Common Core Standards to be Used to Indoctrinate First Graders For the Good of the Collective.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

This is fun. Yeah, I did bad mouth your single source - and I did check on him..... hense the derogatory comment.

Physically lazy maybe - but never intellectuallly.

But - wait now you are naming other sources - kinda of late to the party.

Again - What is YOUR POINT????

How is this indoctronation?? (or however you spell it) do you even know what the word means?

Oh - maybe because it indroctronates kids in the scientific method perhaps. A system that has worked for centuries, in many different secular cultures. In need up an update true - what do you think we should teach children?

Maybe - not teach children anything - that's it isn't it?

Well I could use some indoctronation in English Spelling.

This has nothing to do with liberal or conservatiive it has to do with reason. People of all flavors may dislike this curriculm - but that doesn't make it indoctronation.
.

Originally posted by FyreByrd

This is fun. Yeah, I did bad mouth your single source - and I did check on him..... hense the derogatory comment.

Physically lazy maybe - but never intellectuallly.

But - wait now you are naming other sources - kinda of late to the party.
...

If you would stop being so lazy and checked you would have seen that I had added other sources BEFORE your responses...

Originally posted by FyreByrd
Again - What is YOUR POINT????
...

You are not debating the argument intelligently, you are attacking the messengers and just dismissing the argument for the sake of arguing...

All I see you doing is derailing more and more this thread.
I have provided evidence, and so have other members, I don't really give a crap whether you agree with it or not.

Just dismissing the evidence, and arguing like you are just for the sake of arguing doesn't debunk any of the evidence provided.

Originally posted by FyreByrd
...
How is this indoctronation?? (or however you spell it) do you even know what the word means?

Oh - maybe because it indroctronates kids in the scientific method perhaps. A system that has worked for centuries, in many different secular cultures. In need up an update true - what do you think we should teach children?

Ok, I can see that you don't understand the difference between "teaching" the scientific method and "indoctrinating" the scientific method.

Let me try to help you a bit. This can be done quite easily btw.

indoctrination

teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


If you "indoctrinate" children, or adults about the "scientific method" you are brainwashing them not to learn new theories or methods in science... You are making them accept old scientific methods and theories which could for all intent and purposes be wrong...

Throughout the history of science there has been many times when new evidence, and newly acquired knowledge has shown that old scientific methods, which once were thought to be 100% correct, were completely wrong... Even in this day and age we are learning and acquiring new evidence and scientific methods which have completely destroyed, or updated old scientific theories.

What you actually should do, if you are a teacher or a professor, is "teach", not "indoctrinate."

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Ok, I can see that you don't understand the difference between "teaching" the scientific method and "indoctrinating" the scientific method.

Let me try to help you a bit. This can be done quite easily btw.

indoctrination

teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

And just how do these 'standards' or any standards 'indoctrinate'.

It is not a set of standards that indroctrinate, it is the teachers, schools, society.

I still don't see your point. Are the standards evil? Are the people who wrote them evil?

You speak of 'critical thinking' but don't do any. Do you think this is a new problem? No - but standards are just lists of subjects and skills. We use standards for everything - measurement of any kind uses a standard.

Again - what do you want to teach children - what are the STANDARDS you want to indoctronate children with?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Now you are accusing me of ad hominem attack?... After your first try to dismiss this, for some reason after I started posting more sources corroborating my argument you stated in your second post, and I quote:

Originally posted by FyreByrd
You base you opinion on a radom you tube video and not verifiable facts? Some ignorant "Christian Nation" freek out of Utah.
...

edit on 29-5-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

The guy (don't remeber his name) states on his website that the USA was founded as a "Christian Nation" and that is simply false. And if you are studying to become a citizen, you would know that - but then that would be indroctronation wouldn't it?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by FyreByrd

You are welcome to do as you wish. I generally post things for discussion to hear different sides to an issue to help me come to an often temporary opinion.

When I have a strong opinion on an issue or topic, I site many sources both for and against - to get information out - not my opinion. And I DON"T FREAK OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Really?... Ironic, I have looked at your threads and only see you providing one source, and sometimes just your opinion...

In at least one thread of yours you ask people to be civil, and actually, let me quote you...

Originally posted by FyreByrd
...
Please be civil. Just 'Denying Racim" is just Denial and doesn't make it true. We all have prejudces of one sort or another and until we acknowledge them and look at them in the light of day, we'll never be whole.

This is a good example ----

This thread was a question and in the OP I referenced another thread on ATS that was shut down because people became heated, I shared a personal experience (a valid source) and I referenced a factual articule listing 50 facts about racisim. All these were in the spirit of discussion and a willingness to hear different sides of the conversation. The thread was quite civil because people listened rather then tried to force their opinion on others as fact and I learned (key point here) quite a lot.

