Was Jesus Christ just a man? Aetheists vs. Christians, Battle Royale

Originally posted by Spawn2001
I never really went to church, I just tried to philosophize myself. I heard aetheists being compared to a " sleeping rock" . How does life happen. With all the millions of different life forms on this planet, just here one day. I was born a catholic but never went to church and oblivious to the teachings. Some might consider me questioning things blasfamy.

Well its pretty simple actually. Since God is made of dark matter and dark energy. And all matter is formed from the energy expelled from black matter and energy All matter in existence living or not came from the same source.

You just happen to get lucky and end up a human. Rather than one of the more corporal manifestations of matter such as sleeping rock or a steaming dog turd. All matter is subject to the 4 physical states liquid light solid and gas.

These are what the confused masses have failed to realize that the mombojumbo about wind fire water and earth stems from these idealologies. They were also aware of an unseen force from which all things came from and what the pillgram or the priest seeks is the light hidden from them. We live in gods belly. Deep in the abyss of darkness. We are bathed and cared for with elemental forces of matter. Creating plants, suns, air, and life.

My point with all this and please try to follow as my mind is like a web. It is all over the place but i see the picture as a whole without the confusion.

It just requires so many aspects to grasp. When black holes crush planets and stars into tiny black balls we can safely assume that within the vasteness of darkness and the trillions of particles in front of your face that within some of these would contain planets that formerly had life. Star systems that probably had their own stories and legends before they were annihlated by god. And the next batch of dark matter and dark energy gets a spin at the wheel of existance.

Some people come back as a rock. Some people don't come back at all. For a very long time. And when they finally do, the chances of them being recreated as a being are slim. your chances are better being sand on a beach than a living entity.

And so, Atheists will remain a sleeping rock. Or waiting in the darkness for seemingly like an eternity. Tho, at that point there is no YOU left. You are pulled apart atom by atom and shatter. And condensed to one single point. All matter. There are worse things than hell my friend. And this would be non existence.

Well everyone else evolves and lives, You are swept away and return as dew in the grass.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

You badly want to believe the Bible isn't true

No sir. I badly want people to stop believing in fantasies, magic, and evil biblical gods.

Why?

What have you to gain from their stopping, or to lose from their continuing?

1. Billions of more rational minds.
2. Wars no longer backed by gods.
3. Smarter children studying science instead of religious fairy tales.
4. No more Islamic extremists killing people.
5. Billions of people becoming more concerned with this life rather than the next life (of which there isn't).
6. No more pedophiles dressed in priestly robes.
7. No more religious organizations getting rich by scamming people out of their money.
8. No more parents refusing medical care for their children because it's a sin or they're waiting for a miracle.
9. People no longer accepting hopeless situations because rewards await them in heaven. Without this belief they might actually do something to better their lives.
10. People giving more respect to the planet instead of thinking it's okay to trash it because some god will fix it for us.

Yes, Jesus was just a man in the physical sense. He was conceived and born into the world just like any other baby before and since. The difference was his "spirit". Whereas we, me and you, must develop/grow our spirit over a lifetime his was pre-existent.

I know many people who are disillusioned with religion are that way mainly due to their exposure to Christianity. Unfortunately it has turned many people off religion in general. But we are in a time when religion is beginning to grow because the church does not have the iron grip it once had.

Another thing to remember about the stories from the Bible is that they were written by a primitive people by today's standards. So many of the stories are very child like in nature. This has turned many modern people off as well. Many stories seem ridiculous. The religious truths are in need of updating.

This was the "crime" that Jesus perpetrated in his day. He tried to free man from the stifling ritual of religion. Religion is not formal prayers or going to church, religion must be lived. It is living life in the lines of the golden rules. Jesus knew this and tried his best to teach that to the common people that.

By thus teaching the people this Jesus put himself in the cross hairs of the Jewish rules who were also the Jewish religious leaders. They felt they had no choice but to either drive Jesus from their domain or kill him. Jesus would not flee, so you know what happened. In those days there was no special significance to being crucified, that was just how capital punishment was carried out in that region.

A back story on the spirit of Jesus. He is a Creator son of God and he is NOT the Eternal Son of God. God did not directly create us, his Son did. God created the foundation for the universe and he created the Eternal Isle of Paradise. The time/space creations were put into being by his corps of Creator Sons. All are trying to duplicate in time what their Father did in Eternity.

