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The Truth Comes Out: Former IRS Director Admits Taxes Are Voluntary

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posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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This is just a friendly reminder that we are "free" to do what we are told.

Americans "voluntarily" pay taxes. And those who choose to not pay taxes "voluntarily" go to federal prison for a while.

And they say it with a straight face every time.


The Truth Comes Out: Former IRS Director Admits Taxes Are Voluntary


Steve Miller, former Director of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), admitted at a Congressional hearing that the taxes collected by the IRS are not mandatory – but voluntary.




posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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Voluntary they say. Tell that to those serving prison for not paying their share of that voluntary tax.

Have they just decided that we are so stupid that will believe any lie told by an authority figure?



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by jrod
 





Have they just decided that we are so stupid that will believe any lie told by an authority figure?


Yes that's what they decided. And most people do believe what they say.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 


Sad but true. Some people will believe anything from a 'trusted' figure, or anything that is on the news.

And to think those same people are the same ones who tell me I need to grow up, stop living on a boat rent free, and work on my credit score. You can't fix stupid, only profit on others stupidity.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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I've heard this for years and wonder why "forced-volunteer" (talk about a contradiction of terms!) taxation has not been tried in the courts. Doesn't common sense dictate that it can't be at once forced and volunteer???



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:41 PM
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Of course it is voluntary.

You can voluntarily submit your information to the government to be taxed, or you can wait for the government to catch up with you and pay the taxes you owe, usually including late fees.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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This is how it works, basically.

The .gov is not allowed to tax an individual on their income, this is illegal.

They are however allowed to regulate and tax anything they want as far as businesses are concerned.

So either your employer will have to pay your taxes for your income, or they will trick you into being contractually bound to do so instead.

This is why you fill out tax paperwork before you begin working, this is a legal contract between you and the government that your agreeing to pay these taxes instead of the company.

Now you have willingly entered into a legal contract with the government, and the business, relieving the business of the tax burden for your salary, otherwise they will find another idiot that will agree and you will be jobless.

Sucks but it is the way it works.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by leftofplumb
I've heard this for years and wonder why "forced-volunteer" (talk about a contradiction of terms!) taxation has not been tried in the courts.

Incorrect. One example.

Appellants' claim that payment of federal income tax is voluntary clearly lacks substance. See Newman v. Schiff, 778 F.2d 460, 467 (8th Cir.1985). And, finally, we reject appellants' contention that they are not citizens of the United States, but rather "Free Citizens of the Republic of Minnesota" and, consequently, not subject to taxation. See United States v. Kruger, 923 F.2d 587, 587-88 (8th Cir.1991) (rejecting similar argument as "absurd").

bulk.resource.org...

Once again. As has been explained many, many times. Paying income taxes is not voluntary.

(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, and
(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),
a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

www.law.cornell.edu...
You can read the rest of the law and see that applies to anyone with taxable income.

What is "voluntary" is our telling the IRS how much income tax we owe instead of them doing it for us. Of course, they can always come back at you and tell you did it wrong...or you lied.

Of course, you can go to court over it if you want.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by whatsecret
This is just a friendly reminder that we are "free" to do what we are told.

Americans "voluntarily" pay taxes. And those who choose to not pay taxes "voluntarily" go to federal prison for a while.

And they say it with a straight face every time.


The Truth Comes Out: Former IRS Director Admits Taxes Are Voluntary


Steve Miller, former Director of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), admitted at a Congressional hearing that the taxes collected by the IRS are not mandatory – but voluntary.


Why dont you explain this to Wesley Snipes im sure he had 3 years to think about how taxes work.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


That actually makes sense. Thank you.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by leftofplumb
I've heard this for years and wonder why "forced-volunteer" (talk about a contradiction of terms!) taxation has not been tried in the courts.

Incorrect. One example.

Appellants' claim that payment of federal income tax is voluntary clearly lacks substance. See Newman v. Schiff, 778 F.2d 460, 467 (8th Cir.1985). And, finally, we reject appellants' contention that they are not citizens of the United States, but rather "Free Citizens of the Republic of Minnesota" and, consequently, not subject to taxation. See United States v. Kruger, 923 F.2d 587, 587-88 (8th Cir.1991) (rejecting similar argument as "absurd").

bulk.resource.org...

Once again. As has been explained many, many times. Paying income taxes is not voluntary.

(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, and
(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),
a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

www.law.cornell.edu...
You can read the rest of the law and see that applies to anyone with taxable income.

What is "voluntary" is our telling the IRS how much income tax we owe instead of them doing it for us. Of course, they can always come back at you and tell you did it wrong...or you lied.

Of course, you can go to court over it if you want.



actually, the marriage thing only applies because you are signing a legally binding "business" contract with the government agreeing to the "legal" term marriage, and thus placing yourself under the rules governing such, taxation being one of these.