This is what I see you and others often doing - stating an opinion as fact.

I've not been attacking you - but I do attack your presentation and lack of reasonable support. I and everyone else has a right to their opinion and that should be respected.

I don't always respect the opinions of others and I take sick pleasure in baiting 'porcupines' that get all defense when someone tells them they have a wrong idea and for that I'm sorry.

You will not convince anyone of anything by sensationalizing the material. I could very well have supported your position if you had presented it calmly and with 'more balanced' commentary on a factual document.

After all this - I still have no idea what your point is. What do you want? Or are you just 'screaming fire' in a packed theater.

Originally posted by tport17
...
Once again, teachers are not out there trying to indoctrinate your children. It does give me a giggle when these threads pop up though.

I didn't say you specifically are doing this, although I really don't know you. I don't know if what you are saying about yourself is true. Don't take it personally. The thing is, there is plenty of evidence that says the contrary to what you are saying, and btw, there are also plenty of videos on the internet of teachers who were caught and videotaped indoctrinating children, so the fact that you are "giggling" about a real problem that is happening today gives me pause, and makes me doubt your statements.

It could be that you really have no idea that such indoctrination is taking place, or it could be that you simply choose to ignore or even dismiss the fact that it is happening. Since you are trying to dismiss something that is really happening in many schools, and even in colleges and universities across the U.S., but is being done more so to children in America, due to the fact that children can't really think critically yet and can't realize what is being done to them, I have to doubt all your statements.

reply to post by FyreByrd


If you had taken the time to read the excerpts and links given you would understand what I am talking about, but it seems that you are unwilling to do so.

You are not ready to discuss the topic of this thread when you don't even understand the difference between indoctrination and teaching.

The children are being indoctrinated, through these common core standards, to use their emotions rather than really using their cognitive thinking. They are being indoctrinated to convey what they will perceive as being "the right answers to the social and world problems" by way of emotions.

Answers to these "social and world problems" are being implanted in children through the numerous ads, on tv, and basically everywhere. Even music bands, musicians, and the Hollywood crowd are advocating constantly such agendas, such as anthropogenic global warming, or the so called "world population problem." These are agendas that are being used to dismantle our individual rights, after all it is for the good of the Earth, and the good of the collective, right?

The standards are also dumbing down the children, as examples, the CCS new guidelines are asking teachers to replace fictional books from school curriculum and replacing them with "informational books" such as "the Environmental Protection Agency's Recommended Levels of Insulation and the California Invasive Plant Council's Invasive Plant Inventory." Meanwhile standards in mathematics are being lowered to the point that fourth grade children are being taught what they should know in third grade.

BTW, in case you didn't know literary books which are fictional, retain children's attention much longer, even though they are fictional books, such Great literary works allow for children to learn basic cognitive thinking skills, not to mention that they expand children's imagination.

As for people having a right to their opinion? Sure, but opinions don't make facts, and don't debunk them either.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Common Core Standards is "an international effort" to change Americans into the progressive idea of "world citizens", it is an international effort to "globalize" every person on this planet. To "shape" future generations to believe and follow the "progressive agenda" that the world elites have been trying to implement for so long, and it seems they have won if we don't do anything about it before it is too late.

As stated in the IBO website, their goal is:

Our four programmes for students aged 3 to 19 help develop the intellectual, personal, emotional and social skills to live, learn and work in a rapidly globalizing world. There are more than 1,102,000 IB students at 3,588 schools in 145 countries.

And,....
that's a problem...why????

Intellectual,
personal,
emotional,
and
social skills,
TO LIVE, LEARN, and WORK in a rapidly globalizing world.

It is happening, and all your moaning and whining is not going to stop it.

Beyond that, you have a wrong and skewed understanding of what 'we Progressives' are trying to accomplish. Stop listening to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News. It's messing with your head.

I don't expect (or want) a response. Just wanted to put my rebuttal out there.

You are mistaken, in a very serious and dangerous way.

Originally posted by wildtimes

And,....
that's a problem...why????

Intellectual,
personal,
emotional,
and
social skills,
TO LIVE, LEARN, and WORK in a rapidly globalizing world.

It is happening, and all your moaning and whining is not going to stop it.

Beyond that, you have a wrong and skewed understanding of what 'we Progressives' are trying to accomplish. Stop listening to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News. It's messing with your head.

I don't expect (or want) a response. Just wanted to put my rebuttal out there.

You are mistaken, in a very serious and dangerous way.

