JIHAD is doomed to complete failure.Here's why...

Think about this:

How many Muslims have died since the advent of the so called "Holy War"? Easy to guess, it's millions.

How many Western troops and civilians have died. Easy to guess, a fair few thousand.

When The God of The Hebrews said fire will fall from the sky upon the enemies of Israel (real Israel) He was not joking.

My advice to Islam is to drop the JIHAD. Now ain't the time for that. My advice is to accept Israel as a State and play your part in The United Nations.

You will not win in this. You are ironically slaughtering yourselves predominately.

Even prophesy states that Jesus will win The Battle At Megiddo. He will send The Beast and The False Prophet to the bottomless pit and Satan, too, (for a thousand years).

Salaam! Peace! Shalom! You may have a chance then of coming out of the stone age you have been driven back to.

Sorry to be so hard. I don't hate you. I like Arab people very much. But if you are going to go to war with The God of Abraham and The Hebrews you better be prepared for wholesale slaughter and martyrdom. For every thousand souls you take may be a million of yours will be taken. The Father knows the answers to this; I do not.

I despise this blood bath. I am a man of peace.

reply to post by Revolution9


"If I shut myself off so I can't hear you cry, What good am I?". (Bob Dylan).

That is why I am here on ATS? Why are YOU here?

reply to post by Revolution9

But if you are going to go to war with The God of Abraham and The Hebrews you better be prepared for wholesale slaughter and martyrdom.

Really?
Who is fighting with God of Abraham pbuh? muslims?

(3:64) Say: 'People of the Book! Come to a word common between us and you: that we shall serve none but Allah and shall associate none with Him in His divinity and that some of us will not take others as lords beside Allah.' And if they turn their backs (from accepting this call), tell them: 'Bear witness that we are the ones who have submitted ourselves exclusively to Allah.'
(3:65) People of the Book! Why do you dispute with us about Abraham even though the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after the time of Abraham? Do you not understand?

(3:66) Behold, you are those who have disputed greatly concerning matters which you knew; why are you now disputing about matters that you know nothing about? Allah
knows it whereas you do not know.
(3:67) Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he was a Muslim, wholly devoted to God. And he certainly was not amongst those who associate others with Allah in His divinity.
(3:68) Surely the people who have the best claim to a relationship with Abraham are those who followed him in the past, and presently this Prophet and those who believe in him; Allah is the guardian of the men of faith.

Originally posted by logical7
Who is fighting with God of Abraham pbuh? muslims?

(3:67) Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he was a Muslim, wholly devoted to God. And he certainly was not amongst those who associate others with Allah in His divinity.

Now that is downright silly. Muslims weren't invented until the 600's. Abraham, from thousands of years previously, was not a Muslim. If that's what the Muslims are claiming .. then it is indeed Muslims who are fighting with the God of Abraham ... by rewriting history and trying to claim something for themselves in which they have no legitimate right to claim.

reply to post by Revolution9

Originally posted by Revolution9

Sorry to be so hard. I don't hate you. I like Arab people very much. But if you are going to go to war with The God of Abraham and The Hebrews you better be prepared for wholesale slaughter and martyrdom.

Not all Arabs are Muslim, and there are Muslims who are not Arab.

You are saying if you do not agree with The One World Government of The UN then that is a "war" and you "will not win" - do you know the things the UN has been doing? It doesn't take much research on the internet to find out...

reply to post by logical7


Abraham was neither jew, christian nor muslim. None of those existed back then. He was from Ur of the Chaldees, a Sumerian/Chaldean. Called out of the land of "Babylon" he became the first hebrew (Habiru), those who crossed over (the river) out of Babylon and into a foreign land.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Qur'an is from the same and only ONE GOD that Abraham pbuh worshipped and Muslims are following the Creed of Abraham pbuh and so we associate none in divinity, no idol/statue, no angel/spirit, no man/prophet.
Also Abraham was NOT a jew or a christian and muslims are going back to his faith/creed and accept all prophets before and after him.