It is a very subtle world the tax code, but it is all entirely voluntary i assure you, through legal speak, and society at large, one is forced, well "forced" any how, to agree to and sign these documents, that behind the sceens, and under the table allow the government to tax your income.

It was patently illegal for the entire history of the country to be taxed on your income, until the world wars and their debt, at which time documents like w2 and w4 and 10-99 came about.

It is all voluntary, but it is unseen, thus unknown to most.

It is a subtle difference, and one that the business side of the government, and thus the country has had to accept, because lets behonest and speak plainly here, there must be revenue to fund the government, in order to provide services.

If all revenue came from commerce, as intended, we would have 1/1000 the military and financial might the US currently holds.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by inverslyproportional
 


You are so wrong first the firsticome tax was during the civil war,Now the reason the government can tax your income is simple its right here:

16th Amendment
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by inverslyproportional
 


You are so wrong first the firsticome tax was during the civil war,Now the reason the government can tax your income is simple its right here:

16th Amendment
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.



Haha, people apparently overlook the obvious simple explanations so thank you for pointing it out.

I would actually hate to see what this country would look like if all these anti-tax people got their way. Is anyone under the impression that if taxes were voluntary that anyone would actually pay them?

Of course not. Now how long can our country survive without receiving taxes?

Not very long at all.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 


I'm 1099. Believe me, I don't want to pay taxes. However, I don't want to go to jail. I wouldn't do well there. So, I pay my taxes. Now ... what can I write off as a business expense???



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by ThreeNF
 


If taxes were voluntary I wouldn't pay any and I don't know anyone that would.

See the problem with people who push for this policy?



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 



Now how long can our country survive without receiving taxes?


Have you ever wondered why you must make your tax payment to the IRS rather than to the treasury department?



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


Of course, if we could all get away with not paying taxes, none of us would pay for it. I'm very interested in knowing how to not pay them. Unfortunately, I don't know that answer to that.

If someone can tell me how I can get away with not paying taxes and not go to jail, please let me know.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


You are so wrong, that does not name Lindividual" "citizen" specifically, which does make one hell of a large difference as far as legal speak goes.

All legal speak is quite specific, and leaves no room for doubt unless specifically intended.

What you quoted applies to states not "people" there is a large difference as far as legal speak goes.

Are "you" your "state"? Or are you an individual?

Your "state" does not owe your taxes, and "you" do not owe your "states" taxes.

"You" as an individual, owe taxes because you agreed willingly through either a W2 W4 or 10_99 or some other tax form, entering a legally binding contract to pay such, in stead of the corporation or company that would have to pay them on "your" income if you had not agreed to.

If "you" were required by law to do so at all times no matter what, why would the company have to have you sign these documents before any work?

It is because if you don't sign "they" are accountable for the taxes, and "they" don't want to pay them.

It is very clear in the tax code if you read it, it is all voluntary, you do agree to pay it for participation in certain activities, such as marriage or work, you are agreeing to pay these taxes by signing a legal contract.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 





I would actually hate to see what this country would look like if all these anti-tax people got their way. Is anyone under the impression that if taxes were voluntary that anyone would actually pay them?


I believe people would pay voluntarily for services they wanted and needed. Now would they pay for wars or foreign aid? That's another story.,

All you have to do is look at how much Americans voluntarily donate for natural disasters ang/or other causes.

The idea that the society would collapse if it weren't for big government is what amazes me. We need security, education and other public services, but governments really really suck at providing them. Private sector in a free market always do much better, because if they don't they go out of business.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by ThreeNF
reply to post by Hopechest
 


Of course, if we could all get away with not paying taxes, none of us would pay for it. I'm very interested in knowing how to not pay them. Unfortunately, I don't know that answer to that.

If someone can tell me how I can get away with not paying taxes and not go to jail, please let me know.



Ya, because vvery rich folks don't use their lawyers to avoid most of these "taxes" right?

They use the law against the government to work around them, hence people making millions paying the same rate as people making less than 100k.

It is because it is legal to do so, for every tax there IS a loophole, because there must be, because it is patently illegal to tax individual income.

They are allowed to tax business, they are allowed to tax commerce, they are allowed to tax interstate transport, they are not granted the power to tax the individual, they are usurping it through compliance.

It should be obvious, I guess the tax code is too tough for some to understand.

The words all mean EXACTLY what they say, nothing more, they can tax business, they can tax a state, they can tax interstate transport, they can taxsales of goods, they are not granted the power anywhere to tax an individuals income, not ever ont even once.


The individual agrees to do so, through a legally binding contract with the government and the employer, it is quite obvious.

I am not saying they don't or can't demand and get your income taxes.

I am saying we all agree at the start of employment to allow it, it is voluntary, we sign the contract agreeing to it, we thus owe the debt we agree to. As well as the penalties associated with that debt, we willfully agree to accept.

Your not understanding the differenve, and there is one, and it is quite drastic.



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