It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Woolwich attack: Muslim cleric Anjem Choudray claims he knew murder suspect - video

page: 2
6
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 24 2013 @ 10:53 AM
link   
reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 


Just an observation, i thought the objective of increasing immigration was because the population base is falling and new blood is needed to stimulate the economy and help pay for the aging boomers, not to put them on the welfare role on arrival and suck money out of the system, if this is the case, we have a serious, serious problem and i'm not just talking about terrorism propaganda being spewed by the likes of the post.




posted on May, 24 2013 @ 10:56 AM
link   
reply to post by whatnext21
 


I agree..........

Choudray though is NOT an immigrant..he was born in Britain in 1967 and gained an education through the British university system................ Would he have got the same in a Sharia land....??

PDUK



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 10:59 AM
link   
reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 


It depends on their political stance within their own countries as to what they would have got.


At the rate they have children I think they have up to 5 times more children than British folk, their numbers will grow. So either way dialogue has to be made with what they say are the " angry youth" not dialogue like " what do you want now?" but dialogue as in making sure they know the laws of the country and that they are very unlike Islamic laws. Although they might know this, in their heads they are still " in conflict" zones.

Its a tough call but they got to put in more efforts to prevent other such future incidents from happening.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 11:32 AM
link   
reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 
Wasn't aware that he was born in UK. In that case, UK should setup a GITMO?



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 12:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by hp1229
reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 
Wasn't aware that he was born in UK. In that case, UK should setup a GITMO?


For people who have not broken the law?


The fact is, if he had broken the law he would be in a court room and facing charges. He hasn't, because he gets his lackeys to do the dirty work for him. He's just the puppet master, a vocal prick who pushes younger and more delusional people into being violent and wasting their lives for HIS fanatical ideas.

Someone else mentioned that he has the right to his opinion, and that's true, we live in a free society where we are supposed to respect the rights of others and their right to share their views. As long as those views are not inciting hatred or violence.
But that freedom to express opinion does not remove the ability for the authorities to monitor those views.

I can preach about anything in public, but if I raise suspicions and my views are starting to scare people, then the government and intelligence agencies have a DUTY to monitor.

As I said before, I don't agree with the mass monitoring of the population, but I think in cases like this it should be open and stated - you preach ideas on the street that scare others, or go against the expected way of life for the community around you, then you should expect to be bugged, watched like a hawk, monitored, routinely questioned and viewed with extreme suspicion for the rest of your days. Your family and friends should also expect the same.

There is no need to keep this hidden and do it under secrecy. If a man wants to preach views in a community where those views are threatening, they should be told that they are considered a threat and that we will spend a lot of money to watch them and restrict them for the rest of their days.

And if they don't like it, they can leave.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 


This guy has also been claiming Benefits for years.... something in the region of £25,000 per year, yet he still shouts his mouth and yet the Government do nothing.

The very least they should do is stop his Benefits!


edit on 24-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)


Interesting what you say and if true ....:-0 then Mr Choudray is a complete fraud and hypocritical arse hole of the highest order..

Again i default tot he fact that if he feels so strongly that Sharia law should prevail then he should move to a country where sharia law exists.......... simple.

On a separate point............ why does the Government of the UK do nothing do you think...?





IN all honesty... this is my own verdict. I think the Government want a Race War/Religious War of some kind to start here....

And after reading other Threads on ATS, maybe its so that the Government can have more reasons to watch us and implement more rules!!

Pretty soon, they will get their way I think.....

People are pissed and tensions are rising. I, myself felt anger and resentment when I went out to the shop yesterday. I was angry at the 'Burqa' clad women I saw in the street and anyone who looked like they were from a Country in Africa! I also felt that I was being looked at too.....

I think this is what the Government and these Radicals want.... they want a Fight to start... a big one.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:12 PM
link   
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 


Well that wont happen as many people are atheists, agnostics and so on.

Bang goes your theory!