There is just One God and His One Message/Guidance to humanity delievered by different Prophets at different times to different people.
People get stuck to their Prophet when a next comes to correct some corruptions that creep in the religion, Jesus pbuh came for that and Jews rejected him as he criticized the priests for their wrongs.
Thats the reason there are 3 Abrahamic religions rather than One as not all accept a new prophet, happened with Jesus pbuh and Muhammad pbuh,
so Islam was not started in 6th century, its the same Message like by previous Prophets, If you are objecting to the word, feel free to call it "Submitting to God"
so do you worship and submit to God to the best of your ability and not make partners with Him in Divinity? Do you call only God for help in trouble and rely on Him and not some saint or prophet or astrology or tarot etc?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


YES, he was neither a jew nor a christian, he submitted complete to the Will of God, that would be said as being muslim in arabic.
Islam means to submit wholeheartedly to God,
Mu + Islam= Muslim meaning one who submits to God.

So do you agree that he submitted to God's Will?

(3:67) Abraham was neither a Jew
nor a Christian; he was a Muslim,
wholly devoted to God. And he
certainly was not amongst those
who associate others with Allah in
His divinity.

reply to post by logical7


Nope, no muslim. He made covenants with God. You don't make covenants with something you are submissive to. A "covenant" is quid pro quo based. You do this for me, and i'll do that for you. Something is given in an exchange. The exchange for Abraham was his Seed Jesus the Christ and that his decendants would be as numerous as the stars or sands in the sea.

The covenant to be a christian is, you come to Christ and he will save you, washing your sins away in his blood. This is the new covenant per Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Muslim don't make covenants with God.

reply to post by logical7


Dude .. spin it any way you want but the fact remains that Abraham lived THOUSANDS of years before Islam was invented. (and I do mean INVENTED) He wasn't a muslim. He didn't behave or believe anything like the Muslims do either. So trying to rewrite history and claim that which isn't yours .... it just doesn't work.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

Nope, no muslim. He made covenants with God. You don't make covenants with something you are submissive to. A "covenant" is quid pro quo based. You do this for me, and i'll do that for you. Something is given in an exchange. The exchange for Abraham was his Seed Jesus the Christ and that his decendants would be as numerous as the stars or sands in the sea.

The covenant to be a christian is, you come to Christ and he will save you, washing your sins away in his blood. This is the new covenant per Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Muslim don't make covenants with God.

Jesus pbuh is seed of nobody, especially if you also use Jesus pbuh saying, "before Abraham was, i am" to prove christian creed, he also does not have any decendants but Abraham pbuh has decendants through Ishmael pbuh and Isaac pbuh.

Yes a covenant is an exchange and Muslims make a simple covenant to live this life in submission and obedience to God rather than following our own desires in exchange of the chance to meet God and be in Heaven forever.

How can just coming to Christ be a covenant by your own definition? What is a christian offering in the exchange? Isn't following Christ in actions and behaviour also a part of the covenant?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7

 

Dude .. spin it any way you want but the fact remains that Abraham lived THOUSANDS of years before Islam was invented. (and I do mean INVENTED) He wasn't a muslim. He didn't behave or believe anything like the Muslims do either. So trying to rewrite history and claim that which isn't yours .... it just doesn't work.

you are looking at the word "muslim" in a typical modern definition. Fine!

Do you agree that the God of Abraham pbuh and God of Jesus pbuh is the same and only One no matter how many thousand years are past?

Muslims believe in the same God, worship Him and submit to Him in obedience.

Anyone who believe the same God and worship Him alone automatically become a family in faith.

2:136
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

reply to post by logical7


Then Abraham is Catholic. The Catholics can claim him.
And Jesus is Catholic. And so was Adam and so was Eve.
See? It doesn't work that way. It's over-reach to try to justify a religion
by back-claiming the 'big guys'.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7

 

Then Abraham is Catholic. The Catholics can claim him.
And Jesus is Catholic. And so was Adam and so was Eve.
See? It doesn't work that way. It's over-reach to try to justify a religion
by back-claiming the 'big guys'.

Really??
who is claiming the "big guys"??
Muslims acknowledge them and respect them all as Prophets of God. The last i knew you had nothing to do with Abraham, Moses etc peace be upon them and now you don't like muslims calling them their prophets too.

Jesus pbuh as catholic!!
i am very sure he would be horrified to go in a catholic church and see his own statue nailed to the cross!! And people worshipping him rather than the Father that he preached them to worship!

Originally posted by logical7
who is claiming the "big guys"??

apparently you are ... you are calling Abraham a 'muslim'

The last i knew you had nothing to do with Abraham, Moses etc peace be upon them

Correct. I don't. But 3 billion other people on the planet do. They are indeed 'the big guys' of the abrahamic religions.

and now you don't like muslims calling them their prophets too.

