Pope Francis: Even Atheists are Redeemed

Originally posted by windword
Here's a comedic reaction from the self proclaimed "America's most famous Catholic", and the "Pope of Cable TV," Steven Colbert:

Colbert: If atheists can go to heaven, I want my Catholicism refunded

Was all that time on his knees as an altar boy for nothing? he asked. All the standing and sitting and kneeling every Sunday? Ash Wednesday, in which, he said, that smudge on his forehead, he thought, was “the hand-stamp for Club Heaven?”

“After busting my apse in the vineyard of the Lord,” he said, “some godless good guy can just swoop in at the eleventh hour and and get redeemed? I want a refund!”

Does this not sound like the parable of the prodigal son.
Maybe we see it's true meaning now?

reply to post by charles1952


Im not really sure if He can even be considered a Jew though... He was brought up in a jewish community, raised by them... Learned their scriptures... and then corrected them.

He didn't rely on the teaching of Moses... in fact he went against what Moses said in many cases...

He even said "all that came before me were thieves and robbers" which is a bold statement coming from a so called Jew....

And by the way... He was executed for that very reason... Calling himself the son of God is the same as saying you're God in the Judaic belief set... Even to this day they will not associate anything with God... they won't even type the word God...

reply to post by charles1952

Birlliant. Awesome post.

Jesus left no room for any other interpretation or than he actually was who he said he was, C.S. Lewis makes the same point again and drives it home with the liar, madman, badman, or, authentic honest humble servant sent from God, argument.

"I am the true vine."
"I am the good shephard."
"I am the light of life."
"I am the bread of life."
"I am the resurrection and the life."
"I am the gatefold."
"No one comes to the father but by me."

He did this on purpose, and did not leave the option to call him simply a good man or a moral teacher, because of all things he was entirely honest, and sincere.

What a MARVEL! (shouting!)

Best regards,

NAM

*grin*

..so it appears that the goodcop/badcop method s working here
and the phrase "catch more flies with syrup as with vinegar "

ofcóurse this ' pope ' makes those statements

since he s but a tool to help religious Masses into the atlantean NWO

where is but a Mimick of 'love ' and ' goodness ' and ' care '

And ofcóurse he appeals to everyone who hears this... - who dóesnt want to get saved ?

But it dont work like that.

Next official statement will be from him : "also aliens are saved ' .

Bet ?

Originally posted by charles1952
[
The other thing he said was " . . . but I say to you." Jesus repeats the Jewish teachings as based in Moses. That was as great as an authority as there was. Then he pops off with, "Forget that. I'm telling you the real truth." Here's a reaction from a writer.

But this..

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

-- Genesis 49:10

The Law changes when the new lawgiver comes. That's why the law changed when Jesus came. And the people gathered unto him, and his new law.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by charles1952

 

Birlliant. Awesome post.

Jesus left no room for any other interpretation or than he actually was who he said he was, C.S. Lewis makes the same point again and drives it home with the liar, madman, badman, or, authentic honest humble servant sent from God, argument.

"I am the true vine."
"I am the good shephard."
"I am the light of life."
"I am the bread of life."
"I am the resurrection and the life."
"I am the gatefold."
"No one comes to the father but by me."

He did this on purpose, and did not leave the option to call him simply a good man or a moral teacher, because of all things he was entirely honest, and sincere.

What a MARVEL! (shouting!)

Best regards,

NAM

edit on 24-5-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

The one thing you forget is that there are many gods...

Everyone including Jesus knew that in biblical times.... even paul...

reply to post by Lone12

And ofcóurse he appeals to everyone who hears this... - who dóesnt want to get saved ?

But it dont work like that.

Next official statement will be from him : "also aliens are saved ' .

Bet?

What?
That is ridiculous.
What is 'wrong' with what he's saying?!!

How do you know 'it don't work like that.'???
Sources, please.

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

Thanks a lot, we seem to have found common ground again. (Are you getting more tolerant in your old age? )

I might be mistaken, but it seems like you're saying that Jesus couldn't have been a Jew because, if He was, he'd be claiming to be above Moses, equal to God.

