehensible. You will never see me condone the slaughter of people for no reason.

Islam, almost completely, throughout history, has posed an enormous threat to the host societal systems that it inhabits. Look at India, look at Russia (Chechnya), look at Yugoslavia, look at East Timor, Look at the Philipines, look at Southern Thailand. There's a pattern developing. It's like having a guest at a party who is not only a #ty guest, but one that tries to somehow turn every one of the guests into one like them in some bizzare Mr. Smith from the matrix style way and at the end of it all, the host of the party ends up getting kicked out of his own home.




posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Galvatron
 


So your 'proof' that Islam isn't compatible with the west is the existence of the EDL.

My god, to think you're the one moaning about people not offering proof when you've come up with that.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Galvatron
 


Christ alive, you're a worrying man.

Did you just say you think the Nazis were in the right when it came to removing the Jews fromt heir land


Wanting an entire group of people to leave a country based on their religion is bigoted.

You're showing very obvious signs of prejudice to anyone of that religion.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Galvatron
 


So your 'proof' that Islam isn't compatible with the west is the existence of the EDL.

My god, to think you're the one moaning about people not offering proof when you've come up with that.


You're not getting it. its a symptom of a society that has tension. My proof that it isn't compatable is a completely different subject that I think I've adequately explained earlier in this thread. I don't mean to sound condescending, i truly don't, but do you see the difference? You're associating what I said regarding a reply one specific post to the different overall theme of my other posts.
edit on 26-5-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)


Please read my other posts. I've addressed much of what you are saying in those. I implore you, please read them.
edit on 26-5-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Galvatron
 


Christ alive, you're a worrying man.

Did you just say you think the Nazis were in the right when it came to removing the Jews fromt heir land


Wanting an entire group of people to leave a country based on their religion is bigoted.

You're showing very obvious signs of prejudice to anyone of that religion.


It doesn't look like you understand fundamental ethics. Answer this. If a person in your house, a guest, starts tearing down your wallpaper and starts demanding that you buy them groceries of a certain type in as an intimidating way as possible, what would you do?

Did you read my post, do you understand the definition of prejudice? pre=before, judice=judgement. So you call me prejudice for knowing about Islam? Okay, but it doesn't fit, and is therefore defamatory. I will cal you prejudice since you obviously don't know about Islam. You are prejudiced to support and defend it without knowing about it. If you knew about it, you wouldn't be prejudice. At that point whether you supported it or not would be your choice. Prejudice can swing both ways you know. Is English your first language?
edit on 26-5-2013 by Galvatron because: added paragraph

edit on 26-5-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by cody599
I'll tell you all what

Show me 66% of Britain rising against a Muslim threat that isn't there and I will doff my cap to you all.

Not only did I never claim such a thing, the OP and the article didn't as well. The article he posted maybe used a sensational headline, but it did claim that the poll reveals rising fears of clashes and not people rising against a Muslim threat.
Not only that, but it stated very clearly that only 1,839 people took the poll.

Furthermore, you cannot prove that 66% do not fear upcoming clashes as well.



You have one year to prove me wrong

I don't need a year since I've already pulled that one off. You claimed there are no tensions based on a story about your wife's experience in work, and you were explained why it's obvious there are infact tensions in UK and given examples by me in the post afterwards.

This post of your's is actually the reply to mine. I have no idea how in the world does it relates but it really looks like a diversion tactic. Which is silly and does not work on most people with a straight mind.


Otherwise stop boring me with alarmist crap

I just knew this damage control part of you would awaken soon enough. Don't know why. A person that ends his posts in smileys as if he's calm, well, never is.
You can keep trying to hurt as much as you'd like. You have my word that it will only make me happier to continue discussing this untill you pull the obvious cop out and say "I'm done talking with you". Remember I called it right here when it happens.

Nevertheless, it's very unfortunate that you are so full of agenda to call stating facts as 'being alarmist'. Unfortunate for you ofcourse. You're going to live a very unhappy life if these are your standards.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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I've always wanted to see "The Clash"! Any tour dates yet? ...oh, not THAT clash? Never mind.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

At a time where we should be uniting against the elitist banksters and we are more divided then ever!


You are forgetting that radical Islam has its own agenda.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Problem is we have so many elements that want to destroy our wonderful civilization for their own means.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

At a time where we should be uniting against the elitist banksters and we are more divided then ever!


