Hey folks across the pond (uk) lets have a talk

Ok I will make this thread short and sweet since I accidentally hit the enter button, but I have been noticing things on ATS like armed police oh my god and some muslim butchering a guy with a meat cleaver.

Anyhow I dont mean to make this a thread where we butt heads but instead seek solutions.

I read another thread about the bbc not reporting right, which in all honesty happens a lot here in the us but you guys have a tv tax so that the bbc can be the governments mouthpiece and run 24/7 without advertisements.

Ok before you post more assanine comments I am going to post and then refresh so stay tuned.


Ok no assanine comments so far so good.

Anyways like I said not trying to make this a us verse uk thread so mods act accordingly.

Anyhow, in the US all police are armed all the time and they are a crime deterrent, however some police here do not act within the law, most americans especially myself are aware of that. But having armed police is not a bad thing if anything it is a good thing but hey, you should be armed too.

But thats not the point really... I am a scotts irish and an American so our traditions may have alot in common and yet vary for instance, this is not a scotts irish thing but an american thing. American waiters and waitresses make 2.13 an hour. I happened to be at an english pub and watched a brit leave less than 10% tip. His friend corrected his mistake and it made me glad.

Anyhow, and no offense but I think Brittain is headed down the wrong path and sad to say that America is following the lead. The TV tax has been introduced recently in most of the gun control states.

As a brit? Do you feel it is really that bad for your police to be armed? Aside from corruption of course because that is everywhere. And do you feel as a brit or an American there is a middle road?

I dont personally but I think there are lessons that both sides can be learned from each other as long as we are being honest.

reply to post by txinfidel


What exactly are you asking? Your post kinda jumped around.

reply to post by SubTruth


Yeah sorry I hit the enter button and accidentally posted a blank post.

But just to add a little meat to the subject UK is a surveillance state and US an armed state trying to follow the surveillance blueprint of Great Brittain.

Anyhow we always get this ADT sales people in my neighborhood and for those of you who dont know they sell home surveillance which now can dim your lights and be used with a smart phone. And to those people I always tell them I am armed and always home and that is my surveillance system at which point they get lost. But to be honest the thought of those people watching over my home makes me nervous because if we did have ADT the minute we left on vacation, someone would realize that and then we'd have some ADT employees ransacking our home.

So is a surveillance state better than an armed populace or is there any road in between I guess?

And as a side note having a police that were not armed seems alien to me and would not make me feel safe. I think that I would feel less safe and seeking some kind of firearm for personal protection. Not that us americans just resort to firearms. I have been on the top and the bottom of many a fist fights not once was a firearm used, I did get stabbed in the neck though once.

But also keep in mind that the police here are not elected but sherifs and constables are so there is quite a difference usually when there is corruption it is the police however not to say that it does not happen with sheriffs.

Anyhow, having a police without arms seems completely alien to me like I was visiting another planet on the twighlight zone.

Anyways all thoughts are welcome I promise not to bite too hard. As much as we have in common I still find it odd how much we don't have in common.

Oh boy, here we go.

This outta be good.

I can always count on ATS for up-to-the-minute news, the latest conspiracies, scientific discoveries, fellowship and camaraderie, and last but not least... chest puffing and fist-a-cuffs.

First class entertainment all rolled up into one.

Let the games begin...

reply to post by CranialSponge


Well geez...canada

You can participate.. I dont want you to feel left out

reply to post by txinfidel


Oh hell no.

I want no part of this.

I'll just sit on the sidelines and watch from afar with admiration as you try to keep your good intentions from going astray by the 10th poster.

reply to post by CranialSponge


uh oh...dont want to be that person



But as a canadian you must have thoughts one way or the other, but I respect you if you want to stay out of it

reply to post by txinfidel


Honestly I don't have any thoughts on the topic.

Our police are also armed and I always found it odd that the UK police force wasn't. But I don't live there so I have no idea what it's like over there in terms of what works well and what doesn't.

reply to post by CranialSponge


Well that makes two of us.

But damn theres alot of stuff that happens over there in their backyard, its kinda hard to believe. Oops that was the tenth post....whew. Glad thats over.

reply to post by txinfidel


- I accidentally hit the enter button
- you guys have a tv tax
- in the US all police are armed all the time
- I am a scotts irish and an American
- American waiters and waitresses make 2.13 an hour
- both sides can be learned from each other as long as we are being honest.

Sometimes I like to lay underneath my bed and pretend I'm a carrot.

reply to post by BoogieMan911


Thanks boogieman.

Sometimes I lay in bed doing the star position.

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

Well that makes two of us.

But damn theres alot of stuff that happens over there in their backyard, its kinda hard to believe. Oops that was the tenth post....whew. Glad thats over.

edit on 23-5-2013 by txinfidel because: (no reason given)

Let's not forget too that our countries have guns as a part of our culture a lot more than theirs does, so if there's not as many people packing, maybe it's just not a necessity for their police to be.

It's probably hard for us to understand because we've never known any different ?


Okay maybe not by the tenth post, but surely before the end of the second page this thread is going to become a pissing match.

I am mulling over how to respond as sometimes I really wished we (as in Britain and America) spoke two different languages..

