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Pope Francis: Even Atheists are Redeemed

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posted on May, 24 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I think he means redemption is available to us all by Christ dying (past tense). There's also the language barrier.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 



Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
Francis just lost a superb amount of respect from me.


Yeah, it would have been so much better if he had condemned a bush of sinners to hell, huh? That's something that deserves respect.




Such a shame. He was doing so good, up until he spouts of universalist nonsense.


He should be a lot more discriminating, right? I mean, "everyone" includes atheists, black people, gay folks and Muslims! Even liberals!




posted on May, 24 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


No Christian has the ability to condemn anybody to hell. And, since the pope is more pagan than a Christian, he certainly has no ability to do it.

And I fail to see how black people tie in to this.
edit on 24-5-2013 by FollowTheWhiteRabbit because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 


I always thought you were a catholic. Wow! The way you see people on the internet. In my opinion many non Catholics and Christians like Pope Francis more because of his nicer image. Pope Benedict 16 was too conservative and against abortion, homosexuality, etc. Everything many progressive support.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Phoenix267
 


In my opinion many non Catholics and Christians like Pope Francis more because of his nicer image. Pope Benedict 16 was too conservative and against abortion, homosexuality, etc.
I'm an optimist, but I hope it's not the image. I hope people are saying "Yes! That's true! That's the message of God I and the world need!"

Benedict XVI? He was preaching the message the Church needed to hear. Basically it was "Clean up your act! Relearn the basics! Stop fooling around with heresies!" Remember, he had to deal with some serious scandals.

Francis needed the foundation which Benedict re-emphazised.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Phoenix267
 


Nah. Reformed Calvinist, Protestant.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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The Pope has come out and said "even atheists are redeemed"...too late for a retraction.


Matthew 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."


One of the last sacred promises imparted to Peter, the first Pope, by the Son of God before He left was... "Whatever you hold true on earth I'll hold true in heaven". It's dogmatic law. The Catholic Church says it's so, God must adhere.




posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 





Those cookies were delicious


I cut and pasted them myself!




Jesus came and offered to get our souls out of hock. He paid Satan for them, and returned them to us, saying "Take care of these souls, I died so you could get them back, don't screw it up this time." (That's not a literal translation. )


Let me get this straight. When Adam and Eve were evicted from the garden, they also forfeited their souls to Satan? So, before the death of Jesus, Satan owned all the souls except those who followed the 10 Commandments. After Jesus died, everyone got their souls back. Now we have autonomy over our souls, but could loose them again, at any time in a "Devil goes down to Georgia" moment, unless we believe the story about Jesus.

Or do we have to Petition Jesus to gain possession of our souls again?


At any rate, Christianity teaches that we need a "stamp of validation" from Jesus, in order for us to individually enter Heaven.

I guess the question is then, does one have to believe the story to gain entry into Heaven, or does one's actions earn them a stamp of validation, in the eyes of Jesus?



We can either set God up as the model we aspire to and follow His instructions, or use ourselves as the highest authority and sell ourselves back to the pawnshop


Adam and Eve weren't required to believe, they were required to abstain. If an atheist abstains from evil and does good work, which displays the model of godliness, is their soul validated? What does an atheist HAVE to believe before their souls' gain validation from Jesus?



Do you think we redeem ourselves? Or do we need an outside "something?"


I don't believe we ever lost possession of our souls and I don't believe anyone can steal souls. I don't believe in hell as a punishing place for non-believers.



if somebody pushes me out of the path of a speeding car, I think I owe him some gratitude even though he succeeded without my belief.


What speeding car has Jesus pushed me away from? I didn't feel a push, didn't feel any whoosh, and wasn't standing near the road. Does Jesus require gratitude for the imperceptible?



Remember the verses? Love God, and your neighbor as yourself?


What of those who don't believe in God, but still consider their fellow man?



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by LeatherNLace
 


Except that Peter wasn't the first Pope as he wasn't the "rock" on which Christ's church would be built. Therefore, since Peter isn't alive anymore, all papal decisions have nothing to do with what God wants or decides.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 

He was doing so good, up until he spouts of universalist nonsense.
I am suspicious of it.
Take his statement and replace "atheist" with Muslim and Jew, then it makes more sense, in trying to make a trinity religion.
If God accepts atheists, then logic will tell you that He also accepts the other religionists.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by LeatherNLace
 


The Pope has come out and said "even atheists are redeemed"...too late for a retraction.
He doesn't want to retract it, why should he? It's true. The spokesman is only trying to clear up the misunderstandings people are having.


