Enoch Powell April 20th 1968 Birmingham UK.

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posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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People of the UK (or some of them anyway) will recall the famous speech made by The Right Honourable Enoch Powell MBE. at The Midland Hotel in Birmingham.just over 45 years ago. The transcript of the speech is here:-

martinfrost.ws...

and the background to it here:-

en.wikipedia.org...

Powell was forced from office over making the speech.

Was Powell a visionary or just a racist? I find it difficult to answer that question. I like many others saw Powell as someone who was anti immigration purely for the sake of it.




posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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sounds like he was rather blunt and lacked the tact to address the issue even in the 60's could imagine how he would perceived now days...

The root of the problem was not immigration, but assimilation, Rome was successful because of its assimilation of aliens into its boarders.

They made sure their history and culture became roman, not the other way around.

That is the root of all the xenophobia around immigration, their needs to be assimilation guarantees and structures to ensure it.

It means being harsh at times, while still being aware of the humanitarian need for immigration.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
sounds like he was rather blunt and lacked the tact to address the issue even in the 60's could imagine how he would perceived now days...

The root of the problem was not immigration, but assimilation, Rome was successful because of its assimilation of aliens into its boarders.

They made sure their history and culture became roman, not the other way around.

That is the root of all the xenophobia around immigration, their needs to be assimilation guarantees and structures to ensure it.

It means being harsh at times, while still being aware of the humanitarian need for immigration.


I agree up to a point, as in 'do as the Romans do'. However most immigrants of all kinds do just that, but all societies are fluid too, and there has been many changes in Britain since I was a lad growing up in Kent. The most important thing though is that we all should obey the good and sensible laws of the land, and anyone considering settling here, if there is any conflict in their religious practice and family customs, or any of their ways of life with British laws, they should reconsider coming here. Otherwise they are welcome, and since many immigrants are industrious and hard working, and contribute to the national wealth just as did the Turkish and Italians, and Indonesians helping rebuild Germany post WW2.
I'm not so sure though that we need a thread like this after the recent events.
edit on 24-5-2013 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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Just for the record, my username has nothing to do with Enoch Powell. The famous slogan for Enoch Powell was, Enoch was right. No relation to my Avatar. My Enoch namesake is 7th after Adam.

Was Enoch right? I'll be interested to finding out.


Originally posted by alldaylong
People of the UK (or some of them anyway) will recall the famous speech made by The Right Honourable Enoch Powell MBE. at The Midland Hotel in Birmingham.just over 45 years ago. The transcript of the speech is here:-

martinfrost.ws...

and the background to it here:-

en.wikipedia.org...

Powell was forced from office over making the speech.

Was Powell a visionary or just a racist? I find it difficult to answer that question. I like many others saw Powell as someone who was anti immigration purely for the sake of it.
edit on 24-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong
People of the UK (or some of them anyway) will recall the famous speech made by The Right Honourable Enoch Powell MBE. at The Midland Hotel in Birmingham.just over 45 years ago. The transcript of the speech is here:-

martinfrost.ws...

and the background to it here:-

en.wikipedia.org...

Powell was forced from office over making the speech.

Was Powell a visionary or just a racist? I find it difficult to answer that question. I like many others saw Powell as someone who was anti immigration purely for the sake of it.


"Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles"

Enoch was well aware of the pitfalls, in fact much of his speech was qualified like the above passage where he used anecdotes like the middle age worker and the old lady pensioner. Elsewhere, he used "piccaninnies" when talking about children who said racist to the old lady, which he doesn't really qualify, since they could have been correct commonwealth 'immigrant' citizens as he had already stated, or from somewhere else and which really needed some qualification in some kind of context as to what he had already said.
The preoccupations of the state that he mentioned at the time may well have included the Northern Ireland troubles then rumbling, and as it turned out he had much to say about the machinations of MI5/6 and CIA as rogue enterprises back then, or not much later which included the troubles, so who knows?
Yes, he should have been listened to for a variety of reasons. A racist? much harder to define since he used anecdotes from other people in that speech.
Intelligent, beyond doubt. Possibility of ever holding the highest office? never, because he knew too much.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


...and Enoch Powell was wrong. History has refuted him comprehensively.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


Was a bit of a racist i thought



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 02:48 AM
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This is the same Enoch Powell, while as Minister for health, went to the commonwealth countries to invite people to come and work in the hospitals and NHS of the UK.