And here we have an example of an emotional response... No evidence whatsoever to debunk the evidence provided, but the only thing the poster does is to make ad hominem attacks even when the sources belittled by "wildtimes" are NOWHERE to be found within this thread...

Should we really look at the history of what "progressives" have done, and keep doing to this day in the Constitutional Republic of the United States?...

BTW, I will just give "some" examples of "progressives", and their ideas in the past and the present.

"Progressive" ideas include the implementation of the Federal Reserve, the IRS, and regulatory agencies which have only allowed a few rich elites to monopolize entire industries.

It was a "progressive" Democrat President, Woodrow Wilson, together with a Democrat Congress who implemented the Federal Reserve, and the IRS, among other agencies.

In his first term as President, Wilson persuaded a Democratic Congress to pass major progressive reforms. Historian John M. Cooper argues that, in his first term, Wilson successfully pushed a legislative agenda that few presidents have equaled, remaining unmatched up until the New Deal.[1] This agenda included the Federal Reserve Act, Federal Trade Commission Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Federal Farm Loan Act and an income tax.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

In the history of their movement, "progressives" have shown that they have no respect, or love for the United States Constitution, or even individual rights. Examples of this fact are found below.

Woodrow Wilson disparaged the U.S. Constitution, and individual rights.

...
No doubt a great deal of nonsense has been talked about the inalienable rights of the individual, and a great deal that was mere vague sentiment and pleasing speculation has been put forward as fundamental principle.
...

In the following link you can find a scan of the page with Wilson's comment which I excerpted above and can be found in any copy of the book he wrote, Constitutional government in the United States, Volume 3.

link

Progressives have included people from the republican party, which is an oxymoron since "progressivism" seeks for bigger government and true "Republicanism" is against big government.

Anyway, "progressives" in the past, and today love to impose their ideas on everyone else. Examples of this include the fact that they implemented "prohibition", the "New Deal" which gave power to "democrats" and was implemented under another "progressive democrat President. Even in this day and age "progressives" are still trying to force their views on Americans.

...
The New Deal produced a political realignment, making the Democratic Party the majority (as well as the party that held the White House for seven out of nine Presidential terms from 1933 to 1969), with its base in liberal ideas, the white South, traditional Democrats, big city machines, and the newly empowered labor unions and ethnic minorities. The Republicans were split, with conservatives opposing the entire New Deal as an enemy of business and growth, and liberals accepting some of it and promising to make it more efficient. The realignment crystallized into the New Deal Coalition that dominated most presidential elections into the 1960s, while the opposition Conservative Coalition largely controlled Congress from 1937 to 1963. By 1936 the term "liberal" typically was used for supporters of the New Deal, and "conservative" for its opponents.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

This is getting too long so next I will post examples of today's "progressives" and their reforms, and ideas.

Progressives today include people like Janet Napolitano.

Janet Napolitano on Foreign Policy

Democratic AZ Governor; Designee for Secretary of Homeland Security

Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence.
Napolitano adopted the manifesto, "A New Agenda for the New Decade":
Build a Public Consensus Supporting US Global Leadership
The internationalist outlook that served America and the world so well during the second half of the 20th century is under attack from both ends of the political spectrum. As the left has gravitated toward protectionism, many on the right have reverted to “America First” isolationism.

Our leaders should articulate a progressive internationalism based on the new realities of the Information Age: globalization, democracy, American pre-eminence, and the rise of a new array of threats ranging from regional and ethnic conflicts to the spread of missiles and biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. This approach recognizes the need to revamp, while continuing to rely on, multilateral alliances that advance U.S. values and interests.

A strong, technologically superior defense is the foundation for US global leadership. Yet the US continues to employ defense strategies, military missions, and force structures left over from the Cold War, creating a defense establishment that is ill-prepared to meet new threats to our security. The US must speed up the “revolution in military affairs” that uses our technological advantage to project force in many different contingencies involving uncertain and rapidly changing security threats -- including terrorism and information warfare.
...

www.ontheissues.org...

Janet Napolitano is a "progressive" who is known to target anyone who is not a "progressive", and even has labeled Americans with different ideas than hers, and other "progressives", as "extremists".

Napolitano is Lying to Americans About Her Department’s Rightwing Extremism Report; TMLC Files Suit
...
Napolitano tried to blunt the public furor over the Report by a half-hearted apology to veterans, but she left out of her apology all of the other Americans her Department has targeted because of their political beliefs. In fact, officials in DHS now admit that their internal office of civil liberties objected to the language in the extremism report, but the Department issued it anyway.