But there ALREADY exists ones of sorts. What do you think Muslims think when president Bush used to say " And God says go to war to bring democracy" and so on... such stuff.
edit on 24-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Rocker2013
 


Be real. How much money do you think it will cost to monitor all those with extremist views. Come on now....



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:17 PM
link   
reply to post by The X
 




Now that this information has come to light, i hope there is a way to connect his hateful rhetoric with the actions of the woolwich killer. Imams who inflame feelings with talk of murder and killings need to be stopped from spreading hate speech.

The only part of Islam I adore, is Sufism, and I know many Sufi's who are like brothers and sister to me.

I guess the next step is policing Imams and finding out who is spewing and radicalizing the folloers, and actually doing something about it.

I've seen videos of some Islamic protests in England and have heard various sentiments that border on radicalized fundamentalism.

This is really a big mess and Religion does suck



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:17 PM
link   
So Freedom of Speech includes inciting violence and radical ideas into the minds of impressionable youth?




Freedom of expression:
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes:
(a) freedom of the press and other media;
(b) freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
(c) freedom of artistic creativity; and
(d) academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.
(2) The right in subsection (1) does not extend to-
(a) propaganda for war;
(b) incitement of imminent violence; or
(c) advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 01:23 PM
link   
They cannot police Imams and I will tell you for one simple reason ...

Imams are in other countries also. The British government cannot go abroad and change the views there. And the people who come from abroad take their views from their countries of origin.

It isnt always British Imams who spew this stuff.

So it wont prevent future terrorism
edit on 24-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
They cannot police Imams and I will tell you for one simple reason ...

Imams are in other countries also. The British government cannot go abroad and change the views there. And the people who come from abroad take their views from their countries of origin.

It isnt always British Imams who spew this stuff.

So it wont prevent future terrorism
edit on 24-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

so what do yo suggest is the answer?

WW III ??? MAke all religions illegal?

I personally thing Genetically Modifying humans to be smarter and to include access to the spiritual parts of the brain within, will eventually wipe out Islam and all fundamentalism.

Or technology that allows gradual Spiritual Enlightenment will also bring this to fruition.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by dominicus
 


Well they can pretend to tell the Imams off lol to make everyone feel safe. But do you want to be safe or feel safe? Is the question...

They need to talk about this issue and sort it out. It is unfair to go abroad and just kill people. In the name of what? We need to think abit more and actually agree when things have gone too far.

In my opinion this will at least help some part of the peace process .



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:15 PM
link   
UK is no 3rd world nation, but a ruled by law nation for centuries, with a modern form of democracy under a constitutional monarchy created along prostestant christian principles, the very form of law that had been taught to bright young sparks from colonized nations whom when they gained independence, sought to follow such enlightened laws accordingly in the commonwealth.

Shariah law are laws which came from another culture, of another time which developed civilisation's creeds, based upon Islamic principles as taught by Prophet Muhammad, teachings of which came from the very same source as christianity, as we all came from the same common Creator who is known by many names across time and space.

Many of its moral and ethical guides are the same, and differences which may had been misinterpretated can be bridged by finding common grounds upon that we all mankind shares - similar values.

However, muslims- local, converts or new citizens, must realized that UK had long already its own set of constitution which everyone abides by, and cannot be changed on a whim unless it has a 2/3 majority.

Much of those laws are secular, but DO allows freedom of worship, BUT, such worship are confined to private space and NOT into the public.

Thus to avoid any misunderstanding or unhappiness, muslims must respect the laws of the land first. If they wish for change, then they must follow the legal procedures, by election of vote by the majority, or hold their peace, or take a cab ride to the airports which are opened 24/7. No need for minority's take to violence, as it will only bring tragedy to all, espacially to the minority, and their dead bodies will not even be allowed on the nation's soil.


As for Chowdary, make no mistake - it is NOT about shariah law that he and his kind seeks and which many presumed. He may want it to be shown as such, and will fool others into believing even this falsehood, BUT, it is POWER that he and his kind seeks.

