Fine, let's START with love.

Ugh! So many times here I have read how people want to spread the love. They want all of us to BE love. They want a whole world of nothing but love.

Okay, you win! Let's imagine that every person on the planet oozes, gushes, and pukes up love every minute of every day. Now, how do we KEEP the world in this loving euphoria?

You haven't had a job in two years. Your wife and 2 kids are depending on you to get this job you've applied for. Sitting next to you in the office is someone with 3 kids and hasn't had a job in five years. Are you just going to get up and leave so he can get the job, or will you think, "Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!"

Is that love?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous! You fantasize about starting a family with this person and living happily ever after. Guess what, though? You can tell that your best friend is thinking the same things about this beautiful person. Do you step aside and watch the love of your life slip through your hands? If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery?
How many times in life would you step aside out of love for a friend or a sister or brother?

Is that love?
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You have a sibling a year older than you. This sibling, however, seems to have been born with natural abilities far exceeding yours. This sibling is better at sports, better in school, better at making friends... How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced to envy, or downright hatred. You know it's not his fault that he was born this way, but how do you keep the love? Or, if you are a parent of these two, how do you help your youngest maintain the love?
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To all you love-wishers, I seriously hope you can come up with rational answers, though I doubt that it's even possible. We humans were not designed to be all love.

So what's the Girls name?

I would love to know...

reply to post by jiggerj


This should be fun... bare with me I just woke up... damn midnights...

You haven't had a job in two years. Your wife and 2 kids are depending on you to get this job you've applied for. Sitting next to you in the office is someone with 3 kids and hasn't had a job in five years. Are you just going to get up and leave so he can get the job, or will you think, "Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!"

This scenario wouldn't happen.... IF everyone was gushing love as you say... everyone would be able to get a job... and there would always be jobs available for everyone... Greed can not exist in a world full of love....

CEO's and the people at the top of the chain wouldn't be skimming off the top, they would take what they need and spread the wealth around.

You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous! You fantasize about starting a family with this person and living happily ever after. Guess what, though? You can tell that your best friend is thinking the same things about this beautiful person. Do you step aside and watch the love of your life slip through your hands? If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery?

You're confusing love with lust... Said person would accept the fact that there are plenty of fish in the sea... People would see past a persons looks, and see the qualities inside another person instead of automatically looking for the gorgeous type...

How many times in life would you step aside out of love for a friend or a sister or brother

As many times as needed...

You have a sibling a year older than you. This sibling, however, seems to have been born with natural abilities far exceeding yours. This sibling is better at sports, better in school, better at making friends... How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced to envy, or downright hatred. You know it's not his fault that he was born this way, but how do you keep the love? Or, if you are a parent of these two, how do you help your youngest maintain the love?

Jealousy and envy are not qualities of love... Unless of course you're an Old testament fan..

Said person would accept the fact that his brother is better then him at certain things... No one is "the best" at anything... theres always someone better...

That brother would support his older sibling in his endeavors... and find something that makes him happy... and that hes good at...

NEXT?

Originally posted by jiggerj


You haven't had a job in two years. Your wife and 2 kids are depending on you to get this job you've applied for. Sitting next to you in the office is someone with 3 kids and hasn't had a job in five years. Are you just going to get up and leave so he can get the job, or will you think, "Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!"

I would sit there and see which of us fate or qualification deemed best for the job. Seems like there would be no reason to up and leave. It wouldnt be loving to do so. Charity is not love, it is charity. Love is ensuring your children do not have to starve, and drink watered down milk.

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You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous! You fantasize about starting a family with this person and living happily ever after. Guess what, though? You can tell that your best friend is thinking the same things about this beautiful person. Do you step aside and watch the love of your life slip through your hands? If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery?
How many times in life would you step aside out of love for a friend or a sister or brother?

If such a person comes into ones life, the last thing one ought to do is start making choices on thier behalf, especially if that person has only recently come into ones sphere of awareness. Obviously, being a new aquaintance, there is no way in the world one could possibly gain enough insight into that person to make choices that would be benificial to both that person, the friend, and ones self. Therefore, once again, leave nature to make its choice, and then live with its response.