1 - I never said anything about 'liking or disliking'.
2 - I say it's ABSURD for Islam to claim Moses or Abraham or Jesus as Muslim. Just as it would be absurd for Catholics to call Abraham or Moses or Jesus 'Catholic'.

i am very sure he would be horrified to go in a catholic church and see his own statue nailed to the cross!! And people worshipping him rather than the Father that he preached them to worship!

I am just as sure He would be horrified to go to a Muslim Mosque and find that He has been reduced from being Who He Is .. God Incarnate ... to being nothing more than a side kick to some mythological Mahadi.

again ... using your faulty criteria ... Abraham is Catholic.
Pretty dang silly, isn't it?
Ditto for those who say Abraham was Muslim. It's absurd.

reply to post by FlyersFan


i claimed the word "muslim" as an adverb, Islam being the verb, you took it as a proper noun as its used in modern day use and i accepted not to use it in later post.

You tell me, if muslims believe the same God as Abraham pbuh and are pure monotheist like him, they even celebrate an Eid when they sacrifice and animal to remember the devotion and sacrifice of Abraham pbuh, then don't they have a better claim to be followers of Abraham pbuh?
According to muslims its all just One religion from Adam to Muhammad peace be upon them all. At least the basics are same. God sends prophets to guide people and warn the wrongdoers to reform and become better, some benefit from the guidance and warning and some are too arrogant to listen to a mere human teaching them as they know better!
Once a prophet comes and delivers the message the responsibility from God's side and responsibility of the Prophet is done and its upto people to make an informed decision and heed the message or mock it.

When Jesus pbuh enters any mosque he will not find anything horrifying, its just a big room and thats it. Jesus pbuh is also not going to be a side kick, you read up a minority position and assume it to be muslim belief. What you read about iran and khomeni is not majority Islamic view.
When Jesus pbuh comes, muslims will be joining him eagerly too.

Originally posted by logical7
then don't they have a better claim to be followers of Abraham

Muslims follow Muhammads invention.. not the religion of Abraham.

According to muslims its all just One religion from Adam to Muhammad .

And that would be incorrect on their part. If it's all one religion .. then Muslims are Jews.
And as we can see by the TV News ... that's simply not the case.

When Jesus pbuh enters any mosque he will not find anything horrifying,

Says you. I am convinced that He would ... just as you are convinced he'd be horrified
walking into a Christian church.

When Jesus pbuh comes, muslims will be joining him eagerly too.

Yeah ... I doubt it. Muslims have been given a whole lot of anti-Christian propaganda and told it 'came from God'. Muslims won't recognize Jesus when He comes again. Jesus is God ... He'll come with all power and glory ... every nation shall know it's Him and Who He is ... and it'll totally go against the Muslim notion that Jesus was just a man and He didn't rise from the dead etc etc.

Those that do follow Christ will first have to abandon their Muslim notions and those that do will be pretty dang upset with Muhammad and the rest of his minions who lied to them.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Muhammad pbuh is in the lineage of Abraham pbuh through Ishmael pbuh, Just like Moses pbuh is through Isaac pbuh. Do you think all these not have the same God or same belief in Judgement day and Heaven n Hell?

Religion is about spirituality not race! Jews are a race who worship the same God so the faith is the same.

Why would a plain simple room horrify Jesus pbuh

it is going to be interesting and very misleading FF,
i hope you know that the anti christ will come 1st and claim to be God, i very much hope that christians don't follow him!!
Later Jesus pbuh will come and kill the AC and then it will all be cleared.

Dont follow anyone claiming to be Messiah and god.
Tell me that you have it in your teachings that AC will come 1st otherwise it will be a disaster!

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by logical7
Who is fighting with God of Abraham pbuh? muslims?

(3:67) Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he was a Muslim, wholly devoted to God. And he certainly was not amongst those who associate others with Allah in His divinity.

Now that is downright silly. Muslims weren't invented until the 600's. Abraham, from thousands of years previously, was not a Muslim. If that's what the Muslims are claiming .. then it is indeed Muslims who are fighting with the God of Abraham ... by rewriting history and trying to claim something for themselves in which they have no legitimate right to claim.

Who invented people or humans?

Whats downright silly is your use of the word invented.