Agents Involved in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Arrest "FALL" Out of Helicopter and Die

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The statement gave few details regarding the deaths of Special Agents Christopher Lorek and Stephen Shaw, other than to say the helicopter encountered unspecified difficulties and the agents fell a “significant distance.”

Ok, is it me or does this seem....convenient? It reminds me of Seal Team 6. Can't leave any loose ends now can we. Of course this is all speculation on my part but never the less, very bizarre.

Ooohh they just fall out randomly??

Two members of the FBI’s elite counterterrorism unit died Friday while practicing how to quickly drop from a helicopter to a ship using a rope, the FBI announced Monday in a statement.

(Op Link)

According to that, they were H.R.T. members and died in a training accident, practicing fast rope insertion onto a ship from a helicopter. One of the more dangerous things to do, even in training.

HRT is like the SEAL Teams, as I've read about them. They train like they fight. 100% and for real. People die in real actions and they die in training...when training is as real life as it's possible to make it.

We can just retire people who are in high profile arrests and raids...or accept that the positions which put them in those high profile positions in the first place are ones that have a pretty high attrition rate by accident and just natural death by duty hazards. These guys seem to have roped a little TOO fast.

* If you've seen Blackhawk Down, it sounds like they were doing precisely what that movie depicted the first casualty of the Battle for Mogadishu coming from. Losing grip on a rope for insertion, and inserting by gravity alone.

* Ouch.. hadn't noticed this topic is actually ON the New Topics page as a "Newest Flag" trending item with another thread.. My bad for reply before check.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Come on Wrabbit. You really don't see anything suspicious about this at all? Maybe I'm becoming jaded, but when I see people who are involved in potentially politically useful "terrorism" schemes come up dead a few months later, I just cannot get past it. Government corruption is in our faces every single day now. I can no longer refuse to see through the thinly veiled lies that come with it.

Sorry about that... A rare but real hazard of working across multiple displays with multiple boxes open at once. Err... Thankfully a rare thing to happen. (wakes up a bit).

Now then.. Oh, yeah, the FBI agents who died in high tempo training.

Well, No .. I don't see anything particularly odd about it. Tragic. yes.. Odd? No. What is the usual HRT attrition rate for training accidents? I'd guess a few a year, at least. Some of the training I read about was unbelievable. Heck the opening "Gut Check" evolution I read in detail for an HRT training book was enough and they called it FUN. It was jumping from the top portion of a moored cargo ship, into the water below. Well, the charts I saw growing up, put 80 feet at the bone breaking level for hitting water. 100+ feet as not survivable in most cases. Water is like concrete if hit from altitude or speed ....and that jump was the HRT 'Gut Check' event.

I'll never understand the ULTRA Alpha male culture that populates groups like HRT and the SEALs. I respect it, deeply...but will never understand it. I won't question the fact they occasionally die while pursuing it though. It's never a good thing...but fully expected by statistical history.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Take a Statistics class as your local community college. Of course the odds of a human eventually dying from some cause are 100%, but the chances are infinitely slimmer that one of those particular officers involved in such a rare occurance as chasing alleged terrorist bombers around a major US city by accidentally falling out of a helicopter. Let alone two. Let's be realistic here. Its a coverup.

damage control,no loose ends.

reply to post by Urantia1111


How do you figure it's a statistical anomaly? These two were in the same arrest...which makes them likely to be in the same element of an HRT response unit. Hence..they train together and training never ends just because they had a really good outcome to something. Training goes on..and their training is extreme even by special standards.

So... Two guys serve together, fight together, train together and..sadly, take a fast rope together and slip together. Dying together. There is the makings of a Greek tragedy in there somewhere..but not much mystery to me. Are we even suggesting these agents would have been in a position to know something or seen something of interest or is it just because they happened to be involved with a case the whole North Eastern Law Enforcement community was deep into?

Errr and…..

I know this is sad in so far as it is sad that two members of HRT have died but I really do fail to see any conspiracy.

ohhh no i forgot according to ATS there are no such thing as accidents

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


What can I say? Your criteria for suspicion is in a different area code from mine. Yes I find it statistically improbable that two officers linked to a false flag bombing have now fallen to their deaths a couple months on. If you don't, I wish you the best and I will torment your utopia no longer.

ETA I see OtherSide has chimed in. Thereby supplying even more evidence that this story stinks.

ETA2 When was the last time an officer fell to his death out of a helicopter during this training exercise?

Well what are the odd's.

Why just these two members dead?

Come on guys if this don't smell something else must be motivating you to deny this.

reply to post by Urantia1111

false flag bombing

Well, as the back country mechanic might say 'There's yer problem!"