--------------------------------------------------------------
You have a sibling a year older than you. This sibling, however, seems to have been born with natural abilities far exceeding yours. This sibling is better at sports, better in school, better at making friends... How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced to envy, or downright hatred. You know it's not his fault that he was born this way, but how do you keep the love? Or, if you are a parent of these two, how do you help your youngest maintain the love?

I actually have a sibling a little over two years younger than me. My sister had better oppertunities in terms of schooling, had a peer group before she reached sixteen, and is far more organised than I am in some respects. Now, I am twenty eight, and she is twenty five, and I still live with my mother, and she has moved out to a place of her own with her fiancee, a man who is one of my best friends, and will become my brother in law this August. I admire, respect, and love my sister, and I am intensely proud of her.

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To all you love-wishers, I seriously hope you can come up with rational answers, though I doubt that it's even possible. We humans were not designed to be all love.

edit on 5/24/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Truth is that love is irrational. In a purely Darwinian sense, it makes no sense what so ever, you know, if you fancy ignoring that we have always been a social animal as a species, that numbers make us stronger, or at least have done in ages past.... Mankind has always survived by way of its bi-polar nature. Peace and aggression, love and hate, joy and sorrow. Take away either thing, and it all falls down, a house of cards without foundation, a helicopter which suddenly finds itself rotorless, and at the cruel mercy of gravity.

reply to post by jiggerj


First of all, jigger, I Love your thought provoking OPs. When I saw you were the author, while scanning the forums I read, I just had to stop by and well, you got me thinking.

Now, how do we KEEP the world in this loving euphoria?

We can't. Life isn't about all happiness. There has to be a nice balance, and rather than needing more love, it's more simply a matter of people finding balance. Those well-wishers you speak of are only trying to balance the hoards of negativity in the world. It's more about happiness than love.

You haven't had a job in two years....."Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!" Is that love?

No, that's laziness. Barring a medical condition, there's no excuse for someone to be unemployed for that long. McDonald's is always hiring. What did you hypothetical bum/husband do for 2 years? Being underemployed has nothing to do with love, and everything to do with pure laziness.

You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous!.......If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery? Is that love?

No, that's lust. The dating world is a dog-eat-dog environment. Competition is rough. You want a family and kids? Better get your game on.

You have a sibling a year older than you.......how do you keep the love?

That's natural selection for you. You should realize that not everyone can be Adonis, and accept your humble place in the world, perhaps by picking up woodcarving, and making figurines. Give that sibling one once a year for a xmas present, and see what you get in return.

It's going to be hard for me to add to this one. What I think of "love" isn't any of the things mentioned in the OP.

I think love is a firm and steadfast determination to help a person to the highest good.

That may mean taking some one back of the woodshed and applying the necessary "corrective persuasion." It may mean kicking a child out of the house. (35, underwear, and a level 47 champion of "Kill 'em all" edition 8.) Perhaps pointing them toward mental or physical care, even having them committed in extreme circumstances is what love requires. Rubbing your wife's feet when they're sore, even if you're exhausted.

I could list dozens of examples, but I hope you get my point.

Love doesn't have a place in your thread.

It's more survival of the fittest...with the examples your provided.

Even getting the girl you want is a competition when one or more men want the same women. Who ever resembles a leader, protector and provider gets nominated.

The whole love gushing thing usually belongs to teenagers and young people below the age of 30/35? It is natural for most humans with any kind of heart; extreme liberal beliefs in many cases which work in the world they want but not in reality or the real world that exist. This state of mind usually changes in the 30s and by the 40s becomes much more conservative......... or so many things I have read over the years seems to demonstrate/discuss. Whether true or just words on a paper it matters not for it is as it is...... I would settle for a little more tolerance amongst humans, along with truth, honor, and justice!

reply to post by jiggerj


Awesome thread, Jiggerj.

I don't have any answers to your inquiries, because I don't believe that love is the answer. Love is an emotion, just like any other. A strong one, to be sure, but then again so are wrath and hate and pain. As my favorite musician said:

Love is patient, love is kind
Love is drunk, and love is blind

It will take more than love to save us from ourselves.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Awesome thread, Jiggerj.