You are forgetting that radical Islam has its own agenda.

I'd wager a good amount that it's not that he 'forgot' about it, he conveniently left it out because when Islam is on the spotlight, one of the most common excuses is let's stop fighting because we need to be united.

I risk of sounding like an assuming prick but I'm not one to keep my opinions to myself at a forum.
I'd be more than willing to admit I'm wrong if that's not the case.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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Lovely day here in the East Midlands .

I went out to do some shopping and everyone is out there mingling with one another in the parks .

Couldn't see any tension , anywhere .



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by InstantRemedy

Originally posted by cody599
I'll tell you all what

Show me 66% of Britain rising against a Muslim threat that isn't there and I will doff my cap to you all.

Not only did I never claim such a thing, the OP and the article didn't as well. The article he posted maybe used a sensational headline, but it did claim that the poll reveals rising fears of clashes and not people rising against a Muslim threat.
Not only that, but it stated very clearly that only 1,839 people took the poll.

Furthermore, you cannot prove that 66% do not fear upcoming clashes as well.



You have one year to prove me wrong

I don't need a year since I've already pulled that one off. You claimed there are no tensions based on a story about your wife's experience in work, and you were explained why it's obvious there are infact tensions in UK and given examples by me in the post afterwards.

This post of your's is actually the reply to mine. I have no idea how in the world does it relates but it really looks like a diversion tactic. Which is silly and does not work on most people with a straight mind.


Otherwise stop boring me with alarmist crap

I just knew this damage control part of you would awaken soon enough. Don't know why. A person that ends his posts in smileys as if he's calm, well, never is.
You can keep trying to hurt as much as you'd like. You have my word that it will only make me happier to continue discussing this untill you pull the obvious cop out and say "I'm done talking with you". Remember I called it right here when it happens.

Nevertheless, it's very unfortunate that you are so full of agenda to call stating facts as 'being alarmist'. Unfortunate for you ofcourse. You're going to live a very unhappy life if these are your standards.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)


Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder,

No they don't




Not only that, but it stated very clearly that only 1,839 people took the poll.


So Two-thirds of 1,839 selected white people live in fear ?

I think you just proved my point

Thank you

I have no intention of hurting anyone



And my life is very happy thank you

Cody

edit on 26/5/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by cody599
I have no intention of hurting anyone

Yeah. That statement of you wanting me to stop 'bore' you with 'alarmist crap' says otherwise. No worries tho, I'm not one to get hurt that easy.


Show me the facts

Already did, to which you ignored and set forth a new demand; to show you something totally unrelated about 66% of the British people. I've already talked about that as well.

I get the feeling that if you're not going to read my posts and reply them as they are, we will keep going in circles for a long time.


Edit - Now you've edited your post and it all seem alittle unclear. Anyway,
The poll clearly states that alittle more than 1800 people took the poll. So the facts are that two thirds of those people fear upcoming clashes. How does that prove your point?

Here's an assignment to you - prove to me, without using your wife's work in school as evidence, that if the poll would've consisted of let's say 1,000,000 people, the result would be any different.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by InstantRemedy
 



Theme: Population Overview Summaries and Publications Data tables Total population (UK) 63.2 million


Linky

Two thirds of 1800 hmmmmmmmmmm 1200 0f 63.2 million

Yeah that's a rebellion in the making


Cody



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:22 PM
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From South Africa it's an interesting debate.

Here massive attacks against foreigners by the local black population have been on-going since an explosion in 2008.

So far it is mainly aimed at foreign shop owners and an economic struggle for resources.

Last week the main attacks were against Somalis, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

The argument from locals is that these groups are here illegally or via corruption, and that they destroy local businesses.
Yet they pay little to no tax, and send most of their earnings to foreign countries while using our limited resources.

Similar charges have been spoken against an astounding sudden influx of Chinese migrants, although they mostly stay out of the townships and trade at major public transport points.
Like other Asian groups, they generally claim to make money here and then go back home.
However, at least the Chinese are not a terrorist threat.
The tax fraud probably amounts to untold Billions.

There is a connection with fears about radical Islam however, and reports last week also showed concerns about Islamist terrorists abusing corrupt immigration processes, running training camps in SA, and Britain has therefore tightened Visa controls to the chagrin of many South Africans.
www.dailymaverick.co.za...

