William Cooper? Fact Or Fiction ??

Anyone ever try to debunk this guy? I wasnt able to get anything out of a google.

On a side note: give me your opinion on him

[edit on 6-11-2004 by John bull 1]

Bill Cooper's story is a long and complicated one. I really couldn't give you an answer either way. Some people say he was full of #, others say he really knew what he was talking about. I suggest you research and come to your own conclusions on the matter.

Cooper was a very interesting man whether he was a kook or not. I read Behold a Pale Horse some years ago and there is some pretty fantastic stuff in it. He ran THIS SITE until his death in 2001 and it is still being updated by his people so there are lots of archived articles by Cooper still there. It's an interesting read but the paranoia can be a bit overwhelming at times.

Originally posted by RR
Cooper was a very interesting man whether he was a kook or not. I read Behold a Pale Horse some years ago and there is some pretty fantastic stuff in it. He ran THIS SITE until his death in 2001 and it is still being updated by his people so there are lots of archived articles by Cooper still there. It's an interesting read but the paranoia can be a bit overwhelming at times.

I bought his book a while ago and I still haven't taken the time to read it being so busy and all. And I agree that the paranoia is a bit overwhelming but hey if you're on ATS I think anyone can handle it. The website is pretty good and I've read a lot of the stuff on there.

Well, all I can offer is an opinion. I've been pouring over the man's website, and I have to say that he seems a bit whacky. He believed that he could see some massive conspiracy in everything that he laid eyes upon. His whole corporate symbolism thing reminds me of either a long term methamphetamine user or a paranoid schizophrenic. He also seemed obsessed with the idea that Luciferian philosophy lies at the heart of this vast conspiracy.

Personally, I have been drawn to (my own personal adaptation of) this philosophy over the past 6-8 years, and I'm certainly not unique in this. The metaphors involving the Garden of Eden, the Serpent, Lucifer, the war amongst angels and many others take on different meanings when you read the actual texts as opposed to listening to a priest or minister's personal interpretation. Some of these metaphors seem so obvious that I find it very difficult to believe that the vast majority of Christians miss the true meanings altogether. For example, original sin is little more than knowledge... intelligence. Twelve years in Catholic school provided a great education at the expense of my "faith".

Before I get too far off topic... Cooper makes it sound as though all people who embrace this philosophy (to achieve some level of divinity through knowledge and understanding) are evil, and are cooperating in some vast conspiracy to achieve this divinity by means of... enslaving humanity? He obviously doesn't get it. The Luciferian philosophy as well as those of Wicca do not differ much from that of Buddhism, all of which have played major roles in the New Age movement. The goal is "Illumination" or in Buddhist terminology "Enlightenment".

I'll admit that many corporate symbols may have been influenced by their personal beliefs, philosophies, or even interests, but in no way does that suggest some massive conspiracy. Every day I see user names and avatars that are influenced by the same symbols and metaphors. Does that mean that these members are "in" on the conspiracy? Alone, that aspect of Cooper's paranoia almost completely discredits him in my eyes, but that of course is just and opinion. I'll end this rant with that statement

[edit on 7-11-2004 by veritas93]

he was a disinfo agent who was about to go whistlblower(my opinion). but, now he's a martyr!
the people doing the legacy site are doing great stuff, from my first glance. so, the memes that he supported, attracted many good minds, and now they are involved in the propogation of more earthly, provable memes and patterns. he was just like obi-wan, more powerful dead than alive. this is what protects the alex joneses and sheman skolnicks, now. evil knows, it's better to marginalize than make a martyr.

Bill was killed by the Apache County Sherrifs Department during a raid on his home in November of 2001. He is now buried on a hill in Eagar, Arizona. We will be updating this page with more current information shortly

does anyone know how and why he died and why his home was being raided?

he was just like obi-wan, more powerful dead than alive.

ha,i like that comparrison billy bob,was watching the original Star wars the other night!

Bill was killed by the Apache County Sherrifs Department during a raid on his home in November of 2001. He is now buried on a hill in Eagar, Arizona. We will be updating this page with more current information shortly

Well, that confirms it. Probably methamphetamines.
That would certainly explain the paranoia. I'm all for conspiracies, but Cooper doesn't seem like the type who would pose a real threat to any "global plan". He's too easy to discredit. Hell, he does most of that himself.

Originally posted by veritas93
Well, that confirms it. Probably methamphetamines.

