If these people take over our government WE ALL LOSE

Originally posted by Deemo Diablo
So a few people making fun of someone is representative of the whole? Every single person that falls under the Tea Party umbrella is of the same mindset?

I don't think so.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that most Tea Party people do indeed think that they should not have to pay any taxes to support others in their society, they believe in selfishness, this is their damned platform FFS

"What's mine is mine, and I ain't contributin' nothin'"

That's what the Tea Party is built on.

I actually asked a Tea Partier way back in 2010 what they think should happen to a child who has cancer, with a family unable to pay for any treatment. They first said that the "community" should pay for treatment. I pointed out that they just suggested a tax, and they didn't get it. I compared this to the UK NHS, and they still didn't understand that this is still a tax on the many to assist the weakest in society!

For people who like to stand there with placards and rant and rave about taxation they sure seem to know very little about it!

In all conversations I have had with these people, they always come across to me as being highly religious, usually racist, often homophobic, ignorant, extreme in their opinions, and generally just horrid people!

I know that's not all of them, of course! There are some in there that just think the government is too big and too meddling, and that's something I would agree with. But I go on personal experiences, and my personal experiences with these people is that they are the American version of a British far-right group.

I also have to ask, if people don't want to be viewed like that, of those actions don't represent them, why be a part of that group and associate yourself with that? If I was with a group of people, involved with them in any way, and they behaved like this, I would be leaving immediately and breaking any connection I had to them.

People all have their own morals, their own spines and the ability to think for themselves, if people don't agree with this kind of behaviour, they should be contacting their local Tea Party leader and telling them why they are leaving.
Those who don't are supporting this kind of sickening behaviour in my opinion.

Originally posted by Rocker2013

I actually asked a Tea Partier way back in 2010 what they think should happen to a child who has cancer, with a family unable to pay for any treatment. They first said that the "community" should pay for treatment. I pointed out that they just suggested a tax, and they didn't get it. I compared this to the UK NHS, and they still didn't understand that this is still a tax on the many to assist the weakest in society!

Taxes are an invouluntary contribution to society versus a vouluntary one which is what the Tea Party person may of been suggesting.

And if you are going to laud the wonders of the UK NHS, then I suggest you come prepared for the onslaught of issues inherent with that system.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Rocker2013

I actually asked a Tea Partier way back in 2010 what they think should happen to a child who has cancer, with a family unable to pay for any treatment. They first said that the "community" should pay for treatment. I pointed out that they just suggested a tax, and they didn't get it. I compared this to the UK NHS, and they still didn't understand that this is still a tax on the many to assist the weakest in society!

Taxes are an invouluntary contribution to society versus a vouluntary one which is what the Tea Party person may of been suggesting.

And if you are going to laud the wonders of the UK NHS, then I suggest you come prepared for the onslaught of issues inherent with that system.

I'm the first to admit there are problems with the NHS, but in comparison to what exists in the USA, and in comparison to the society we had without it, I could wipe the floor with any opposing argument

reply to post by Rocker2013


The problem is cost.

Instead of looking for ways to reduce costs of healthcare, our government looked for ways to pay for the high costs.

It did that by increasing government size.

That, in my humble, is not a long-term solution. Government is by it's very nature, slow, ponderous, ineffective, and a waste in money, time, resources.

Those in the Tea Party look to reduce the size of government and smart solutions to the problems we are all facing.


Bottom line, if you want big government, you aren't interested in what the Tea Party has to say.

Originally posted by beezzer
Bottom line, if you want big government, you aren't interested in what the Tea Party has to say.

But at the same time, those who want smaller government don't have to follow the Tea Party.

I can believe whatever I choose to believe, and I would follow groups and associate myself to them when they have a common idea to me, but by doing that I also have to subscribe to their other opinions, actions and beliefs.

If you are a member of a group in which something criminal, immoral or objectionable is happening, it is your responsibility to remove yourself from it, or face the inevitable "guilt by association".

If you are walking down the street with a group of friends and one of them starts racially abusing someone, you would presumably walk away or distance yourself from them, not just stand there and tell people it's their opinion and not yours. What would you expect people to think?

If people want to be a part of a larger group BY CHOICE and that group acts in a way that causes you embarrassment, insult or harm in some way, it's your responsibility.

It might not be fair to judge all with the same brush (I do know that there are some decent people in the Tea Party, even though they cannot explain to me why they support the whole when they know there is an extreme right-wing element in there, he's gay too, BTW), but people have the choice to remain associated with groups like this, and by doing so they are at least giving their own permission for that action.