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center stated, “Janet Napolitano is lying to the American people when she says the Report is not based on ideology or political beliefs. In fact, her report would have the admiration of the Gestapo and any current or past dictator in the way it targets political opponents. This incompetently written intelligence assessment, which directs law enforcement officials across the country to target and report on American citizens who have the political beliefs mentioned in the report, will be used as a tool to stifle political opposition and opinions. It will give a pretext for opponents of those Americans to report them to police as rightwing extremists and terrorists. You can imagine what happens then.”

The Report specifically mentions the following political beliefs that law enforcement should use to determine whether someone is a “rightwing extremist”:

Opposes abortion
Opposes restrictions on firearms
Opposes lax immigration
Opposes the policies of President Obama regarding immigration, citizenship, and the expansion of social programs
Opposes continuation of free trade agreements
Opposes same-sex marriage
Has paranoia of foreign regimes
Fear of Communist regimes
Opposes one world government
Bemoans the decline of U.S. stature in the world.
Upset with loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs to China and India
. . . and the list goes on
...

www.thomasmore.org...

Of course, President Obama is another "progressive" who has implemented legislation which seeks to "force" his point of view, and that of "progressives" on every American. Such legislation which has passed with the help of other "progressives" includes...

National service bill makes 'volunteerism' compulsory

The Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act (S. 277) has passed the senate and moves to the house.

By Lucy Hugel

Thursday, the U.S. Senate sent back to the House an amended bill to "expand and improve opportunities for service," legislation modeled on President Obama's campaign promise to establish "universal voluntary citizen service."
...
How could expanding community service programs have such a radical effect in the land of liberty? To understand this, one must see how the plan aims to smuggle in compulsory service.

Under these proposed initiatives, service begins in youth. By providing grants to public and private schools that offer "service-learning" programs, the act creates financial incentives for elementary and secondary schools to expand service-related projects, thus making the school or the state the bad cop in enforcing compliance.

In college, the press for service continues; students will be urged to perform substantial community service in exchange for educational grants. Furthermore, financial incentives for the colleges or universities will tie federal funds to campuswide service initiatives, providing an additional, indirect attack on the college-going population.

The call for service then extends to adults, as the plan triples the size of the AmeriCorps program, developing several new "Corps" specifically tailored to support other items from the administration's agenda.

Finally, senior citizens will be called upon to serve in the Senior Corps, also marked for expansion.
National service would become pervasive and virtually unavoidable -- and that is the goal.

But what about those Americans who don't want to serve? Remember, this plan was launched under the guise of volunteerism. Yet it will ensure compliance by linking financial benefits to service requirements -- by making certain federal funds are conditional upon the "donation" of labor.

Don't confuse this plan with benevolence toward others. Many Americans enjoy volunteering time or donating money to a worthy cause of their own choosing. One must distinguish, however, between these actions willingly taken and a law that would forcibly draft all Americans into involuntary servitude -- something outlawed by the 13th Amendment.
...

www.pennlive.com...


Or another example is Obama's indefinite detention, aka NDAA...



BTW, I am not saying that every person who is part of the progressive movement is like this, but many, if not most regular members of the progressive movement either have no idea of the true intentions of the movement, or they just totally ignore, and or dismiss the facts presented to them, and this is because these same people are examples of Americans who use their emotions to convey their views and ideas instead of using their cognitive thinking.

reply to post by wildtimes


Oh, and btw, to respond your question directly, the problem is how they are using your "emotions", and the emotions of children to impart the globalization views that tptb want you, and children to believe in and follow to the letter.

No government or group, outside from family, should be trying to shape children's "emotions". By doing this it is very easy to "shape" the beliefs and values of people since childhood, and in this manner people can be indoctrinated to believe, for example, that people should be giving up individual rights "for the good of the collective."

People can be very easily controlled through their emotions, and that's what tptb are doing, and have already done in many cases.

Even YOU in your response here are not only using your own emotions, but you are trying to instill the same response on other members to try to dismiss FACTS by using emotional responses instead of engaging your cognitive thinking and making a rational counter-argument...

So thank you for making my point...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by FyreByrd
...
How is this indoctronation?? (or however you spell it) do you even know what the word means?

Oh - maybe because it indroctronates kids in the scientific method perhaps. A system that has worked for centuries, in many different secular cultures. In need up an update true - what do you think we should teach children?

Ok, I can see that you don't understand the difference between "teaching" the scientific method and "indoctrinating" the scientific method.

Let me try to help you a bit. This can be done quite easily btw.

indoctrination

teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


If you "indoctrinate" children, or adults about the "scientific method" you are brainwashing them not to learn new theories or methods in science... You are making them accept old scientific methods and theories which could for all intent and purposes be wrong...