That would certainly explain the paranoia. I'm all for conspiracies, but Cooper doesn't seem like the type who would pose a real threat to any "global plan". He's too easy to discredit. Hell, he does most of that himself.

november 2001. couldn't be related to whistleblowing 911 insider knowledge and the cabal, huh? has to be methamphetamines. wow, he was kooky. so was that other guy 'they' assassinated: phil shneider. in a videotaped canference he gave, phil said the feds did the 1993 WTC bombing. he had a bullet hole in his shoulder and had survived by killing the guy who plugged him. he went to the agency to report the man dead, and they just said, 'these things happen', and let him walk away. he was shot to death the week after the conference.

if william cooper was obi wan, phil shneider was jesus. that's was one AWESOME speech he gave. very convincing. get the video, if you can find it.

Originally posted by optimus fett
does anyone know how and why he died and why his home was being raided?

Here's a report on the shootings taken from THIS SITE:

According to the Sheriff's report, several deputies were
positioned outside the Cooper residence to serve a warrant for
Aggravated Assault and two counts of endangerment. Cooper had
stated numerous times in the past that he would not surrender to
law enforcement via his website and shortwave radio. Obviously,
law enforcement took him seriously. The showdown began at
approximately 12:15 pm local time.

After leaving his residence in his vehicle, the report states
that Cooper confronted plain clothed deputies a short distance
away. "As Cooper drove back to his residence, deputies attempted
to stop him using a fully marked patrol vehicle to block the
driveway. Cooper refused to stop or comply with verbal orders by
the deputies", according to the report.

Cooper then drove around the patrol car to evade the arrest, and
the report stated that he tried to run over one of the deputies
en route back to his residence. Cooper was then followed a short
distance to his residence where this time he was confronted by
uniformed deputies. "After refusing once again to comply with
the deputies orders, Cooper exited his vehicle and began running
toward the house, firing shots with a handgun toward the
deputies", the report said. No where in the report did it
mention that Cooper only had one leg - the other lost in combat
long ago. Cooper died on the scene.

When Deputy Martinez took a head shot, officers returned fire,
the report said. According to the Sheriff's office, "the surgery
on Martinez went well" , but the condition is still critical.
There was a positive history written up about Martinez in the
report, but nothing positive about Cooper, of course.

Cooper had made it known that he would take action against law
enforcement from years back stating, "trespassers will be shot
on discovery." He also denied violating any laws during that
period as well. Cooper has a history of harassing and
threatening local residents with deadly force, according to the
report. He was recently charge with aggravated assault and
endangerment, as well as wanted by the U.S. Marshall's Service
on unrelated felony charges. Cooper had spent the last month
challenging the government's claims about what caused the
destruction of the World Trade Center on September 11.

Most who knew of Cooper all state that he was a hard man to get
along with - if at all. His demeanor and attitude was
"unfriendly" at best. Although state-sponsored media called
Cooper a "national militia leader", no one has yet to come
forward who was under his command, nor has anyone to this point
come forward to claim his 'militia rank'. None of those who knew
Cooper and spoke to Sierra Times wanted to go on the record, but
the best statement was, "he was a son-of a bitch, but he was our
son-of-a bitch". The new Patriot Act of 2001 has many wondering
if the Cooper take down was just the beginning in silencing the
voices on opposition in the Country. "Are they just starting in
alphabetical order?" one person asked. Cooper was best known for
being the first to provide evidence of explosives being found
inside the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995,
including the type of explosive used.

According to his webmaster, "It appears at this time to be
totally unrelated to the disputes he had with the federal
government." There were no federal agents involved with the
gunfight.



[edit on 6-11-2004 by RR]

Originally posted by billybob

in a videotaped canference he gave, phil said the feds did the 1993 WTC bombing.

well, they didnt actually do it - they just provided the explosives for it (as the original plan was to use a harmless powder). the iraqi guy who was in on it got suspicious of this and started taping his coversations with his fbi handler. this all came out in court but seems to have been conveniently forgotten since 911.

Originally posted by billybob

november 2001. couldn't be related to whistleblowing 911 insider knowledge and the cabal, huh? has to be methamphetamines. wow, he was kooky. so was that other guy 'they' assassinated: phil shneider. in a videotaped canference he gave, phil said the feds did the 1993 WTC bombing. he had a bullet hole in his shoulder and had survived by killing the guy who plugged him. he went to the agency to report the man dead, and they just said, 'these things happen', and let him walk away. he was shot to death the week after the conference.

Come on now. I've been to two different lectures at the local university on the topic of 9/11 being an inside job... neither lecturer turned up dead as far as I know. A number of books and documentaries have also been released on the same topic. Once again, most are going on about their paranoid little lives without so much as a scratch. Everyday on websites across the world, people discuss this very same worn out issue. I personally believe that 9/11 WAS at least partially an inside job, but just because some whack job has a psychotic episode and gets himself killed doesn't mean that he was "in the know". And your constant comparison of these guys to Obi wan and Jesus doesn't help your arguement (although you're probably kidding... kind of).