If I were a member of a UK group like this, because I believe in smaller government, I would see this and immediately be contacting others in the group to tell them I am leaving. I would be sharing this with others in the group and encouraging them to do the same too. This is not acceptable to me on any level, and I would not want to be associated with such a group - even if it is a minority within that group.

reply to post by Rocker2013


All that is good and well, but the converse applies as well.

So many progressives say and do outlandish things, yet they argue vehemently that "they" don't represent the whole.

I'd wonder if you could find any group that consists of 100% wonderful people.

I'm a conservative, yet I thing same-sex marriage should be allowed. Does that still make me a conservative?

I believe that government is too big. I believe in personal responsibility.

Does that make me a radical?

Haters are gonna hate. People who want a large intrusive government are going to be against any attempt to make it smaller. They will smear, isolate (even send the IRS after) them.

These are people who want a large, intrusive, nanny-state government.

Of course they will see it as a caring government, but that is my own bias, I suppose.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

All that is good and well, but the converse applies as well.

So many progressives say and do outlandish things, yet they argue vehemently that "they" don't represent the whole.

But the "whole" of what?

I cannot accuse the entire Republican movement of being racists just because one is, but I can wonder why there are so many Republicans willing to ignore it, overlook it, and not challenge it.
Regardless, this doesn't make every conservative in the world a racist.

In the same way, no one can scream about all "liberals" being the same either.

I'm a liberal, generally left leaning, I'm gay, an atheist, but I believe in smaller government and I believe that those who can work and CHOOSE not to should be given less until they are motivated to actually work.

You see, people are people, and we all have diverse opinions on all kinds of things. But the moment you join a group of people you are adopting their actions and ideologies as your own. Unless you are seen to be challenging them then you can expect to be viewed as supporting them.

The same is happening in the UK right now with the far-right.

There are potentially thousands of people joining them through Facebook and Twitter because they are (rightly) angry about the death of a soldier on our streets by extremists. But those same people now also have to defend the EDL members rioting with police in the street, the videos of them yelling football chants outside pubs, the pictures of members giving Nazi salutes, the speeches of members who show their complete ignorance and borderline illiteracy... these are all things those people are now associating themselves with, just because they are angry about the young mans death.

It's great to have an opinion about something, but it's important to be careful about what you are aligning yourself with just because you want to express that view.

Independent in thought and action is the way to be in most cases.

Originally posted by beezzer
It was?

Yep. It has its roots in the tobacco corporations' astroturf campaign of the 1980s:

A new academic study confirms that front groups with longstanding ties to the tobacco industry and the billionaire Koch brothers planned the formation of the Tea Party movement more than a decade before it exploded onto the U.S. political scene.

Far from a genuine grassroots uprising, this astroturf effort was curated by wealthy industrialists years in advance. Many of the anti-science operatives who defended cigarettes are currently deploying their tobacco-inspired playbook internationally to evade accountability for the fossil fuel industry's role in driving climate disruption.

(Source).

And here's what the study says:

Starting in the 1980s, tobacco companies worked to create the appearance of broad opposition to tobacco control policies by attempting to create a grassroots smokers’ rights movement.

Simultaneously, they funded and worked through third-party groups, such as Citizens for a Sound Economy, the predecessor of AFP and FreedomWorks, to accomplish their economic and political agenda.

There has been continuity of some key players, strategies and messages from these groups to Tea Party organisations. As of 2012, the Tea Party was beginning to spread internationally.

...Rather than being a purely grassroots movement that spontaneously developed in 2009, the Tea Party has developed over time, in part through decades of work by the tobacco industry and other corporate interests.

It is important for tobacco control advocates in the USA and internationally, to anticipate and counter Tea Party opposition to tobacco control policies and ensure that policymakers, the media and the public understand the longstanding connection between the tobacco industry, the Tea Party and its associated organisations.

(Source).

Note the three groups mentioned above:

Citizens for a Sound Economy—created by the Koch brothers.
AFP—created by the Koch brothers.
FreedomWorks—created by the Koch brothers.

They all played their part in the creation of the Tea Party.

Here's a new documentary about it: astroturfwars.org...

Our group remains untouched by any outside organization or individual. We started our Tea Party group a few years ago with folks who were democrat, republican, conservative, liberal, . . . .

Regardless of what group you started and how you started it, the fact remains that you've effectively joined a pre-existing movement originally created by industry shills and professional lobbyists to advance the interests of corporate elites.

Originally posted by beezzer
I'm a conservative, yet I thing same-sex marriage should be allowed. Does that still make me a conservative?

No, it makes you a liberal. For the record, I'm conservative and opposed to same-sex marriage.