He didn't rely on the teaching of Moses... in fact he went against what Moses said in many cases...

He even said "all that came before me were thieves and robbers" which is a bold statement coming from a so called Jew....

It's a bold statement from anyone. He was tried in a Jewish court with Jewish judges, on Jewish charges, yet He wasn't a Jew?

Here's something from PBS. It's one brief article among several that take the same position.

Shaye I.D. Cohen:
Samuel Ungerleider Professor of Judaic Studies and Professor of Religious Studies Brown University
Was Jesus Jewish and, if he was, how would that have influenced his experiences as a young man growing up in Galilee?

Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests.... He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text.

What's striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn't. The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don't even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul. That is an idea which comes about only later.

So, to say that he was a Jew is saying a truism, is simply stating an idea that is so obvious on the face of it, one wonders it even needs to be said. But, of course, it does need to be said because we all know what happens later in the story, where it turns out that Christianity becomes something other than Judaism and as a result, Jesus in retrospect is seen not as a Jew, but as something else, as a founder of Christianity. But, of course, he was a Jew.

www.pbs.org...

And by the way... He was executed for that very reason... Calling himself the son of God is the same as saying you're God in the Judaic belief set... Even to this day they will not associate anything with God... they won't even type the word God...

The Jews that formed His community believed he said He was God. We've now got eyewitnesses saying He claimed to be God.

I don't know Akragon, but it sure looks to me like He was Jewish. And for a Jew to say those things we have the problem clearly expressed above. Demon, Madman, or God. I know where I'm putting my money.

With respect, (and another hug because you're being so strong against "frustrating Christians.")
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

It's a bold statement from anyone. He was tried in a Jewish court with Jewish judges, on Jewish charges, yet He wasn't a Jew?

Do you believe Jesus accepted labels made by man?

And if per chance you do... Do you believe said label restricts him from knowing what is truth?

considering he said I AM the truth?

Are you getting more tolerant in your old age?

Ugh... maybe?

Im 34 and sometimes I feel like an old fart... especially considering what/who I was in the past

I don't know Akragon, but it sure looks to me like He was Jewish. And for a Jew to say those things we have the problem clearly expressed above. Demon, Madman, or God. I know where I'm putting my money.

Well if he was a jew... he wasn't a very good one.. breaking laws and stuff... Geez

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

Forget what I said about you getting old, you're at least as spry as ever. I'm still trying to figure this one out.

Do you believe Jesus accepted labels made by man?

Do you mean the label of Jew? I suppose He did accept it. He accepted the label of male, and even the label of baby when He was born. He spent thirty years with nothing being recorded indicating that He wasn't a Jew.

And if per chance you do... Do you believe said label restricts him from knowing what is truth?

I don't see why it should restrict Him. Nor should it restrict Jews from being cutting edge philosophers or scientists.

considering he said I AM the truth?

Isn't that a claim that he is God?

You might not be getting old, Akragon, but I sure am. This one has left Mr. Confusion in the dust. When you come to visit me in the Old Folk's Home, smuggle in a bottle of Scotch, will you? My brain is giving up the ghost (Not the Holy Ghost, that's another discussion.)

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s.

Well if he was a jew... he wasn't a very good one.. breaking laws and stuff... Geez

And I'll bet you've never broken a law. I certainly haven't, I'm a good boy

reply to post by charles1952

Do you mean the label of Jew? I suppose He did accept it.

Did he call himself a jew?

He accepted the label of male, and even the label of baby when He was born.

Those aren't labels... lol

those are Words used to describe something... A label is something that is advertised...

He spent thirty years with nothing being recorded indicating that He wasn't a Jew.

Recorded by Jews who were around him... Of course "they" called him a jew... he knew their books better then they did... But on a side note... I know the gospels better then most Christians from what I've found... And im not Christian... yet most assume I am...

I don't see why it should restrict Him. Nor should it restrict Jews from being cutting edge philosophers or scientists.

Right... IF he was a jew... he would have had to adhear to jewish laws and traditions... but he didn't... be broke laws, taught better ones... and was hated by those were against him.... Who were the Professionals of "the law"... whom he ended up telling... Oh by the way... Your father is the devil...