Throughout the history of science there has been many times when new evidence, and newly acquired knowledge has shown that old scientific methods, which once were thought to be 100% correct, were completely wrong... Even in this day and age we are learning and acquiring new evidence and scientific methods which have completely destroyed, or updated old scientific theories.

What you actually should do, if you are a teacher or a professor, is "teach", not "indoctrinate."

edit on 30-5-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

I joined ATS just to address this post, because it is so completely ignorant.

The scientific method is an intellectual tool that will allow people to think independently, because science is based upon challenging and questioning science itself. The scientific method is not a doctrine, it is a formula
that can be applied to any thing you'd wish to examine or question.

FYI this DANGEROUS, communist formula is as follows:

Formulation of Question
Hypothesis
Testing
Analysis
Successful or Failed Hypothesis


This method gives everyone the tools they need to be independent thinkers

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Oh, and btw, to respond your question directly, the problem is how they are using your "emotions", and the emotions of children to impart the globalization views that tptb want you, and children to believe in and follow to the letter.

No government, or group, outside from family, should be trying to shape children's "emotions". By doing this it is very easy to "shape" the beliefs and values of people since childhood, and in this manner people can be indoctrinated to believe, for example, that people should be giving up individual rights "for the good of the collective."

People can be very easily controlled through their emotions, and that's what tptb are doing, and have already done in many cases.

Even YOU in your response here are not only using your own emotions, but you are trying to instill the same response on other members to try to dismiss FACTS by using emotional responses instead of engaging your cognitive thinking and making a rational counter-argument...

So thank you for making my point...

edit on 31-5-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

I have read through this thread and it appears that you are the person who is driven by emotion, fear.

Originally posted by hamburgerler

I joined ATS just to address this post, because it is so completely ignorant.

The scientific method is an intellectual tool that will allow people to think independently, because science is based upon challenging and questioning science itself. The scientific method is not a doctrine, it is a formula
that can be applied to any thing you'd wish to examine or question.
...

Wow...so you are calling me ignorant when it seems that you believe the scientific method has never changed over the course of history?...

What you are claiming is that the scientific method doesn't, and has never evolved...and you are calling me ignorant...

BTW, you should have noticed that I was making a distinction between TEACHING and INDOCTRINATING the scientific method...

If all you are going to do is insult stay out of the discussion...thank you very much...

Anyway...let's go back to the topic of the thread.

Originally posted by hamburgerler

I have read through this thread and it appears that you are the person who is driven by emotion, fear.

So proclaims the person posting one liners, and giving no proof whatsoever about his/her claims...

Nice try at making ad hominem attacks and derailing the thread...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by hamburgerler

I have read through this thread and it appears that you are the person who is driven by emotion, fear.

So proclaims the person posting one liners, and giving no proof whatsoever about his/her claims...

Nice try at making ad hominem attacks and derailing the thread...

OK, fine... I should let you clarify your position then.

What is YOUR problem with the scientific method?

What makes it evil?

Originally posted by hamburgerler
OK, fine... I should let you clarify your position then.

What is YOUR problem with the scientific method?

What makes it evil?

Where in the world did I write the scientific method is evil?...

I was clarifying the difference between "teaching" and "indoctrinating" the scientific method...

The scientific method, as pretty much everything else in human history, has evolved and changed...

When a teacher or professor "indoctrinates" or has "indoctrinated" in the scientific method, such teacher or professor has, or is teaching that everything that is believed at that particular time about the scientific method and it's findings is the truth and the only truth.

The scientific method in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Never did I write what you claim in this thread or any other.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by hamburgerler
OK, fine... I should let you clarify your position then.

What is YOUR problem with the scientific method?

What makes it evil?

Where in the world did I write the scientific method is evil?...

I was clarifying the difference between "teaching" and "indoctrinating" the scientific method...

The scientific method, as pretty much everything else in human history, has evolved and changed...

When a teacher or professor "indoctrinates" or has "indoctrinated" in the scientific method, such teacher or professor has, or is teaching that everything that is believed at that particular time about the scientific method and it's findings is the truth and the only truth.

The scientific method in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Never did I write what you claim about my comments in this thread or any other.

edit on 31-5-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.

I fail to see how anyone can the scientific method can be transmitted through indoctrination.

If anything, the scientific allows people to test information for themselves giving them the freedom from authoritative academia.

The scientific method will not change, it is a method, like baking a loaf of bread, or finding out how much currency you have in your wallet.

It is a very bizarre thing to be suspicious of to tell you the truth.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
So far it doesn't sound bad right?

Right.

So, it is starting to sound fishy no?

No.