What does "choice" mean to you?

Hey, all you ATSers.....

I was on a thread recently, and I'm not naming it, because it was about something (love) that I would want to do no damage to at all. But this thread got me thinking, quite a lot, besides my personal experiences recently, which would only prejudice the topic....speaking in "legalese...." and this should, I think, be something considered without who posed it, or even the experiences that provoked the question....

Having said all that crap, what I am getting at here, is "choice."

I see a lot of threads here, and ideaology about personal choice, responsibility, and at the same time...a lot of threads about our lack of freedom, our state of slavery, as a people, as a society Both cannot logically exsit together, concurrenty..
So, I wonder a bit,,,,,,no quite a lot, really about this.... And I'm thinking everyone here must think quite about it, as well. You see, we run the gamuit of threads here. from political issues--which in MHO, make absolutely no difference, because your vote is not a choice, and this long ceased to be, if it ever was, what we accept as any definition of democracy. They used to call this country: "The great experiment..."

I think that should be enough to explain where we are and what is going on. If you are still investing your time and thought in the political process, and whatever you are showed what is happening on television, then this thread is not for you. For, I am not of the ilk, and we have many threads on this site about how ridiculous and suspect that information is.....and many of us who have been alive quite a long while, have only lived to see the same happen again and again, whether it be "real" or not.

And when I speak of this, I am talking about holography, fakery, or absolute reality: done repetitively, in the interest of controlling the population, creating a "singularity," which really means to me, giving up your individuality, ever since Hitler, and WWII, at least, and we have never escaped those camps. So, here we are in the American Fourth Reich.....an extension of that intention......

In a sense, I should not have even brought that into this thread, for it's really not about that. I ASSUME that already. Just letting you know where I stand, what i think I know, for we all "think" we know what's up, don't we.....and yes, I think I know that, too, whether we can agree on it or not.

Regardless of all that, for there are many layers to what I speak of here, from science to religion, to history, to repetitive history, to erase certain other histories , and having said all that.....it is my belief, very strongly, that long ago, we built and reached a computer, holographic, sentience that in today's world acts as a screen, of sorts, to keep many from seeing, what is underneath......while the definition and concept of "humanity" is constantly controlled and undermined, giving way to the superiority of "trans-humanism," that the machine that man built and can now combine with himself is akin to his being God, that ass@@hole who limited people, and said Eve was damned for eating that apple and therefore, wanting to KNOW.......
And all up in the middle of all that are many religions, and texts, mutually exclusive, totally designed to divide and conquer us as humans, so that we never quit fighting, and shedding blood over that whole concept. And all the while the Chistian vision, which is combined and borrowed from several other texts that already pre-existed it, are about this Man, Christ, who died for our sins, and then lived again, and promised a return, which many wait for......

While politically, anyone can see that this would be the "perfect" way to convince a certain amount of the population that they should go along with technologies which make the innocent guilty and the guilty innocent, and die for it, for that they may be in Christ's image......

Let me say right here, and I think it is obvious from what I have already written, that I do not trust any text: Talmud, Quran, Bible, etc.....for we have long passed a time where things have been erased, lost, added, subtracted, etc.......but I do believe in something: it is called "Righteousness."

And what I mean by that, besides whatever you apply to it, is I will not live my life in a way that hurts, or takes advantage of, simply for the sake of my own desires, another's life......

this is a very important concept, for it has much to do with what we call in this country, our constitutionality and bill of rights. It has to do, very simply, with holding others hostage and SLAVERY.

Now, I don't think any of these concepts are anything new to anyone reading or writing or thinking or searching here, on this site, or many others, for that matter, searching for answers, trying and struggling to be free, and tired, so tired of trying to assimilate whether they are being lied to with the latest tragedy and define if it is a faked strategy......


Meanwhile, we have the whole "alien" thing. And what I mean by that, is, how do we even know where we are?
We used to judge time by a radioactive degeneration of matter.....
That isn't what we really judge time by anymore, and even if we did, we have information about neutrinos, our inability to track or judge their effect that could possibly throw Einstein's theory of space/time relativity judged on those concepts right out the door......

Everything we think we "know" physics and science wise, really, is totally theorum based, meaning it is simply THEORY. And the biggest news with that, is if we WANT that to be the reality, instead of the theory, we can just WISH IT SO, if enough of us concentrate upon that.........


Now, I've gotten really far away from the simple proposition of what I wanted to propose in this thread, so now I'm coming back to it, very simply, having laid out the "environment," so to speak, which is important, in judging what is choice, and what is controlled.

For the two cannot exist together.