You're assuming as a forgone conclusion, a set of facts I still don't consider anything remotely like fact. Was Boston "false flag" (I'd LOVE to hear that term DEFINED...by the way. It's so badly over-used, it means just about anything depending on who is using it)? Well, I don't know if Boston was false anything....

If we assume it was all a nefarious plot by evil government agents to...kill 3 people. Then, I suppose we would tend to see evil, nefarious plots in whatever came to happen to every man who was even peripherally involved in it. Like the string of accidents and just pure natural occurrence to follow the participants at all levels of the Kennedy Assassination event. That one I certainly DO think stinks to high heaven...tho what flavor of stink, I've never really been sure of.

Boston though? Well, indeed... If we're starting from different planets of thought and I'm not at the point of seeing it all as a production made-up for our viewing and political purposes? We never can see clear on the other part of how two HRT agents can die in high tempo training...without help from more nefarious plots.

reply to post by Urantia1111

ETA I see OtherSide has chimed in. Thereby supplying even more evidence that this story stinks.

And what exactly do you mean by that.

HRT is like any other comparable unit, they have deaths during training exercises, it happens.

HRT is the only full time domestic counterterrorism unit in America, their creation was inspired by Delta Force and they train full time. Accidents are bound to happen.

Please note.
Other members are not the topic of this thread.

Go After the Ball, Not the Player!

Originally posted by Urantia1111

ETA2 When was the last time an officer fell to his death out of a helicopter during this training exercise?

These are the second and third deaths by falling out of a helicopter. The first was in 1986, when James McCallister, also of the HRT was killed after falling from a helicopter at Quantico.

Fast roping is incredibly dangerous. There is nothing but your gloves and your boots holding you onto the rope. If the helicopter is hit by a wind gust and rocks, or suffers some kind of upset, it can quite easily shake you off the rope, or if you don't have a good grip on the rope you can just slip off it on the way down. At the altitude you fast rope from, falling is more often than not fatal.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000What is the usual HRT attrition rate for training accidents? I'd guess a few a year, at least.

Surprisingly low apparently:

The episode, announced Sunday by the F.B.I., was the first time that an agent has died in the line of duty since December 2011. In the past 12 years, six others have been killed. The F.B.I. has about 14,000 agents.

NY Times

reply to post by Brocade


Indeed.. They are better than I thought in terms of a low accident rate. Given the nature of their training, that's doing very well. The FBI may have around 14,000 people but the number of HRT, which is what I gather these two were training as a part of, is much smaller. I was surprised to see how few, actually.

In 2007, the Bureau initiated its Tactical Recruiting Program to identify and increase the potential number of candidates for the team. About 80 percent of HRT candidates already have tactical proficiencies from police work or military training. Once identified, candidates enter the Bureau as field agents and serve two to three years before trying out for the team. The recruiting program has brought in 150 tactically experienced agents to the Bureau, and approximately 10 percent of them are currently HRT members. Not all agents brought into the program serve on the team, but many who do not serve on the SWAT team. In all, there are currently more than 1,200 SWAT and HRT personnel in the FBI.

(Source: FBI Official Site on HRT History

The picture on the bottom of that page happens to be of fast rope training for anyone who hasn't seen precisely what this is. It's insane..is what I call it.

Originally posted by Urantia1111
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

What can I say? Your criteria for suspicion is in a different area code from mine. Yes I find it statistically improbable that two officers linked to a false flag bombing have now fallen to their deaths a couple months on. If you don't, I wish you the best and I will torment your utopia no longer.

ETA I see OtherSide has chimed in. Thereby supplying even more evidence that this story stinks.

ETA2 When was the last time an officer fell to his death out of a helicopter during this training exercise?

edit on 23-5-2013 by Urantia1111 because: (no reason given)

They didn't "fall out of a helicopter".

They were dangling off the bottom of the helicopter, on a rope. Fast lining. Sort of like rappeling without a wall or a carabiner, nothing but a good pair of gloves and some gonads only generally you go as fast as you can manage without breaking things when you hit the bottom. You can also do this with a smaller line, a Swiss seat and a carabiner like the 101st does, and it's a LOT safer and more controlled, especially with a big ruck, but it's a tad slower than just falling down the rope with gloves on.

Now, the question you have to ask is, 'what exactly happened here', the article is written in 'implication' and it's short on explicit fact. It SOUNDS like the helo pulled up suddenly while they were fast roping, they went off the end of the rope and aiiiIIIIEEEEeeee.... kerplat! instead of zipping into the drink and letting go of the rope.

It's not clear if the helo shook them loose or pulled up suddenly and they went off the end, or dropped straight down and slammed them onto the deck. I've read a number of the stories and they're all sort of fact free, other than to state something happened at the helo end and the guys 'fell a significant distance', but any of the three possibilities could fit that awful description.

Anyway, FRIES kills people all the friggin time.