One of the last sacred promises imparted to Peter, the first Pope, by the Son of God before He left was... "Whatever you hold true on earth I'll hold true in heaven". It's dogmatic law. The Catholic Church says it's so, God must adhere.
Do you believe that? If so, you're well on your way to being Catholic. I can put you in touch with the right people. Of course, if you're only mocking . . .


By the way, you're talking about the doctrine of Papal Infallibility. Francis hasn't promulgated anything infallibly yet. I mean, get serious. What if he's watching TV and says "The Cubbies are going to win this one?" Do you really think that's "Bound in Heaven?"



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





I think he means redemption is available to us all by Christ dying (past tense). There's also the language barrier.


Do you think the Pope just blurted his statement out, surprising even the Vatican? Do you think that the Vatican would leave it up to the press to interpret the Pontiff's speech in numerous languages?

I don't. I think his statement was pre-determined, pre-printed and the press were provided with pre-interpreted transcripts of his pre-written speech.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 


Looks like to me you are against everyone being given a chance. Why is that? Are you so bigoted to believe that your "kind" are the only ones worth saving?

Universalism is not a bad thing, thinking it is means you believe you are somehow better or more worthy than someone else.

How loving of you.
I guess Jesus really didn't mean to love everyone? Because that's as universal as it gets right there.

ETA: As another poster pointed out, Catholic literally means universal, so your argument is pretty much baseless.
edit on 24-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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FINALLY, we have a Pope who is correctly spreading the original altruistic message of Christianity.


I do not know how many people know this, but the word catholic means universal, as in meant for everyone.

To all those who want to go to hell, don't worry, Satan is still taking in more souls every day than he knows what to do with. The Pope's message is simply that even if you have no belief in God, but you are a still good person through your good deeds to fellow man, he believes that you can make it to heaven.

It's the Christian way of saying, 'despite our fundamental differences in belief, I think you're okay' and kudos to him for having the insight and courage to say it publicly.
edit on 24-5-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

Dear windword,

You're absolutely right. This was a speech to the Ambassadors of the world. He knew what he was going to say. So did the Press.

I must say I'm relieved that the Vatican doesn't seem to want to use teleprompters, I've had enough of that.


Remember, though, that Popes are a rare breed. If he believes that the Holy Spirit wants him to say something, he'll toss away his notes and let 'er rip.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Brother, everybody does get a chance, everybody has a chance. Not one person is born without inherent knowledge of God.

Universalism goes against the very tenant of Christianity. Christ is our redeemer, our rock, our SHELTER. What exactly do you think Jesus is sheltering us from with His sacrifice if everybody goes to heaven?

If everybody goes to heaven, then what is His sacrifice saving us from?

It's saving us from the Father's WRATH. That WRATH will come in the form of eternal punishment. ANYBODY who preaches universalism is slapping Christ in the face while He's hung on the cross.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 


Sure. I think Muslims are okay. I think Jews are okay. I think Buddhists are okay.

God doesn't think they're okay. God is a jealous, angry God. To deny His wrath is to deny a manifestation of His glory on this Earth. You really think LOVE is the only manifestation?



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Anyone else get a bad feeling this pope is gonna get himself shot one day?

:shk:



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 


So why did Jesus say to love everyone? That's a pretty universal statement if you ask me. I guess Jesus slapped himself in the face when he said that?


I don't think Jesus would be very happy if he came back and saw billions of people idolizing his torture and death. That's like celebrating thousands of troops dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, pretty heartless in my opinion.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Anyone else get a bad feeling this pope is gonna get himself shot one day?

:shk:


I'm glad you joined us
, but I don't want to star this comment.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


John 17:9. Jesus prays for His OWN people.

"I am praying for them, I am not praying for the world, but for those whom you have given me out of the world, and they are yours."

That's a love that He doesn't have for the world. Jesus is interceding in heaven for His believers. He applies his own blood to my sins, which is what He said He did for Peter, who DENIED Him.

"But I have prayed for thee (Peter), that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

Guess what? He didn't pray that for Judas. If He had, Judas would be in heaven.

And he isn't.
edit on 24-5-2013 by FollowTheWhiteRabbit because: (no reason given)



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