Police swoop on the homeless taking sleeping bags and food parcels in co-ordinated raids in Redbridg

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

This Country is full, so I'd hope that the gates will be closed soon.

Your country-empire invaded so many countries for centuries, karma is a b1tch.

Karma applies to individuals - not countries.

This is a really sad story, and a predictable by-product of people dehumanising the homeless.

The whole "Well, they're all lazy / drug addicts / undeserving foreigners" is BS. The complete lack of compassion and empathy shown on some of the posts on this thread is disturbing.

Of course there will be a small minority who manipulate people's goodwill and charity. But if you automatically assume that any homeless person is homeless by choice and trying to scam you out of your hard earned cash... I pity you for your cynicism.

I've no doubt some will be quick to label me a sucker, but for what it's worth, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt - so yes, if I see a homeless person and I have some spare change, I will give it to them.

You can accuse me of perpetuating the problem all you like, but I'd rather unwittingly give a con artist money than deny someone genuinely in need.

reply to post by CuriousAchilles



So what's your opinion on the influx of Romanians using violence to displace genuine Big Issue sellers, whilst also claiming benefits etc..this is not just one or two, it's an ever increasing problem

reply to post by destination now


To be honest, I had never heard anything about that until I read this thread. I don't feel I know enough about that specific issue to make an informed comment.

But to get back to the point that the OP was trying to highlight: police stealing these people's belongings is wrong. There are no two ways about it. It doesn't matter what your political views are, going to a group of homeless people and taking their stuff is unacceptable. How would you feel if the police approached you and just took your wallet, or your phone? If you wouldn't accept it being done to you, why should these people?

reply to post by destination now


The same thing happened in my city in Northern Ireland. I think it was roughly two years ago, same story, a group of Romanians just appeared one day, mothers with children in tow selling the big issue, others selling roses on weekend nights, then there was reports of people seeing them get into bmw people carriers and it came out that it was some sort of scam and that they were doing the rounds around the UK, they didnt stay here very long, maybe a few months, I dont know if it was the police or the dissident republicans that moved them on, or maybe they just decided to leave.

It does'nt change the fact that there is genuinely homeless people out there that need help, and that the police should not steal what little they have.

reply to post by Rocker2013

You just proposed allowing slums to be built in the UK.

I'm not attacking you for that opinion, but this is what you have suggested. Within a decade that land would be covered in tin houses, tarpaulin roofs and open sewers.

We're supposed to be moving forward as a society, not moving backwards.

The future for the UK and most of the West is going to be in many respects very similar to the past. It is inevitable in a market economy. There are not enough resources in the world to sustain the economic growth of the past. As some parts (mostly outside the West) continue to grow, the others will necessarily contract. The sooner everyone recognises that, the less painful the transition will be.

What we really need is for all the shops, restaurants and bars in cities that own entire buildings to be FORCED to develop the upper floors into affordable housing.

A sure way to force all those businesses to close.

We have a homeless problem in every major city and town in the UK, but we also have a problem with building management and companies letting historic buildings crumble and lay empty because of their own greed and selfishness.

Allowing buildings to rot and crumble doesn't serve anybody's greed and selfishness. However if the expected return on investment for the upkeep or new building is not justified by business calculations (greed and selfishness) it won't be attempted. Greed and selfishness are exactly what are expected to motivate private businesses. Perhaps the UK should become a socialist state (in the Marxist sense) and wealth/poverty can be distributed as per some predefined criteria that are not motivated by greed and selfishness?

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
Homeless people and bums (there is a difference IMO) are a real problem for society. This isn't a wide open mountain side where folks can chose to set up camp and make it home.

People spend a lot of time, money and effort to make their towns and cities a nice place to live so you can't blame citizens for not wanting them around messing it all up. They are dirty and live dirty. The beg for money and get it through soft extortion and badgering. They often are criminals and drug addicts. I don't want them around my house, kid's school or anywhere I might be going for walk quite frankly. It's we the citizens who complain to the officials which police answer to and eventually are ordered to use strong tactics to get these "undesirables" to move on.

But we all recognize that these people are humans too and deserve some compassion. I don't want anyone to be cold and hungry. But I truly believe most homeless people have zero desire to really work for a better life. I see them every day on every corner, pathetically limping and begging for money until the light turns green and the cars start moving...then they shout to their buddy on the other side of the street asking how much they got, counting their wads. This one "Homeless pregnant mother" (according to her sign) has been with child for three years now.