I don't have any answers to your inquiries, because I don't believe that love is the answer. Love is an emotion, just like any other. A strong one, to be sure, but then again so are wrath and hate and pain. As my favorite musician said:

Love is patient, love is kind
Love is drunk, and love is blind

It will take more than love to save us from ourselves.

~ Wandering Scribe

Correction brother...

Lust is drunk.... Lust is blind...

reply to post by Akragon




What is love, but a lust that we have justified in our mind?

Note: yes, I realize in the studio version he doesn't sing "love is patient", but he does occasionally sing it live that way, playing off of the Corinthians verse.

~ Wandering Scribe

In all my many years I have learned a thing or two. Let me explain what I learned along the way.

As a teenager I thought education would make this whole world clear and shiny. Then I graduated and learned that the world didn’t give one tinkers damn about my schooling. Any idiot can have a piece of paper plastered on the wall, that doesn’t mean you’re intelligent. I could spend days introducing you to the complete idiots I’ve met who have PHD’s.

I decided education wasn’t the answer, and thought that truth must be it. So I sought truth. Before man, before time. before anything, the truth existed. It’s the only thing that has never changed. It’s the only thing that has never needed to change.

Truth is a lie. I know that sounds contradictory, but it’s the truth. It can be shaded in gray, it can be distorted, it can be bent to make it appear as anything one wants it to be. That’s why we have spin-doctors. You can tell the absolute truth while molding it around an absolute lie.

Truth was not the answer.

Then I discovered love. Not the fake hug and kissy type of social gatherings, but the love I have for my children. The love I have for those who have came into my life, made it better, and lifted me into heights I had not previously imagined.

Love is the only true thing of value you can gather in this life, and it’s the only true thing of value you can take when you leave it.

To the OP, You set up several straw men and punched them over. That was cute. You spoke nothing of love and it’s value to each of us.

In the end, it’s all we have left.

reply to post by Akragon

This scenario wouldn't happen.... IF everyone was gushing love as you say... everyone would be able to get a job... and there would always be jobs available for everyone... Greed can not exist in a world full of love....

You just woke up and I'm just going to bed. I'll have to leave you with this for now.

Love may do away with greed, but love does not make one a good worker. As a matter of fact, the last guy fired from where I work was all love. He loved god and tried to spread (preach) the love of god throughout the factory. Unfortunately, this left him with very little time for work.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Akragon

 

This scenario wouldn't happen.... IF everyone was gushing love as you say... everyone would be able to get a job... and there would always be jobs available for everyone... Greed can not exist in a world full of love....

You just woke up and I'm just going to bed. I'll have to leave you with this for now.

Love may do away with greed, but love does not make one a good worker. As a matter of fact, the last guy fired from where I work was all love. He loved god and tried to spread (preach) the love of god throughout the factory. Unfortunately, this left him with very little time for work.

Well... Evangelists rarely spread the correct message in my humble opinion... Their piousness usually get the best of them, and they start condemning people who don't believe exactly what they do...

And lets keep in mind we're talking about an ideal world... Not this pathetic excuse for a world

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

What is love, but a lust that we have justified in our mind?

Love is "selflessness" defined...

No justification needed...

Read over that passage from Paul... its the only thing I actually agree with him on

Originally posted by jiggerj
You haven't had a job in two years. Your wife and 2 kids are depending on you to get this job you've applied for. Sitting next to you in the office is someone with 3 kids and hasn't had a job in five years. Are you just going to get up and leave so he can get the job, or will you think, "Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!"

Is that love?

No one said a single individual practicing true unconditional love for all beings would have an easy life. It becomes an easy life when you're surrounded by everyone practicing unconditional love for all beings, but until we get there, that means making sacrifices and getting nothing in return for them. The well being of your mind is more important than physical well being.

Originally posted by jiggerj
You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous! You fantasize about starting a family with this person and living happily ever after. Guess what, though? You can tell that your best friend is thinking the same things about this beautiful person. Do you step aside and watch the love of your life slip through your hands? If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery?
How many times in life would you step aside out of love for a friend or a sister or brother?