Having said that, I do not believe in the "necessity of duality," whereby you must experience pain to know the lack thereof..... Sorry, I don't believe in that. I know most do, and understand their life experience through that lens, but I have enough memory as a youngin', that I never needed to burn my hand on the fire to understand it would hurt, and therefore, that NOT burning my hand was JOY. To me, that's the purest crap we have been fed, and created a paradigm that is completely false, that most of us rely upon and live through, daily, that guarantees the torture and pain and judgement and CONTROL of individual lives to make sure we accept whatever has that control over us......

Choice.. Back to the matter at hand.


If I am a woman, tied up and raped, did I choose that? If I am an abused child, did I choose that, and create that with my own karma and desire?
Why do we suffer like this? Why do the defenseless suffer like this, only to have websites like this where people propose that whatever you are suffering, you chose that reality?????


I do not propose anything here to "hate" on anyone..... I want everyone to think a great deal about what I propose....and what it means when you try to tell someone going through hell what their "choices" were and what pain is, and that they chose it......

I want you to think about, and inform us all, and discuss what "alien" even means. We are told we live in a certain galaxy, just as we accept what we are told

I posted what I wrote so far, because frankly, I have tried and tried to edit what I was writing, and this computer will absolutely not let me. If it put the cursor, or retype something in a certain place, it jumps to another paragraph, so please forgive if it doesn't follow for you. I have tried, and tried to rewrite and edit this idea of mine repetitively, and in my experience, it is just like my life experience, when I try to do something different to change the outcome, where I am told I chose what I currently experience, the writing either disappears, or the cursor takes me back to somewhere indefineable without re=reading over and over and over.....



And that is part of my point about choise, technology, what is happening or not, to reach a judgement, or a CULL of us as beings for that very judgement.......because something is feeding upon us, either emotionally or realistically, and using all of us, and the very best parts of us, to achieve what some goal is way beyond whatever we are.


Which brings us back to what I mentioned about "alien." We don't even know, really, where we are, IN an iron dome, in the Goldilocks Galaxy or Andromeda, whatever, or just hell. We think we think indepently, but what even is that, now???? You think you are human, or do you? And so if we don't know really where we are, and what we are, then what the hell IS alien, anyway????

Choice? You think you are living a life that is free, and you have all these choices, even if they are poison????
Sorry.. I don't think any of us really have any. Even if you believe in Karma, or fate, which are very alike, then choice, if the control I describe is present, is totally non existent.

The only possible "choice" anyone, whomever and whatever they are, is REACTION, to what happens to you, without you're deserving or incurring it.....
Think about that for a moment.......it really means you have very little choice. You may not even know where are what you are. And you may be blackmailed, with anything or anyone you care about. Is blackmail a choice?
Really? If you have 5% of the information that is true, and you are given a "choice," is that REALLY a choice?
Did you choose your family? Did you choose your childhood? Did you choose many, many things, along the way???

And this is very, very important.....for we speak a lot here, about freedom. Everything alive wants to be free. But there is no freedom without personal responsibility.....but if technology, or gangstalking or science or eugenics or JUST THE IDEA OF THAT hijacks your life, where was the CHOICE?????\\\


I welcome any discussion on this.
Tetra50

yes choice is an illusion and a lie.

Originally posted by Sinder
yes choice is an illusion and a lie.

IF, and I say iF, we are right,my friend.......it is all important to us in our private lives, to the socieo-economic ecology, and evolution of this planet, this species, this EVERYTHING we live through second by second, our responses to it, and what becomes of the future, the past, which seems to have just melded together.....and it is MHO, that this is how this is accomplished.....

Thanks for reading and your reply.
Tetra50

Your life is a reflection of your perspective on it. If you go around seeing things as being terrible, they inherently will be.

Good things will happen to you, bad things will happen to you. Hell, horrible things will happen to you. You still have the right to decide who you are, or let what happens to you make that decision for you.

Happiness is a choice. That's all it is.

Life throws incredibly ugly things at each and every one of us. Only we as individuals can toss them aside and make the person we want to be, or succumb to the pain.

You are stronger than you can even imagine. You need only realize you are not, and have never been, a victim.

Originally posted by mrwupy
Your life is a reflection of your perspective on it. If you go around seeing things as being terrible, they inherently will be.

Good things will happen to you, bad things will happen to you. Hell, horrible things will happen to you. You still have the right to decide who you are, or let what happens to you make that decision for you.

Happiness is a choice. That's all it is.

Life throws incredibly ugly things at each and every one of us. Only we as individuals can toss them aside and make the person we want to be, or succumb to the pain.