Most people tend to leave that fact out.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by EA006
reply to post by alldaylong
 


Was a bit of a racist i thought


If it is a racist thing to oppose the genocide of ones people, then it is a tremendous honor to be such a racist.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by benrl
sounds like he was rather blunt and lacked the tact to address the issue even in the 60's could imagine how he would perceived now days...

The root of the problem was not immigration, but assimilation, Rome was successful because of its assimilation of aliens into its boarders.

.


Powell was not anti immigration, he was responsible for many of the people from the indian subcontinent arriving and working here.

He was a war hero and a statesman.

He was not blunt he was a visionary but people did not like his 'vision', despite the fact that riots and blood shed have ensued - look no futher then 2011 and the London Riots.

Or even several days ago when a British soldier had his head chopped off in London, whilst his attacker yelled ' 'allah akbar' and spoke about ' his lands' meaning the country he comes from.

People are scared to speak out - they follow the herd, hence why they are referred to by many as sheep

By the way Rome was destroyed by invading peoples/armies - the huns.

.
edit on 26-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by Sankari
reply to post by alldaylong
 


...and Enoch Powell was wrong. History has refuted him comprehensively.


No it has not,

Explain why you think that is please.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by Sankari
 


I think you got that one the wrong way round, as history progresses we are seeing what he said as right.

Just because some so called 'intellectuals' in charge of of the media etc have been ramming it down our throats for the past 40 years that he was wrong or a racist doesn't make it so.

Wake up and look at he UK for yourself, the man couldn't of got it more right.
There is complete areas where 'White' people can't go because immigrants have taken over, and this situation is worsening.
London is majority immigrant?
We have immigrants (albeit second generation) attacking our war heroes on the streets.

So, pray tell, how was Enoch wrong?



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by alldaylong

Was Powell a visionary or just a racist? I find it difficult to answer that question. I like many others saw Powell as someone who was anti immigration purely for the sake of it.


I have heard it commented that he overstated his case, for instance, "River of Blood..."

Consequently, anyone who has raised concerns about immigration since then (in the UK) has seen their argument framed in terms of Powell's somewhat over the top outpourings.

In a sense he gave left wing extremists a stick to beat right wing activists with.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


Yes he was right. I've been saying this for years.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Gazmeister
reply to post by alldaylong
 


Yes he was right. I've been saying this for years.


Powell was a brilliant man, and highly accomplished in many areas of his life—but on matters of race he couldn't look past his own prejudice.

If he was right, where are the 'rivers of blood'? Didn't happen!

Powell quoted the alleged words of a local constituent, who predicted: 'In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man.' If he was right, why are black people not in control of the UK already, enjoying 'the whip hand over the white man'?

Conflict is caused by the type of prejudice and racism that Powell promoted. It's not caused by egalitarian policies.
edit on 26/5/13 by Sankari because: typo...



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Sankari
 


It's people believing this sort of nonsense that has the situation as bad as it is.

In offices and workplaces across the UK managers are having to bite their tongues on a daily basis because if you discipline someone of 'colour' you will have the race card pulled on you. Once the race card is pulled you have all the fools jumping on the band wagon regardless.
I would say most of us have witnessed this.

Complete NO GO areas for white people in ENGLAND and you think this isn't the 'black man' having the whip?

All the gang related violence in London nothing to do with immigrants is it?



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Sankari

If he was right, where are the 'rivers of blood'? Didn't happen!



how about the year of 1981, race riots in
toxteth
brixton
handsworth
chappletown
sheffield

or in 2001
oldham
harehills
bradford

they may not be rivers of blood but they were definately streams



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by Gazmeister
reply to post by alldaylong
 


.

If he was right, where are the 'rivers of blood'? Didn't happen!

...


He was a Professor of the Classics.
The 'rivers of blood' you refer to he DID NOT say - he said

''As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."

Which was a quote from Virgil’s Aeneid

en.wikipedia.org... Virgil's Aeneid.

Written before Christ was born.
edit on 26-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by Gazmeister
reply to post by alldaylong
 


.

If he was right, where are the 'rivers of blood'? Didn't happen!

...


He was a Professor of the Classics.
The 'rivers of blood' you refer to he DID NOT say - he said

''As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."

Which was a quote from Virgil’s Aeneid

en.wikipedia.org... Virgil's Aeneid.

Written before Christ was born.
edit on 26-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)


So, for a river to be foaming with blood, that'd take a lot of bodies, yeah? Is there a time limit on when this prophecy runs out, or is it going to be revised every time there's an itching for a race war by a certain section of the UK populace?



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


It was a quote from a poem penned by a Roman.
Please read what was written.
Do you understand metaphor ?





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