If he had been a true muslim, and a liar.....opps...typo...lawyer, he should have been educated enough to seek for the truth and know full well prophet Muhammad's teachings, as well as the history of Islam of 1300years, and know what he had preached had been blasphemy and lies.

He, is an animal, and never truly cared about Islam, despite the outward hypocrisy piety. He and beasts like him sought only for POWER - the power to control and dominate others, that at present, he had not enough nor respected by the muslim world.

He and his kind believes that if they succeed, they will be placed in positions of power, and may even get a stab to be the PM one day and rule over the entire muslim world, gain the recognition and glory that comes with it, a vindication of his atrocious efforts.

The middle classes and the poor would probably scoff at the greed for power, as not many understand what it can do for one who gains it. With it comes benefits which many will assume, but the responsibilities are many that ignores or are unaware.

Many who longed for power had always started on noble intentions, but power is corruptive, as its roots sink in deep, and in an ever competitive world, one will do anything, anything to maintain that hold to power, even if they have to sell their soul to the dark side and allow mistakes to rule.

The cleric Chowdary and others like him had long sold their souls to the dark side, and are awaiting at the checkout counter to claim their prize. Only good men are preventing him from receiving it, for what he teaches are lies and perversions, and must be stopped, with legislated laws to prevent animals like him from corrupting others to kill innocent men, women and children.

Clerics and preachers play an important role in society, but if they used the secular law of speech freedom to incite hate, minority exclusivity, intolerance and violence, then they must be hauled to courts, even supreme courts, whom determine the legality of legislated laws, be found guilty and locked up for life with no parole. It is not their bodies that will cause hurt, but their formulated twisted minds, and thus best kept away from society. They are not ordinary criminals.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:21 PM
link   
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Many immigrants dont speak fluent english let alone understand the laws and constitution. They arent taught anything...hence why these situations exist and maybe why the " tension" exists at all.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:32 PM
link   
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


They are using the Article 19 in the Charter of Human Rights to speak their own hate, why they aren't being rounded up by our lawmakers and made accountable for the actions of their words is way beyond my ability to understand what is going on. Seems that Part 2 was not read, nor understood.

Freedom of expression:
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes:
(a) freedom of the press and other media;
(b) freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
(c) freedom of artistic creativity; and
(d) academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.
(2) The right in subsection (1) does not extend to- (a) propaganda for war; (b) incitement of imminent violence; or (c) advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:33 PM
link   
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 


You'd think the government would have done something by now - about the likes of Choudry and Hamza and yet...nothing. It's almost as if they're government workers or something - Abu Hamza always has some sort of smug look on his face too!



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:34 PM
link   
reply to post by FreedomEntered
 


Then it is a matter of immigration law that needs to fine tune. No need to bar anyone seeks refuge in UK, but anyone who seeks for immigration must face mandatory tests to ensure that they comprehend the very laws, the languge and the culture that they had sought to blend in within a trial period.

Failling which, the door to the airports are always open. No need for any excuse of 'don't know, or don't understand'. Each has the freedom of choice.

Once accepted, allegience to the nation, society and its laws are expected. Failure to do so, then be prepared to face the full weight of societal laws that protects and which the majority abides by.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:49 PM
link   
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Well when people come from a culture that doesnt really want to mix out for fear of losing their religion or culture then they wont learn British ways.

I think the Woolwich terrorist was aware of the British laws but was totally in a " world" created by these muslim extremists. They do this to each other.



posted on May, 24 2013 @ 02:50 PM
link   
I have a real hard time with what has happened here. It would seem that this preacher was inspiration in this horrific event. This poor soul had no clue that his day would end this way. His hideous barbaric death, done to make a point to others on the streets of a civilized society, planned and designed to remove all dignity from his memory all in a plot to provoke fear across the lands. Nice job preach, freedom of speech, works. Somebody better make some consequential laws and fast for this type of terrorism, home grown or not.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join