Originally posted by veritas93
. Once again, most are going on about their paranoid little lives without so much as a scratch. Everyday on websites across the world, people discuss this very same worn out issue. I personally believe that 9/11 WAS at least partially an inside job, but just because some whack job has a psychotic episode and gets himself killed doesn't mean that he was "in the know". And your constant comparison of these guys to Obi wan and Jesus doesn't help your arguement (although you're probably kidding... kind of).

like i said, better to marginilise than actually kill. it only takes two words to destroy the most intense research for the majority of people. 'conspiracy theory'. the controllers may be 'evil', but they sure know how to to steer the masses of sheeple.

if somebody gets really close to the truth, we can say, 'take your meds', and that person has been neutralised.
if theyy actually have photoigraphic evidence, we can say, 'photoshop'.
if it's video, 'CGI(computer generated graphics)'.
if we discover a secret society, it's just a 'social club".

if they have signed documents and irrefutable evidence of other sorts, ....ouch in the back of the head.

of course i'm kidding about obi wan and jesus. i'm obiwan jesus, so they can't be too.

First, I'm not sure that it's very difficult to steer the masses of "sheople". Most are born to follow, as we (like all mammals) have a strict hierarchal system of authority written right into our genes. I don't think that you necessarily need to be all that bright to get a large number of people to follow you nor do I think a vast conspiracy is necessary. For example, look at the (mostly corrupt) religious leaders and organizations around the world.

Second, I guess that this all depends on how you view the world. I suppose if you want to see conspiracy in everything, you can. Everything is relative to the observer right? I'm not sure that there is any such thing as the "truth". Hundreds if not thousands of generations of philosophers would support that concept.

Most photographic "evidence" that I've seen HAS been photoshopped or is simply misunderstood, and I have friends that can make some damn convincing CGIs. There have always been "secret societies" but most are little more than fraternities for bored middle-aged men. People with great power have probably always had fantasies of global domination, but I doubt that this has anything to do with the occult. Greed and hunger for power are parts of human nature and not reserved only to one belief system or another. As for the "documents"... a number of them have been successfully and logically exposed as hoaxes. Many of those responsible for these hoaxes are in it only for financial gain and/or to develope some sense of self worth (or basically feed their own personal fantasies).

Don't get me wrong, I do think that cover-ups and small scale conspiracies happen all of the time. I think that most "UFOs" are man-made craft, and that we probably possess technology that most would consider to be far beyond our capabilities. I'm even open to the idea that we may be visited by ETs every now and then. Hell, I've even seen a couple of things that were far beyond my explanation. Notice that not once have I used the word "believe". I would honestly LOVE to believe... but I have yet to see any undeniable evidence of a massive global conspiracy to enslave mankind... at least nothing beyond the average workings of politics. If there was such a conspiracy, then I can't imagine that they'd bother killing anyone only because like you said, they'd create a martyr of sorts and confirm many of people's suspicions. Otherwise, a conspiracy of such a massive scale would be IMPOSSIBLE to contain. If it existed, there would be undeniable evidence everywhere and people like myself wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Regardless, before I let this rant get too far out of control... I just want to reiterate that my posts were not meant to dismiss all conspiracy theories. Hell, I spend a fair amount of time on a conspiracy website for the same reasons that most of you do. My only intention was to share my opinion of Bill Cooper, which is that he was either taking advantage of people with clever fiction or that he was just a little "eccentric". I also stated the reasons why I feel this way. Many of his theories are typical of clinical paranoia whether it's caused by substance abuse or simple chemical imbalance or possibly even past psychological trauma... errr I mean brain washing by the CIA It doesn't take extensive efforts by secret societies to make him appear this way. I could draw that conclusion through little more than a review of HIS publications. There are a number of professionals in the world that present far more logical and "sane" approaches to these subjects.

Steering back to the original topic...

I read "Behold a Pale Horse" and thought a lot of it quite interesting and believable, but there were credibility hits with the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (an obviously faked bit of hate propaganda) and a few other things I can't recall at the moment. When I got online years later, I read a bit more about how W.C. started believing anything about aliens & such to be true ... even material that was supposed to be fictional (as asserted by John Lear, I believe). I then read Mr. Cooper's site and felt that he'd really gone 'round the bend in later years. Have you seen his analysis of "Star Wars"? It's nuts!

Originally posted by Hecate100
Steering back to the original topic...

By what you've stated here... I'm not sure that we ever got off topic .