You are stronger than you can even imagine. You need only realize you are not, and have never been, a victim.

hey, mrwupy:

I have to say I absolutely LOVE your perspective on this issue. And perhaps, it is true for some of us.


Unfortunately, I have found it not to be so in my life, for there was a time when my perspective was totally different as well as my behavior as a result of that perspective; however, the results remained the same......
But each of us has our own path to walk, and I definitively believe and respect each of us for that, and that path we have had to walk, or even chose to, for whatever reasons.

Regardless, I appreciate your reading the thread and participating, and your reply gave me hope, and that, these days, my friend, is very, very hard for me to come by.....
Peace, pleasure, success and happiness be with you on your journey....
Tetra50

reply to post by mrwupy


That's about it, but the problem is that we never 'think' about things internal to us, we only react to them.

It's a bit like emotions being compared to the licking of a flame. It burns, it is fleeting, and it's constant. We are forever chasing away the flame to find comfort, but no sooner we extinguish one flame, another arises from within and we're at it again, struggling endlessly to beat the flame.

It's the source of the flame that needs to be fixed. That is where we never look. And if we try to find the source, often we can't. And we notice the flames are less. As if by defining the internal struggle we can realise it and see it is not as all encompassing as we felt it was.

How you treat the internal reality, how you accept it or reject it, affects the sub conscious far more than we realise.

Often a thought can be so fleeting that we do not even realise we've had it, but the emotions it brings can last for days. And we can't understand why. And instead of finding out why, we seek to find comfort externally or by other means... meaning the flames will constantly flicker and remind us of 'something'...

The canvas we never see holds the paint that colours the world we live in.

And you're right, it is a choice. You can choose to struggle against the things that are impenetrable or inevitable. Which is futility defined, and wears you down till you're exhausted and give up. Or you can choose to see things as new experiences, even if they're old things. What can you take from it.

But this is not to say that you can just simply tell someone to choose to feel happy. Words do not change a mind. Thoughts do, and unless someone can comprehend the internal struggle and realise that we've been doing it all wrong from the start, they'll never understand, and can get annoyed at such simplistic words.

Originally posted by Sinder
yes choice is an illusion and a lie.

you made a choice to make an ATS account. Is that an illusion and a lie?

Just because we live in world where yes we are kinda like modern day slaves. We do have choices.

Originally posted by winofiend
reply to post by mrwupy

 

That's about it, but the problem is that we never 'think' about things internal to us, we only react to them.

It's a bit like emotions being compared to the licking of a flame. It burns, it is fleeting, and it's constant. We are forever chasing away the flame to find comfort, but no sooner we extinguish one flame, another arises from within and we're at it again, struggling endlessly to beat the flame.

It's the source of the flame that needs to be fixed. That is where we never look. And if we try to find the source, often we can't. And we notice the flames are less. As if by defining the internal struggle we can realise it and see it is not as all encompassing as we felt it was.

How you treat the internal reality, how you accept it or reject it, affects the sub conscious far more than we realise.

Often a thought can be so fleeting that we do not even realise we've had it, but the emotions it brings can last for days. And we can't understand why. And instead of finding out why, we seek to find comfort externally or by other means... meaning the flames will constantly flicker and remind us of 'something'...

The canvas we never see holds the paint that colours the world we live in.

And you're right, it is a choice. You can choose to struggle against the things that are impenetrable or inevitable. Which is futility defined, and wears you down till you're exhausted and give up. Or you can choose to see things as new experiences, even if they're old things. What can you take from it.

But this is not to say that you can just simply tell someone to choose to feel happy. Words do not change a mind. Thoughts do, and unless someone can comprehend the internal struggle and realise that we've been doing it all wrong from the start, they'll never understand, and can get annoyed at such simplistic words.

Hey winofiend:

Had some wine tonight, matter of fact,

I often read your posts, and am either in total disagreement or stumped. And your avatars always disturb me. Just thought I'd start off with that segue between us. Not laughing out loud, but inside a little. I really mean that. You often make me uncomfortable with your replies. However, having said that, I am in awe of your response and wisdom here. Not that you don't show it in all those other replies.. It's just they unsettle me, just like your avatars, but I also am aware you intend that. Wink. (We are always better informed when we understand who we are dealing with and where they are coming from, no matter how uncomfortable that may sometimes make us.)

I couldn't have stated the human condition of what I refer to in this thread better than you have, and yet I disagree, entirely, on the "choice."\
For I do not think we really have much of one. Perhaps once in a great while, but truly only in our reaction to another's choice.