So, is there an answer? I don't know

Maybe the answer is to have a bit of compassion! I hope if you ever become homeless that you don't have to
find out how little compassion most people have today! No wonder our society is on the verge of economic
collapse! We are so quick to yell jump to the sick depraved individuals hovering on a ledge with no hope!

Just plain sick.. But you wouldn't want to know what police really do sometimes

Just like in Carpenters They Live.

Originally posted by stirling
You Brits are pretty Goddamn cold arent you?
No wonder your race is dying out.......

edit on 24-5-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)

You meant "Thank God", right?

The single most aggressive nation ever conceived. Great Britain. Scourge of the Earth.

When the POLICE steal from the homeless, their reaction is to say, "Well, you better have a back-up plan. That's just how it is."

If the shoe fits, wear it. But I think we need to deal with the criminality of their systems of so-called "authority" (which infect the entire planet, so we have them here in the US as well) before stealing sleeping bags and food from cold homeless people.

Originally posted by thoiter

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

This Country is full, so I'd hope that the gates will be closed soon.

Your country-empire invaded so many countries for centuries, karma is a b1tch.

Karma applies to individuals - not countries.

That's what Rome thought. And the Austro-Hungarian empire. And the Ottoman Empire. And the United States (believe me, we've already been destroyed). And Japan (See what slaughtering dolphins will get you). And Canada (they are next up for their abuse of indigenous people).

Taking food and warm sleeping bags from the homeless - Sounds more like a cruel and assinine activities of preteen bullies, not officers of the law!
Taking the very basic necessities from these people - food and shelter (in the form of a sleeping bag) - is outright theft and the officers and higher ups that ordered this action shoud be treated as the criminals they absolutely are!

Even if you somehow could distance yourself from the emotional aspect, it still lacks any logic. If they are claiming they are worried about crime - who is more likely to commit a crime, someone with food and a warm sleeping bag or someone who has just has these things taken away and is now desperate for the necessities to survive?

As such, it would seem to me to be a sadistic attempt at provoking exactly such a response from these people - so that even more drastic and despicable actions can be carried out against these people, but now with the support of more of the public behind them - this is what I'm uncomfortably envisioning as their motivation for otherwise bewildering actions: "These worthless vagrants are thieves and have no respect for the property of others, and are now stealing food and blankets," etc etc etc. All the while leaving out that the police stole THEIR property to start with necessitating such actions just to survive. I could hardly blame them. If the police showed up and took my things, and left me with nothing, and I had no one to turn to (a situation these people are quite obviously in) then the options suddenly become few and pressing. And if the officers that are supposed to uphold order and justice have now turned to thievery and a complete lack of compassion, then WTF do they think people who are already on the fringe of society are going to do and view the rest of humanity?

And before you answer that, especially those painting the broad strokes of "they are all drug addicts and lazy bums" - realize that just because someone wears a suit and "isn't breaking any laws" (though in many instances it later comes out they absolutely were), does not mean what they do is *right* from any moral, ethical, or basic dignity for fellow man point of view. Certainly there are bad apples in every group, but saying all homeless people are thieves or drug addicts is still missing the point that what we should be asking is how can we help a fellow living being and address the issues that led to these unfortunate and nightmarish situations in the first place. But for many supposed civilized people, its just far easier to write them off as worthless or too much of a challenge.

Our society is too often far more concerned with how much money you will be paid to do something rather than how much you have helped others and the benefit to humanity and happiness over all. Sadly, many who read this will automatically roll their eyes that I'm some sort of tree hugging freak and don't get it, whilst perfectly secure in the unquestionable reality that material items, wealth and scenic streets unspoiled by the troubling reality of people in need of varying degrees of assistance. And I'm not saying I'm a saint or even completely free of such prejudices, but rather realizing there are some real problems her that we all need to think thru for some real and positive/effective solutions.

And whatever those solutions turn out to be, I'm fairly certain they won't involve taking food and a sleeping bags from homeless people.

Originally posted by tinyDAWK




Sometimes all you need is someone to help you up. And I doubt you are ever that "guy" imo

As I said before, you have NO IDEA what I've been through in my Life.... if I was to tell my story, you would probably cry!

The reason they are doing this is to "encourage" them to leave.

No food, no "bed" they are hoping the homeless will leave the area. Now I am not exactly supporting this type of behavior, but usually when you are a large homeless population you will have more crime, more drug use.

reply to post by destination now


Thankyou DESTINATION NOW for popping into this Thread and backing me up with your post!