Is that love?

Romantic love is not really love. It's lust. Western society likes to fool people into thinking it's love, but true unconditional love is not so passionate. Passion leads to suffering. Again, true unconditional love is not on a person-by-person basis, it is universal for all living things.

Originally posted by jiggerj
You have a sibling a year older than you. This sibling, however, seems to have been born with natural abilities far exceeding yours. This sibling is better at sports, better in school, better at making friends... How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced to envy, or downright hatred. You know it's not his fault that he was born this way, but how do you keep the love? Or, if you are a parent of these two, how do you help your youngest maintain the love?

"How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced"? As soon as you let it.


Overall, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what real love is. The closest example is the way a good parent loves their kid. It's love for all beings in a way where you want them to be happy, free from suffering, and at perfect peace. It's selfless.

reply to post by jiggerj


If the world was truly gushing with love, then it would be all love! Jobs would get done, but who cares who does what because we all love each other and are looking out for one another. I am unemployed, but it's okay because everybody loves me and will feed me. If I love a women and my best friend does that is also alright because we all love each other.

All of us have the potential to create this world, but You and I were brought up as strangers fearing strangers and we will never love each other. Well, probably not.

Everything here isnt all sunshine and rainbows. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt work towards it. An all love utopia would be great.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Ugh! So many times here I have read how people want to spread the love. They want all of us to BE love. They want a whole world of nothing but love.

Okay, you win! Let's imagine that every person on the planet oozes, gushes, and pukes up love every minute of every day. Now, how do we KEEP the world in this loving euphoria?

You haven't had a job in two years. Your wife and 2 kids are depending on you to get this job you've applied for. Sitting next to you in the office is someone with 3 kids and hasn't had a job in five years. Are you just going to get up and leave so he can get the job, or will you think, "Screw you, buddy. I have a family too. I'm taking that job!"

Is that love?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You are introduced to someone that makes your heart pound. This person is gorgeous! You fantasize about starting a family with this person and living happily ever after. Guess what, though? You can tell that your best friend is thinking the same things about this beautiful person. Do you step aside and watch the love of your life slip through your hands? If you do step aside, will you be feeling love or misery?
How many times in life would you step aside out of love for a friend or a sister or brother?

Is that love?
--------------------------------------------------------------
You have a sibling a year older than you. This sibling, however, seems to have been born with natural abilities far exceeding yours. This sibling is better at sports, better in school, better at making friends... How long before your love of this sibling gets reduced to envy, or downright hatred. You know it's not his fault that he was born this way, but how do you keep the love? Or, if you are a parent of these two, how do you help your youngest maintain the love?
----------------------------------------------------------

To all you love-wishers, I seriously hope you can come up with rational answers, though I doubt that it's even possible. We humans were not designed to be all love.

edit on 5/24/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Problem is always a Problem when we don't do something about it: accept or avoid or solve

Envy/Jealousy appears when you don't accept, appreciate, love yourself the way you are.

About job? Be honest to yourself: do you need the job or not? If yes accept it (you give love to yourself)
If not: step aside (you give love to others who need the job)

About winning gorgeus female friends? Same thing! about honesty. You have to be honest with yourself: do you want her? Really really want her? If Yes, then do something about it: Be yourself, do your best, and get her. If you fail, accept it. Be proud that you already did your best (this is Love to yourself)

If you dont want her? step aside and let others to pursue (you give love to others)
if you want to help your friend to win her, as long as your intention is pure, it's already love yes? Love to your friend and to the girl

reply to post by jiggerj

The individual does not know of true love - human love is fear driven. There is always fear of losing or not having enough love because each individual is feeling lack. No individual feels whole and complete and they believe they can find their other half - and when they fall in lust they think it is love because for a while they feel complete and whole. But it is just the honeymoon period. Soon that feeling goes away and the feeling of incompleteness returns and then there is disappointment and anger toward the one who should be filling you up - the belief is they have failed or you have failed.
The idea that someone can make you feel better is not true. You have to find love within before you can share love - otherwise you will just be a thief stealing love, wanting more and more but never feeling satisfied..