As part of the training of a Creator Son they must incarnate in the likeness of their creatures 7 times. From the highest angel type of beings to lowly mortals. His 7th and final bestowal was as a mortal on our world and we know him as Jesus. The creative attributes of his nature cannot be separated from him and thus some miracles did happen.

Always did Jesus try to hide or down play the miracles. Most happened because his divine nature was touched and his mortal nature was unable to restrain it from happening. There is a saying "what the Son desires and the Father wills is" and due to that many people were recipients of healing.

So to get back to the original question, Jesus was both Man and God. When he rose from the grave it was NOT his physical body that people interacted with, it was his spirit. That is why he would vanish from their sight after speaking with believers from Alexandria to Antioch. He was actually showing us what our next phase of existence would be.

We are a type of being that evolves both physically and spiritually. We must experience. We must grow into a spirit, so our next "life" is a state of being between physical and spiritual. We gain nothing from death other than the fact of survival. So we pickup, spiritually, right where we left off.

If anyone is interested in more information please lookup The Urantia Book. (www.urantia.org...)

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

You badly want to believe the Bible isn't true

No sir. I badly want people to stop believing in fantasies, magic, and evil biblical gods.

Why?

What have you to gain from their stopping, or to lose from their continuing?

What's the weather like on your planet, Jigger?

1. Billions of more rational minds.

I am a Christian, who is supremely rational. Kindly prove me irrational.

2. Wars no longer backed by gods.

Give me an example of God endorsing a war, please.

3. Smarter children studying science instead of religious fairy tales.

I have bachelor's and master's degrees in the sciences, despite my Christianity. Do you have such degrees?

4. No more Islamic extremists killing people.

Well, I'd agree with that, though people not believing in the Bible, your original beef, wouldn't change that.

5. Billions of people becoming more concerned with this life rather than the next life (of which there isn't).

Evidence, please, that Christianity teaches that we should not be concerned with this life. The truth of the matter is that, because our next life is predicated on this life, we are very concerned with this life, and how we treat others.

6. No more pedophiles dressed in priestly robes.

Yes, because only priests are pedophiles, right?

Yawn.

As I stated before, the awful facts are in my video.
SPOILER ALERT: Ovid did it.




Stay on groovin' safari,
Tor Hershman

This is a great way to stir up a lot of attention.

This tactic is used by people continuously on ATS.
Recipe to get attention on ATS
1. Attack Religion
2. Declare your superiority
3. Declare the beleivers are idiots.


I'll look for the next version in the coming days from someone else.

reply to post by LastStarfighter

1. Attack Religion

Religion deserves to be attacked, critiqued, deconstructed, and exposed for what it is.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

1. Attack Religion

Religion deserves to be attacked, critiqued, deconstructed, and exposed for what it is.

Why don't you expose it for what is here?

reply to post by LastStarfighter


Not sure what you mean. On this thread? I'm fairly confident people can look at my profile to see my NUMEROUS threads doing just that. This thread isn't mine, and it would be off-topic to derail it with an expose' here.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by jiggerj

No sir. I badly want people to stop believing in fantasies, magic, and evil biblical gods.

Why?

What have you to gain from their stopping, or to lose from their continuing?

1. Billions of more rational minds.

You cannot make an irrational mind rational by simply feeding it your own brand of fairy tale.

2. Wars no longer backed by gods.

So who do you prefer YOUR wars to be backed by? You know they are going to happen anyhow, right? Regardless of the claimed "backer"?

3. Smarter children studying science instead of religious fairy tales.

I studied physics at university AND "religious fairy tales". I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not anyone's dummy, either. So you prefer your intelligentsia to be unidimensional, one sided, and lacking in depth?

4. No more Islamic extremists killing people.

I've got to give you that one - I just haven't decided yet who I want to replace them as the world's stone cold killers. Screaming "allahu akbar" when performing a decapitation is getting old. I'm guessing, since people are people and political Islam kills over it's political aspiration rather than it's religion, that it will just be the same old killers with brand new labels, just to make folks like you feel better about it all. The labels matter a lot more than what's inside 'em, eh?

5. Billions of people becoming more concerned with this life rather than the next life (of which there isn't).

Every living being I know is concerned with this life - else they would have starved to death by now. I don't know if there is a next life or not, but since you have made the bold statement that there isn't, I'd like to see your proof to back that contention up.

6. No more pedophiles dressed in priestly robes.

What do you prefer your pedophiles to wear? I prefer mine to wear a noose, but that comes after their transgression, while you are simply arguing about what they should wear going into it. Sad to see someone who doesn't mind pedophilia, as long as they're dressed right.

