Pope Francis: Even Atheists are Redeemed

reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth


And that's the exact reason they refuse to see it, because if the biggest and THE original church is corrupt, then they would have to consider most all of them being corrupt as well.

reply to post by slugger9787


What if I believe in him, just not in the traditional Christian sense? Do I have to believe in a certain "mainstream" way to get to heaven?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


ask God that question, sincerely, in prayer.

you will receive the answer you seek.


www.proofthatgodexists.org...

www.proofthatgodexists.org...

reply to post by slugger9787


I have a feeling the only answer I will get is from myself.

How would god answer? With a voice inside my head? A sign? With nothing? How can I be sure it's not Satan trying to deceive me?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Satan doesn't exist... Simple enough...

reply to post by Akragon


While I agree that a guy with red skin carrying around a pitchfork doesn't exist, I do believe that ego/greed/lust/envy/etc. definitely do exist.

What's your take on Jesus calling Peter Satan? Do you think Satan is just the darker side of human nature? (That's what I believe)

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

While I agree that a guy with red skin carrying around a pitchfork doesn't exist, I do believe that ego/greed/lust/envy/etc. definitely do exist.

What's your take on Jesus calling Peter Satan? Do you think Satan is just the darker side of human nature? (That's what I believe)

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

He thought of the flesh not the spirit... Peter wouldn't believe that Jesus was going to be executed because he didn't want his master to leave them...

Jesus already knew what was going to happen to him... and that it was his Father will that he die...

He called him Satan because Satan represents the will of the flesh, the selfish nature of our species...

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Gee! Try Genesis and the story of Noah, the after the landing verses. God repents to man for murder. Proclaims that grows and walks the Earth is for man's use. The Hebrew faith calls everyone a Child of Noah. The Jews and Muslims are children of Abraham, as are Christians. The Children of Noah are saved by virtue of the promises made to Noah and his sons. In Israeli there is an Avenue of the Righteous in Tel Aviv, trees are planted there in remembrance of those individuals, who are considered the Righteous Among the Nations, Children of Noah.
So, Pope Francis acknowledges the Children of Noah as being saved as promised by God, as part of his repentance.
A lot of Dogmatic individuals don't like those verses after the Ark lands, except for the rainbow. God makes no demands or orders commandments, except the establishment of courts of justice.
Then, I have little use of the Old Testament after Genesis, and only the first three books of the New Testament. The rest were written by Paul or disciples of Paul. I will make no excuses, should there be a judgement, that I was doing what someone said was correct. If I did it, I did it as I understood the correct way to go, not because I let someone else tell me how to be a good person.

reply to post by Akragon


I agree to a point, but I don't think Peter ever thought of Jesus as his "master", only as someone to use as a footstool to gain his own following. He achieved it too, by founding the church.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

I agree to a point, but I don't think Peter ever thought of Jesus as his "master", only as someone to use as a footstool to gain his own following. He achieved it too, by founding the church.

I don't know about that one...

Peters prominence came well after he learned from Jesus... before that he was just a fisherman...

And a doubter...

reply to post by Akragon


He did end up agreeing with everything that Paul wrote about, so he couldn't have been that great of a guy in my opinion.

I don't think he ever meant to die along with Jesus as he said he would, which is why he denied him three times. I think there was some ulterior motive with his involvement, even if he didn't realize/decide it until after meeting Jesus.

ETA: Oh, and he ended up sitting with Roman soldiers at the trial.

reply to post by slugger9787


Okay, so I went to the site you posted and went through the steps. I came to the step where it asked whether logic is relative or universal, I picked relative.

After I clicked relative it gave me the same question, but gave two of the same answers to choose from, that either logic is universal or logic is universal. How is that fair? Why do they give me a choice of relative logic if they're just going to renege on it?

Once I chose universal (since I had no choice), it started quoting bible verses, Paul to be exact. I don't think your site is any kind of authority on whether god exists or not.

ETA: I just retried the steps from the beginning. It seems like if the questionnaire doesn't agree with your answer, it just boots you back to the first step. What a joke.

reply to post by Brandyjack


I had to go back and look at the story again, to see what you were talking about. Thanks for making me look. I like this part.

3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. 4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

Animals will be asked to account on judgement day? Will they be defending their actions, or testifying on ours?

Originally posted by Malynn
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Indeed. Honestly I think that may be my number one pet peeve with Christianity. I have many but that one sticks out the most. Jesus was pretty damn clear about Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged, Turn The Other Cheek, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven, etc. Yet for whatever reason all the christians I know and many I don't seem to spend a good deal of their lives judging other people and looking down their noses at them. I'm pretty sure if Jesus actually existed and was around to be horrified by the religion created in his name he'd add "Truly I tell you, it would be hard for a Christian to enter the Kingdom of Heaven".