In SA we've had no Islamic terror attacks since the urban terror campaigns of the mid-1990s, which included targets like Planet Hollywood, a gay bar and the Jewish Center of the Book.
It also included a pub where a pipe bomb was found in a flower pot shortly after we visited with family members (an hour later), and since then I refuse to believe that radical Muslims are never a threat to others.
This led to a major crackdown on local Islamist groups, despite their (I'd say rather unconvincing) claims that they were framed.
They also burned a gangster alive in the streets, but since the clampdown all was quiet for many years.

Nevertheless, this improperly controlled influx from countries that harbor Islamists is concerning.

I just think it's strange to hear only about a culture clash in Britain, when here foreign-owned shops are sporadically looted and destroyed, people are killed in the streets, and despite some arrests rumors persist that some of the police and local politicians may be involved.

The rather politically polite term "xenophobia" is used, when in Europe this would have been called "fascist attacks" and "racist mobs".

But then again Uganda also expelled its entire Asian population in the 1970s, and nobody dared call that "racist".

Anyway, despite this they seem to keep on coming, which only makes me think that for them to come here at those risks means the source areas in their countries are an absolute shambles.

Those are countries with high Islamist activity and insurgency against Muslim states (not against occupying forces), so the fact that many have to flee to a developing nation like South Africa makes me shudder to think how crap their homelands must actually be.

I hope corrupt politicians don't make this our future too.

Makes me think of Apocalypto where the refugee at the beginning says: "RUN"!

But run where?
The sea?

www.citypress.co.za...

edit on 26-5-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by InstantRemedy
 



Theme: Population Overview Summaries and Publications Data tables Total population (UK) 63.2 million


Linky

Two thirds of 1800 hmmmmmmmmmm 1200 0f 63.2 million

Yeah that's a rebellion in the making


Cody

Absurd attempt at proving your point dear friend.
The poll was among 1800 people, true. However, directly assuming that only those that said they fear clashes out of the people that were polled are the only people nation-wide that fear clashes is nitpicking at best, and an utter failure to gather data at worst.

Now, if you are going to show me that the same results would not happen if the poll consisted of more people (say a million), I'd be more than convinced. But all you did was wrong math, assuming that the people who answered 'yes' in that poll of 1800 would be the only ones to say 'yes' out of the entire 62 million in the country.

You can do better than that.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by InstantRemedy
 

I don't need to

Watch the news, Luton festival today

No tension juts fun I'll put the link as soon as the bbc post it

Cody




posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by InstantRemedy
 

I don't need to

Watch the news, Luton festival today

No tension juts fun I'll put the link as soon as the bbc post it

Cody


Great argument there. Demand proof, get it, and when asked you fail to provide any proof. Scratch that, any legitimate evidence at all.

Oh look, there's a festival. Surely everything is okay and there are no tensions at all. Don't mind any other events, look, there are birds in the sky!

Are you going to tell me this supposed to convince anyone of .. well anything?
All it does is show me how flawed your argument is, and confirm the fact that you're agenda-full in insisting everything's okay and nothing is going on, no tensions at all.

Laughable at best.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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Now, if you are going to show me that the same results would not happen if the poll consisted of more people (say a million), I'd be more than convinced.
reply to post by InstantRemedy
 


I'm not the one that posted the ridiculous OP.

It's not my job to to go out polling

It's up to you to convince me that 1200 people is a proper representation of the thinking of a nation of 62 million.

Cody



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by InstantRemedy

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by InstantRemedy
 

I don't need to

Watch the news, Luton festival today

No tension juts fun I'll put the link as soon as the bbc post it

Cody




Great argument there. Demand proof, get it, and when asked you fail to provide any proof. Scratch that, any legitimate evidence at all.

Oh look, there's a festival. Surely everything is okay and there are no tensions at all. Don't mind any other events, look, there are birds in the sky!

Are you going to tell me this supposed to convince anyone of .. well anything?
All it does is show me how flawed your argument is, and confirm the fact that you're agenda-full in insisting everything's okay and nothing is going on, no tensions at all.

Laughable at best.
edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)


Today I went to Luton and went shopping for fabrics with my wife, she loves crafts, the best fabrics are in the Muslim area apparently.

Guess what ? I'm still alive

Guess what else ? At no point did I feel anything but welcome, admittedly I avoided the gang controlled areas.

But real life tells me that this thread is talking rubbish.

Cody



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