Some people on ATS don't get it and start jumping to conclusions about you/me before they even know what I am about or who I am..... its sad but it happens.

Also, many do not understand what I write, I think this is where the Americans and British differ....

I know this sounds cold, but meh.....

You do not deserve food
You do not deserve a place to stay
You do not deserve free healthcare



The very fact that some countries try to provide this to everyone is the reason why we are in financial trouble.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


You have turned this into an issue about immigration which it is not, there have for a great many year's even prior to the open borders policy been a great number of homeless, not all drug takers though all eventually suffer mental health problem's and this has been the case since the tory scummy idea of selling off our social housing and promoting private landlord's,
(for the American's a little explanation - following the second world war though on the winning side we were devastated with a great many houses bombed out and we had to provide a method of providing housing for the many returning soldiers and homeless family's so under our system of government our local authority's called councils were ordered to build large modern housing estates and a plan was put into place to ensure this would maintain pace with our population - private housing could be purchased at then reasonable rates if someone wished to step up and leave the social housing system they then could via Barret and Wimpey to name a few once great British house builders but in the 1980's Mrs T stopped this system and as well as an increasing home grown homeless population we then had new labour run by a Tony Blaire whom was a junior tory party member and a staunch Thatcherite that left the tory party and joined the labour party when the funding for labour started to come from corporate interests following the reduced amount the TUC was able to provide with falling union membership, he was not the only tory to do this as it was seen as a great political opportunity since they now owned the labour party and had since Mr's T smashed the union's and broke there back's and power as the Tory party is not a party of the people but of the corporations as is new labour),
I am politically biased over this issue as these people are human being's not dog's and I would not see a dog treated in this manner. I do agree that there are far too many foreigners in the country but that is down solely to the government we have had over the past 30 years and before you kid yourself new labour were actually a tory left wing party that took the party over when thatcher destroyed the TUC and if you would like to refute that please feel free to exhibit you political and social ignorance on that matter.

It is not an offence to be homeless however distasteful or sad so the police have abused public funding to perform a duty that is actually meant to be performed by a bailiff, under common law if they entered a private property without consent they may be removed as it is aggravated trespass (to use force to enter the property or to enter with the intention of habitation or if told to leave) but public property need's a direct demand from the council and the use of a court appointed bailiff is the only legally correct method with the police only providing protection for the bailiff and if necessary making the appropriate arrests.

God help these poor people.

So no one cares that the indigenous homeless are being exploited by immigrants who claim to be homeless and taking the very scarce and precious resources away from them...

"Oh I didn't know about that" is not an excuse, I provided a link, and then maybe understand why some posters are not overly concerned about the fact that homeless immigrants are being discouraged from sleeping rough in this country and that a bit of research prior to coming to the UK may be advisable to prevent being homeless here as there is an indigenous problem, which is only becoming worse by increasing the numbers.

How do we know that the individual involved hadn't taken these items from someone else? Do we have links to stories from other homeless people in the UK who have had the police do this? Where were they from? Do they have witnesses?

Nope, just another PC knee jerk reaction here on ATS, where those who believe they have the moral high ground, will sit in judgment of those who have a different viewpoint

reply to post by NewtonDKC


Pretty much.

It's just as easy to say everyone on Wall Street are thieving moralless coke-heads but hey, they sometimes kick back a little to my 401(k) so it's all good. Besides, what with their Armani suits and Gucci loafers they are much easier on the eyes and they don't stink.

Give me a break.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

This is simply a street cat extermination operation. When in your neighborhood the populace of street cats increases, what is the municipality going to do? Poison them.... collect and drawn them... sterilize them or make cat food out of them. These options mostly called as "humain".

When you start to have more and more homeless people, regardless of the reason why they are homeless, they become target of the street cat exterminators. Because from the moment on, where they are no more producing and only consuming (through help and charities), they start to become a burden and as the ordinary people can not do what the government does to those homeless people, they will simply shout around and write some helpless articels in several blogs or social networks.... the point will still remain that the homeless people have been exiled or left to die on their own. You do not see people around opening their doors to those in need, dont you? Those "Not In My Back Yard" (NIMBY) people do simply not care and most of the people who is against these operations are mostly the ones who is secretly supporting these actions through their inactions. Speaking is not a real action! Opening the door is an action....

That is called LIFE. Those who look for fairness in life are simply delusional, because life is not fair.... it is what it is.... harsh and unfair.

If the homeless people would try to find a shelter away from the city, would you think that they would receive a street cat treatment?

Those who cant help themselves are always doomed to their own oblivion!