I read "Behold a Pale Horse" and thought a lot of it quite interesting and believable, but there were credibility hits with the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (an obviously faked bit of hate propaganda) and a few other things I can't recall at the moment. When I got online years later, I read a bit more about how W.C. started believing anything about aliens & such to be true ... even material that was supposed to be fictional (as asserted by John Lear, I believe). I then read Mr. Cooper's site and felt that he'd really gone 'round the bend in later years. Have you seen his analysis of "Star Wars"? It's nuts!

This is basically the opinion that I've stated in my prior posts. I really don't like to insult anyone who hasn't directly insulted me (like Bill Cooper) but... I think that saying "he'd really gone 'round the bend..." is being a bit too lenient

Cooper definitely suffered from some sort of mental illness(es), but exactly what will probably never be known.

His was an intriguing blend of interesting theories and obvious delusions. As another member has mentioned, his analysis of Star Wars symbolism is something of a conspiracy theory classic. Sort of a miniature Illuminatus Trilogy with lightsabers.

Alas, the final lesson Mr. Cooper learned in life was the inadvisability of pulling out an AK-47 when your front yard is full of cops. Naturally, for his devoted followers, it was a "takedown". For his neighbors, it was more like the inevitable end for a guy that was stark raving insane.

What makes reading Cooper fun is that there is truth mixed in with his fiction. What makes it difficult is trying to figure out which is which.

Originally posted by Majic
Alas, the final lesson Mr. Cooper learned in life was the inadvisability of pulling out an AK-47 when your front yard is full of cops. Naturally, for his devoted followers, it was a "takedown". For his neighbors, it was more like the inevitable end for a guy that was stark raving insane.

That has to be the funniest thing that I've read all day.

What makes reading Cooper fun is that there is truth mixed in with his fiction. What makes it difficult is trying to figure out which is which.

Most who suffer mental illness of this sort tend to be highly perseptive people with fairly high IQs. It's a shame that their delusions often water down what insight they actually DO provide.

Originally posted by veritas93

By what you've stated here... I'm not sure that we ever got off topic

.

I was kidding.

This is basically the opinion that I've stated in my prior posts. I really don't like to insult anyone who hasn't directly insulted me (like Bill Cooper) but... I think that saying "he'd really gone 'round the bend..." is being a bit too lenient

I'm inclined to agree with you. While I admired him to some extent for standing up and saying what he believes, I know for a fact that large chunks of his material were waaaaaaay off the mark. As an example, he claimed that Wicca and paganism were key parts of an organized NWO plot. Well, as a pagan and Witch with almost 20 years' experience in the pagan community, to say that we're organized to overthrow anything is a hearty laugh at best. In fact, it's a common saying that "organizing pagans is like herding cats." And the allegations of us worshipping Satan are ludicrous since Satan is part of the Christian pantheon and has no existence in paganism. W.C. chose to see anything related to the occult as being part of some grand Satanic conspiracy that just isn't there. If it wasn't Christian, then it was NWO. He had no middle ground.

The "no middle ground" is what made me dig a bit deeper into his material. If something agreed with W.C.'s worldview, then it had to be fact, even if it was an obvious work of fiction like the "Protocols". I have to say it was quite disappointing to me, as some of the material in "Behold A Pale Horse" had given me hope that he'd pursue the E.T. angle and look for more concrete proof.

I've talked to other people who admired "Pale Horse" and they've come to the same conclusion as I -- that W.C. lost the ability of discernment and stopped taking things with a grain of salt. After that, it was all downhill. Sadly so. Nor were we surprised when he was killed, as his documented behavior before and during the incident towards law enforcement was not conducive to self-preservation.

Originally posted by Hecate100
...he claimed that Wicca and paganism were key parts of an organized NWO plot. Well, as a pagan and Witch with almost 20 years' experience in the pagan community, to say that we're organized to overthrow anything is a hearty laugh at best. In fact, it's a common saying that "organizing pagans is like herding cats." And the allegations of us worshipping Satan are ludicrous since Satan is part of the Christian pantheon and has no existence in paganism. W.C. chose to see anything related to the occult as being part of some grand Satanic conspiracy that just isn't there. If it wasn't Christian, then it was NWO.

He is certainly not alone in this opinion. I cannot understand why so many people feel threatened by beliefs and philosophies that differ from their own. As you have stated here and as I stated in my first post... Cooper obviously had no real understanding of the occult movements.

W.C. lost the ability of discernment and stopped taking things with a grain of salt. After that, it was all downhill.

Sadly, this is the case with most who share his type of illness. These disorders tend to be progressive if there is no grounding intervention. If anything, it seems as though there were masses of people willing to help feed these delusions of his.