Most of my family are American, and when they talk about "home invasions" all I can visualise is a simple burglary, but it isn't is it, and I will admit that I have no idea what it is like to be worried or concerned about things like home invasions. and while I live in the 10th largest urban area in the UK I can not think of a single incident that could fit into the home invasion category.. not that I don't think things like that happen here, or that we are somehow better, but the notion of a home invasion is something out of movies.

For my part when I have been stopped by the police whilst driving I have always got out of my car and met them eye to eye as I can no stand the notion of being looked down on by the police... however I am feeling more and more reluctant to do that given the increasingly armed nature of the police.. as I am sure you can see, that is a shift in the wrong direction, I should not ever feel concerned about the police..

I will bring up an incident the other day, as I say this is the 10th largest urban area in the whole of the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) and we had a shooting, imagine that a shooting in the street in the middle of the night is a massive deal.. it simply does not happen, and the head of the counties Police had to come out and reassure 2 million people that this was an isolated incident.

As to the whole notion of surveillance.. well, locally to me is a town called Lewes, it is actually a county town (small versions of your capitols) and they have had an issue for the last 6 years of people blowing up all their bits of public technology, mostly it has been limited to the large pay and display parking meters, but after in excess of 400 explosions within the towns boundaries they are still no closer (even with CCTV ) to capturing the culprits or even interviewing someone as a suspect... the ones in the high street (main street by the courts, local government HQ and police HQ) has been blown up 26 times... this to me shows just how effective that actual CCTV is at ground level, and the BBC has run articles in a jovial way about the explosions.. I honestly can not imagine American media doing the same, but saying that I hope I am wrong..

What I hope I am trying to convey is the feeling we (as in Britain and America) tend to talk in two different languages and not really understand each other when it comes to this topic, and I think that is the main issue here.. for us a suppressor on a firearm is deemed being considerate, and environmentally sound (noise pollution) and as such is easily available with no additional hoops to jump through.. where as I understand for Americans there are hoops, and the difference lies in the threat perception of these kinds of weapons.. I can for example get a sliding stock 26inch AR15 clone (made with US parts) that has a permanently attached suppressor and no limit to mag, hand grip types or size (we are however stuck single fire or rim fire) yet I have no idea what I would do with such a weapon aside from target shooting.. that's my limit.. there is no need to own such a weapon.

The logic in my head is that if the police where armed the criminals would be more armed and I would want to be armed too, in my mind that is a pretty negative road to go down.

But lets be honest I have no idea of the kind of threats Americans feel they face from their government, the police the criminal fraternity and from wild animals.. I have no idea what it is like, and find it hard to judge Americans on what they feel is appropriate, but on the flip side given that we really do not have those issues and tend to be jammed in here shoulder to shoulder armed police is only going to create deeper tensions..

Personally, my take on the whole issue is that we need to ensure the gangs/criminals have no access to guns, after which it is then possible to remove the need of guns from the police, at which point people will I am sure feel safe enough to choose if they do or do not own any kind of fire arm.

At the moment I have no use for a weapon, the local police have no use for a weapon, and while that is sadly changing I will continue to fight to return things to the status quo, and my ability to get out of my car when stopped by the police and look them level in the eye..

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Thats a lot to wrap my head around, but thanks for posting.

I think most americans dont feel the need to have firearms as much as the media portrays but as the American experiment continues it is a necessity and our culture is framed around it. A lot of people are asleep.

Home invasions do happen but typically in wealthy neighborhoods. For me I do not seek symbols of financial status and live in a middle class neighborhood and dont advertise what I have.

Usually I seek the path of less resistance and usually dont go around armed. It wasnt until lately here in the US people have had an overwhelming desire including myself to be armed. It mainly comes from the intrusion on government rights but also in America there is the dynamic where most people can be armed so there are things like gun free school zones that advertise to criminals.

Thanks for your post Im gonna have to reread it a couple times and make myself more familiar with it.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Oh just wanted to add that too bothers me about the police and I understand what you are saying. Many times when I am pulled over I wish I could stand and look them eye to eye but as I said here in America the police are by no means exempt from corruption and thats part of the problem right there. I should be able to exit my vehicle and talk to a police officer face to face without being fearful of the repercussions however in America if you did that you might be told to get down on your belly with your hands over your head, I wish it wasnt like that but thats the way it is here and the police do take full advantage of that fact sometimes even if you havent done anything wrong.

For me as a Brit and this is only my personal opinion.

Not having armed police is a sign of our confidence in our society as a whole.Sure we have armed response but the key word there is response as opposed to anticipation .

Cody

reply to post by cody599


Well I like that idea in the sense that it is less intimidating to someone who hasn't done anything wrong, I think its a good idea in a sense. But on the other hand I do feel their is a need for them to be armed just in case things go awry.

reply to post by txinfidel


Yer, sorry about that I rather got carried away and thanks for the clarity, it is always good to get closer to the truth of what life is really like elsewhere

I have to admit that the media do have a major role to play in this, while most of my family are American and I have worked with Americans for the best part of 30 years, a lot of my notions of what life might be like in America DO still come mostly from the media, and I am sure it must be similar the other way around and equally warped.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Well I do interact with folks from scottland and uk often in my day to day life but I can not imagine the culture shock when they get here. It would like the culture shock I would have seeing an unarmed police officer only perhaps the opposite.