I bet he was laughing when he said that...

Isn't that a claim that he is God?

Only to a jew...

You might not be getting old, Akragon, but I sure am. This one has left Mr. Confusion in the dust. When you come to visit me in the Old Folk's Home, smuggle in a bottle of Scotch, will you? My brain is giving up the ghost (Not the Holy Ghost, that's another discussion.)

Ironic... I take care of seniors for a living.. Come on up here and i'd be happy to help you brother...


Edit:

And I'll bet you've never broken a law. I certainly haven't, I'm a good boy

I thought Christians believed he was sinless...?

To a jew he was no where near apparently....

Me break a law?

Never..

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

I'm sorry to do this, but I have a couple of small thoughts to express. I admire your willingness to go wherever the argument takes you, even if it's to the proposition that Jesus was a non-observant Jew. That shows courage, good for you.

That takes you to the position that Jesus was a sinner, He violated His religious laws. I think that one won't win you any of those popularity points you so desperately crave.

My second thought is that I've gotten so far out on this track, that I might have to go back to see how we got here, and whether this is the discussion we should be having or if we've gotten side tracked.

My third thought is that I don't have the brain power to do it tonight. Besides, I have to be part of a mystic, religious ceremony tomorrow, and I have to be on the road by 8 A.M. with robes and other symbols. Let me try this tomorrow afternoon or evening, if you don't mind.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. If he was running around violating His religious rules, how come Jews followed Him, and called Him "Rabbi," and "good?" - C -

reply to post by charles1952

I'm sorry to do this, but I have a couple of small thoughts to express. I admire your willingness to go wherever the argument takes you, even if it's to the proposition that Jesus was a non-observant Jew. That shows courage, good for you.

Why be sorry?

That takes you to the position that Jesus was a sinner, He violated His religious laws. I think that one won't win you any of those popularity points you so desperately crave.

Hmm... thought you knew me better then that...

I don't care what ANYONE thinks of me... Except my mom...

My third thought is that I don't have the brain power to do it tonight. Besides, I have to be part of a mystic, religious ceremony tomorrow, and I have to be on the road by 8 A.M. with robes and other symbols. Let me try this tomorrow afternoon or evening, if you don't mind.

you a witch?

If he was running around violating His religious rules, how come Jews followed Him, and called Him "Rabbi," and "good?" -

They followed him because they were called to do so... by the true God, not the false one of old

His sheep hear his voice...

Oh and what happened when they called him Good?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

Actually, I was apologizing for my announcement that I was going to have to fold for the night. I owe you my best, and I don't have that available right now.

Nope, not a witch, but we do have a couple of mentions in the Secret Society forum. (I'm trying to build up suspense and mystery. Everything I said was technically true, but the reality is quite boring.)

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Then we shall continue this battle on the morrow good sir...

Er... when ever you feel the need....

I tell ya what it's great to be an atheist. I can sleep in on Sunday, I get christmas presents, and now I get to go to heaven!

Life is #ing good!!!!

reply to post by charles1952

even if it's to the proposition that Jesus was a non-observant Jew. That shows courage, good for you.

That takes you to the position that Jesus was a sinner, He violated His religious laws. I think that one won't win you any of those popularity points you so desperately crave.

He got a star from me, at least. I was feeling depressed, slight bipolar thing. Now I'm feeling better.

God is in the heart of everyone whether you want to admit it or not. You can all come on here professing to be atheists until you're blue in the face, but when your child is struggling to breathe or a crackhead has a shotgun barrel pressed to the back of your head, its in those moments that you're believers... we all are.

reply to post by windword



Of course they are "redeemed", because the life of a human with regard to religious beliefs has nothing to do with God, it has everything to do with soul and the evolution of the energy. This just proves what a crock religion is to begin with. I could care less what the pope says.

Is it impossible for some people to comprehend altruism? The illusion of heaven as a reward for good deeds defeats the purpose of goodness. I do my best to make the world a better place for myself and those around me; heaven is irrelevant.