While I agree with yourbsentiment and can definitely see where it comes from, I don't think Jesus would be horrified by the religion, I think he would be disappointed that so many people "don't get it" who think they do. I have only ever known a couple of people like you're referring to, but that is because I don't really let small minded fools get close to me. Almost every single religious person I know is completely the opposite of those looking-down-nose types you speak of. In fact, I tend to think they are fairly rare in general, though the stereotype portrayed is that most/all are that way.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by windword

 

He said meet us in goodness.

Hurray for Pope Francis to be the first Pope to declare the true Gospel message of the all-inclusive Christ.

Once again I'm forced to applaud this Pope for what he's doing and saying.

Thumbs up Francis.

Are you familiar with Carlton Pearson, who was kicked out of Oral Robert's ministries for preaching "The Gospel of Inclusion?"

That's funny, and sad, and probably not in alignment with what Jesus intended..

And according to Carlton, in his revelation from God, that's precisely the case.

Part Two

God how I loved that little documentary on Carlton Pearson's triumphant ending, which is really the new beginning for Christianity.

He's got the right message.

reply to post by windword


Cries of help from the dying church! Hoping dilution of the doctrine will help people flock to church.

Just read yesterday that the number of 'practicing' Catholics has fallen to just 1.9 million in France.

The most of Western Europe now counts itself as 'atheists' or just does not care about religion anymore.

The numbers must be somewhat better in the Americas, but not much better.

reply to post by windword


in no way does the catholic church and more specifically, the pope, represent the lessons of Christianity and more specifically, jesus. they are hypocrites, fear mongers, pedophiles, and simply greedy old men. If you give your soul over to them then, well idk what to say, its no longer your soul.

This is a brilliant move.

The dialogue between Christians and atheists has reached stalemate, and the Church is looking for a way to reopen that and maybe bring a few souls into the fold. Atheists often state a desire for morality and kindness without religious trappings-no deity, no church, just people being cool to each other. So the Pope is saying, "Okay! Go with that!" But he has an ace up his sleeve, and it's called "human nature."

The Pope knows that no matter how hard they try, people can never be perfect. This won't matter to some, who will point to whatever good that they do and proclaim it "enough." But there will be those who may perhaps begin to question themselves: "Who am I to say it is good enough, when it is I who benefits if it is inadequate? Isn't that a bit like the fox guarding the chicken coop?" There may be others who will be frustrated by their own hypocrisy-they may do some deeds of charity, but find it hard to show love on a personal level to enemies. They may get burned out by showing compassion and getting nothing back for it. And there will be those who cannot seem to wash the stain of their guilt away when they fail.

In this way, the Pope's dictum functions in the same way as the Law-it serves to drive people to Christ. The Old Covenant is the relentless taskmaster whose insistence on perfection puts us in bondage and causes us to seek freedom in the New Covenant. The Pope's allowance for atheists is the new taskmaster.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by TheGreazel

 

Yeah.... that was sarcasm. I know it's hard to see over the internet, but looking at my posts within this thread before that would have cleared it up for you.

I'm far from being a fanatic, much less religious, but I do agree with your post about those types of people.

oke , then i own you a honest apology , I just get so frustrated about reading about how Atheist or non religous people are considered collateral damage.

Although i am not religious , i honestly believe any person has the right to follow his or her religion , but this has to come with mutual respect and granting others the right to live and belief wich or what they want , as long as it is in a peacefull matter.

Because doesnt God wants to see his children living in peace together learning from each other , and together overcome all the earthly problems that are tormenting his flock ?

I again apologise for targetting you specific , my rational thinking got replaced with anger and became deconstructive for the Discussion.

TheGreazel.

Originally posted by Snsoc
This is a brilliant move.

The dialogue between Christians and atheists has reached stalemate, and the Church is looking for a way to reopen that and maybe bring a few souls into the fold. Atheists often state a desire for morality and kindness without religious trappings-no deity, no church, just people being cool to each other. So the Pope is saying, "Okay! Go with that!" But he has an ace up his sleeve, and it's called "human nature."

The Pope knows that no matter how hard they try, people can never be perfect. This won't matter to some, who will point to whatever good that they do and proclaim it "enough." But there will be those who may perhaps begin to question themselves: "Who am I to say it is good enough, when it is I who benefits if it is inadequate? Isn't that a bit like the fox guarding the chicken coop?" There may be others who will be frustrated by their own hypocrisy-they may do some deeds of charity, but find it hard to show love on a personal level to enemies. They may get burned out by showing compassion and getting nothing back for it. And there will be those who cannot seem to wash the stain of their guilt away when they fail.

In this way, the Pope's dictum functions in the same way as the Law-it serves to drive people to Christ. The Old Covenant is the relentless taskmaster whose insistence on perfection puts us in bondage and causes us to seek freedom in the New Covenant. The Pope's allowance for atheists is the new taskmaster.

Inno, I think it has to do with the Revelation of Peter becoming more common. Once it was totally hidden(only the Vatican probably knew about it), but through a few lucky digs much more is known now.