This is my whole point about the information we are "fed," which may or may not be true at all, and that we have no control over that, and it informs how we perceive and react, and our reactions, trully, are the only choice we DO have.....but if they are based upon incomplete information, or blackmail, a choice which is no choice at alll--such as, say, someone puts a gun to my head and says say this to this group of people or I will kill your child, and you know, all at the same time, that if you contribute to getting this group of people to accept a certain "order" that your child's life will then be worth nothing, really, then what kind of choice is that, and is it really choice at all?

And then let's say, that was only 10% of the information available....that there was a whole other group out there prepared for all of that, and what it would cause, or not, and you told there were......see my point?

I'm not really talking about esoteric choices; I am talking about hard core, someone ties you up and rapes you, or abuses you as a child....and obviously, there are NO choices involved there, whatsoever.

But you did nail, dead on, the point I was trying to make in another thread that prompted me to write this one: which is, we suffer as humans....it is part of our inherent, living condition. I do not, however, believe it a necessary duality, to know joy (pain is to understand lack thereof); rather, I believe this is simply an excuse by sociopaths that are highly successful at controlling those who wish to control nothing but to experience life to torture those who will not assert control over other living things.

And the other part of that you nailed is, we never get to the root of our true issues that have us spinning daily, just seeking respite from the condition of being alive......because of what I just described. After all, NOT getting to that root gives people jobs in a capatalistic economy attempting to solve given and encouraged

con't....
problems. the Hagelian situation: problem, reaction, solution, which funds our way of life.....based upon MONEY, which, in and of itself, is worthless.....just as all these attempts at treating symptoms instead of getting to the root causes of WHY WE HURT, and HURT EACH OTHER........and carry on in much the same, sad, vein. While people write threads about all we have to do is love each other and think good thoughts.....


Sorry, if that's a little callous. Some of us know what it is to be tied to the bedpost, so to speak, and it wasn't really a lot of fun once we were bleeding. And this is a reality, a very sad reality of the world we live in....and we are no closer to solving it than we ever were, IMHO. Nor do we really address it.

And it is a very complicated dynamic. We really do not, most of us, choose to be that victim, but there are a whole lifetime, and perhaps other lifetimes and other unresolved, old conflicts, that result in what happens, and the cycle of pain we are born into, and ofttimes cannot overcome......

Thanks for your wisdom and participation.
Tetra50

Originally posted by solizer

Originally posted by Sinder
yes choice is an illusion and a lie.

you made a choice to make an ATS account. Is that an illusion and a lie?

Just because we live in world where yes we are kinda like modern day slaves. We do have choices.

That's so simplistic a reply as to the depth of the OP, I choose, yes, CHOOSE, not to answer you.....
If you can come up with something more thoughtful than that, perhaps I'll entertain a response. How bout this...
You chose, as well, to make the same account......Does that mean you chose to overlook purposefully all the implications outlined here, or were you just delivered that way?

How about it? There is no freedom without personal responsibility, right?

Do we really have choice? Because that is the essence of personal responsibilitry, isn't it? And if we have that, then we are, in fact, free, are we not, and therefore, have choice, right?

I'm still looking for topical discussion on this issue, as this is a place where conspiracy theory means, inherently, through lies and misinformation, that we may not have choice.....or do we?


Do you have choice as a slave?

Do you really have choice if you are misinformed, mislead?

Originally posted by winofiend

But this is not to say that you can just simply tell someone to choose to feel happy. Words do not change a mind. Thoughts do, and unless someone can comprehend the internal struggle and realise that we've been doing it all wrong from the start, they'll never understand, and can get annoyed at such simplistic words.

You my friend are a genius. Very few people on ATS have ever stopped me in my tracks and made me just think about a response I have received along the way.

You are absolutely right. I will never change the path of another with my simplistic words. I will never raise up, educate, or make a fellow soul sing with my simple thoughts and ideas.

Still, that is all I have. I've nothing more to offer. It's the only reason I'm here.

I don't care if you've hurt another, I care that you can understand hurt, yours and mine, and grow from the experience.

I don't care how many times you've been abducted by aliens. I care that you can look each of us in the face, share your thoughts and reveal what you know. Without shame, without remorse, and with the strength to withstand those who doubt you.

I don't care if you find the thoughts of others simplistic. I care that you can find ideas and growth in the simplistic words of others.

I care not one bit if you find me a fool. I care only in the discussion, and what souls we may touch in the following of it.

Love and light to you my friend,

wupy

reply to post by mrwupy


I am happy to have provided any opportunity for you to find your "christ," if it helps you proceed through this madness and mayhem......

But you can both leave me out of the discussion now, truly, No sarcasm. So glad I could hook you up with what is meaningful and resonates with and for you......