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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by windword
Dear windword,
You're definitely very near the tippy-top of posters, thanks. (And if you tell anybody I said "tippy-top," I'll come and steal your cookies.)
Consider Adam and Eve. I'm not advancing any opinion on whether there were just the two of them, etc. The point is that they were in a state where sin didn't even exist. They were given instructions and chose to disobey them, thereby sinning and getting evicted from Paradise for ever.
Jesus got us back to where we stand at the open door of Paradise and gives each of us a choice. Walk in, or follow evil and become Kings in our own territory outside of Heaven.
We're back into the jungle of words again. If it was just a symbolic sacrifice, "representing" something, I'd be a lot less impressed. But you're right, it isn't just for good people. He died for everybody, and specifically said He had come for the sinners.
I don't believe that the mythology of the symbolic sacrifice of Jesus was meant to represent redemption for only "good" people, but to elevate the very attributes that are allowed to persist throughout the future.
I'm a little confused by the words here. I'm not sure what a "holistic body of consciousness" is. I have to make do with the belief that He came to redeem me, you, every individual.
What good is the sacrifice of Jesus if he couldn't reach into the deepest perversions of humanity and redeem humanity as a holistic body of consciousness? After all, he is called the "Son of Man".
Try this. America was set free from the tyranny of the British. That's not a guarantee that we won't choose to submit to some other tyranny (representing going back into bondage to Satan). Here on ATS, many think we already have.
I'm confused here, but that happens a lot. I thought we were redeemed by Jesus, and got to heaven through love and faith. Good deeds are often a sign we have that faith...............
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by windword
He said meet us in goodness.
Hurray for Pope Francis to be the first Pope to declare the true Gospel message of the all-inclusive Christ.
Once again I'm forced to applaud this Pope for what he's doing and saying.
Thumbs up Francis.
As the Pope’s words made their way around the world, a Vatican spokesman (Rev. Thomas Rosica) had to do some damage control and remind everybody that atheists, in fact, are going to hell unless they accept Jesus
If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by windword
He said meet us in goodness.
Hurray for Pope Francis to be the first Pope to declare the true Gospel message of the all-inclusive Christ.
Once again I'm forced to applaud this Pope for what he's doing and saying.
Thumbs up Francis.
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good
I was getting much too symbolic, sorry. The door of paradise is the decision point. The place where we choose what we're going to do about God. If we want to be with Him, it's possible to walk in. If we don't want to be with God for eternity, we can walk away. In the end, every place that isn't with God is Hell. Adam and Eve stood at that door when they listend to the serpent in the Garden. They could, and did, choose. We've been wandering lost ever since. Jesus brought us back to where we do have a second chance to choose, the door of paradise again.
Either choose Jesus or choose evil? Where is the door of Paradise? When did Adam and Eve ever stand at that door, and how did Jesus bring us backI
I think it's pretty well established that there was a Jesus and that he was killed by crucifixion. Where we go from there, though, is where the questions come in. He existed, but did He do miracles? Is he God? There won't be 100% proof in this world, but I think there's enough evidence to make belief in Him, as a miracle working God, very acceptable.
Since I don't believe the story of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus to be true,
You more imaginative than I am. If I thought that was all there was to it, I'd chuck religion, too. But about your ideal of redemption. Do you think we redeem ourselves? Or do we need an outside "something?"
I can only compromise by accepting the story as mythical symbolism representing an ideal of redemption.
Absolutely agreed, but if somebody pushes me out of the path of a speeding car, I think I owe him some gratitude even though he succeeded without my belief.
Whatever Jesus accomplished in the story, is accomplished with out the need of my personal acknowledgement. His success can't be based on whether or not people believe the biblical story, but on the integrity of his actions. If he succeeded, he did so regardless of what people think or believe.
As I understand you on this issue, I think I'll have to disagree.
I mean the holistic spirit of mankind as a whole, and the idea that none are saved until all are saved. It's about humanity, not every man for himself.
Remember the verses? Love God, and your neighbor as yourself?
Love of what and faith in what?