1) The video (and others) was posted by "Ohio Progessives"---Communists?

2) Although this group of Teapartiers may be legit, some groups with "TeaParty" in their name seem to clearly be deceptive, money making operations set up by the other side or by entrepenaurial swindlers.

3) The guy with the sign was begging for money--illegal in most public places. Betcha he is already getting $50K+/yr in Federal handouts, SSI disability and other programs.

4) I think the video was a set-up operation by Leftists/Progressives/Democrats/Communists---whatever they're calling themselves these days.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

The problem is cost.

Instead of looking for ways to reduce costs of healthcare, our government looked for ways to pay for the high costs.

It did that by increasing government size.

That, in my humble, is not a long-term solution. Government is by it's very nature, slow, ponderous, ineffective, and a waste in money, time, resources.

Those in the Tea Party look to reduce the size of government and smart solutions to the problems we are all facing.


Bottom line, if you want big government, you aren't interested in what the Tea Party has to say.

actually, Obama cut over-payments to medical professionals to the tune of 70 billion a year, 700 billion projected over a 10-year period, but republicans don't want to hear that because it disrupts their narrative and their pre-conceived notions that democrats always raise taxes, and never cut spending.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
1) The video (and others) was posted by "Ohio Progessives"---Communists?

2) Although this group of Teapartiers may be legit, some groups with "TeaParty" in their name seem to clearly be deceptive, money making operations set up by the other side or by entrepenaurial swindlers.

3) The guy with the sign was begging for money--illegal in most public places. Betcha he is already getting $50K+/yr in Federal handouts, SSI disability and other programs.

4) Therefore, I think the video was a set-up operation by Leftists/Progressives/Democrats/Communists---whatever they're calling themselves these days.

the guy in the video with the white shirt and tie, who threw a dollar bill down toward the guy, reminds me of some old footage of instigators of hatred during 1930's Germany.....if you had given these people billy clubs, do you think they would have landed a few blows on this guy?......I think the guy in the white shirt and tie would have, he was fired up and visably twitching.

reply to post by jimmyx


You can talk of cuts, but everyone is paying more.

Facts you can't trump.

So this video is represents the Tea Party as a whole. That is like saying that the Democrats in my home state [NY] represent the deomcratic parties true view on woman. Since I feel lazy I'll let others look into Vito Lopez and Sheldon Silver's little issue of hiding sexual harassment and paying hush money to the victims. It is a sad part of human nature that some people say one thing publicly then turn around and do the opposite behind the scenes. All you liberals can trumpet from the rooftops how morally superior the party that claims to mirror your views is. But when it boils down to it human nature destroys all the lofty goals of groups.

reply to post by muse7

You are being mocked...
2nd
ETA: Oh yes there is a second line...see you in November!

reply to post by muse7


I know a plant when I see it,
I bet you do too.

Telling that you posted this, and what timing!

the emperor has manipulated anakin so many times now, that we've seen the rise of darth vaders, literally MILLIONS OF TIMES. willingly letting someone manipulate you emotionally and physically, for the benefits you perceive it will bring you, is just more of the same bullcrap this planet has had to endure for millenia.

have an original thought for once

reply to post by Sankari


Where do you get your information from? Harry Reed, Polosi, Holder, Soros, Obama? You are behind the eight ball and spewing about things you have taken from unreliable sources. Shame on you.

reply to post by Sankari


I say that this gentleman has given back enough to society to be able to get some TLC.
I am sure he would do just about anything to go back to work!

ETA: This is just my "humanitarian" opinion regarding the situation given.
When it comes to the Tea Party itself I know nothing. I am sure that this video does not represent the views of all the members.

reply to post by beezzer


Well seeing as how ALL the recent mass murderers have been Democrats, and that this shocking video is circulating around the interwebz...it MUST be true!!! Shocking I tell you, #shocking

reply to post by muse7


I will certainly agree that if political hacks and bean counting losers take over Government, we all lose. Ooops.. Wait a sec? Uh oh... It's a bit late. I think they already have.

The biggest difference is that I've always felt the extreme left had screws lose and a bit of sanity missing from the recipe. It took most of my life and the last couple years in particular to realize it's not just extreme left, but extreme right that have nutjobs and screwballs by the truck load. Enough to fill Washington to overflowing (In fact, they do..).

If the focus wasn't on the partisan games of right/left that we all fight each other with, while giving the R's and D's in office great entertainment, I'd even agree with your OP. It's just a little too hard core partisan though. That game...yes..the one we all seem to play on cue and lose everything in the attempt to win.