7. No more religious organizations getting rich by scamming people out of their money.

Here's a random thought - man up and stop giving them your money. Problem solved. Allow other folks the right to determine what to do with THEIR own money - YOU doing their thinking for them is no better at all than having "some preacher" do it. Let folks think for themselves, if they can, and at least let them try if they can't.

Since I was probably around 10, I have not belonged to any religious organization that so much as passed a collection plate, so it can be done, and they are out there, if you have the 'nads to look. I don't go to ANY Church, Masjid, or Synagogue now, but the one I was raised in did not even pay their preachers - thought it went against the Bible to take money for preaching or helping folks.

8. No more parents refusing medical care for their children because it's a sin or they're waiting for a miracle.
9. People no longer accepting hopeless situations because rewards await them in heaven. Without this belief they might actually do something to better their lives.
10. People giving more respect to the planet instead of thinking it's okay to trash it because some god will fix it for us.

I was going to respond to all of these individually as well, but I realized a collective response would suffice for these AND the other objections above, so I'll just put it here to cover all of these last "points". What all of this tells me is that you think it's all about you. You seem to think that preacher types tell people what to do and control their lives, and you believe it should be YOU taking control of their lives instead. You don't want their lives to be different or improve (only care what pedophiles wear, not that they exist at all, only care what phrase murderers shout when they murder, not that they murder in the first place, only care what excuse you want to pin on a war, not that it's happening in the first place, etc...) - you just think it should be YOU telling them what to do rather than some preacher some where.

You seem to care less about "religion" than you do your own lack of ability to control others.

Sad.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

1. Attack Religion

Religion deserves to be attacked, critiqued, deconstructed, and exposed for what it is.

This I believe.

If it CAN be successfully assailed and deconstructed, it should be, because if it can be, then it is from no deity.

Most (not all, of course) of the religious folks I know are the biggest critics of their own beliefs. They seem to feel that they need to know if they're on the right track or not, and the best way to do that is to ask questions of it to see if they can find a chink in the armor.

reply to post by Spawn2001


If Jesus was God (which I believe) then what does this say about the true nature of the human being in creation, that's the question that it raises, and why would anyone wish to reduce the stature of the human being from that intended in the fullness of time and history even from the origin of the creation?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

Not sure what you mean. On this thread? I'm fairly confident people can look at my profile to see my NUMEROUS threads doing just that. This thread isn't mine, and it would be off-topic to derail it with an expose' here.

I about discovering truth, not researching you or your profile. Good bye

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

1. Attack Religion

Religion deserves to be attacked, critiqued, deconstructed, and exposed for what it is.

This I believe.

If it CAN be successfully assailed and deconstructed, it should be, because if it can be, then it is from no deity.

Most (not all, of course) of the religious folks I know are the biggest critics of their own beliefs. They seem to feel that they need to know if they're on the right track or not, and the best way to do that is to ask questions of it to see if they can find a chink in the armor.

I totally beleive you beleive it. Your avatar correctly portrays a bitter, violent, and cynical person. I respect your views, respect the ones of others.

reply to post by LastStarfighter

I about discovering truth, not researching you or your profile. Good bye

And you talk about "respect". :shk:

This site is big, and the forums are not difficult to access and read. My views are right there for everyone to see. If you choose not to look at them, then who is being disrespectful and unwilling to discover what other people's truths are?

The OP in this thread asked a specific question, and it would be disrespectful of me to derail it with my own views.

My opinion is that Jesus was a man with an advanced soul who learned and taught mystic mastery. I believe he studied in India during his "lost years", and learned how to be a 'guru' or 'yogi' or whatever. I believe he recovered from the crucifixion with the help of his friends, and perhaps some "Divine" ability to heal himself. I believe he then exiled himself to India, lived to be a very old man, and he is buried in Kashmir. His name there was Isa.

Having said that, I'm not an atheist, but I can present you with an article that explains very well why atheists are angry, and I suggest you read it:
9 Questions That Atheists Might Find Insulting (And the Answers)
There is a thread already in progress about it here. Don't expect people to do your homework for you.

Originally posted by LastStarfighter

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LastStarfighter

 

1. Attack Religion

Religion deserves to be attacked, critiqued, deconstructed, and exposed for what it is.

This I believe.

If it CAN be successfully assailed and deconstructed, it should be, because if it can be, then it is from no deity.

Most (not all, of course) of the religious folks I know are the biggest critics of their own beliefs. They seem to feel that they need to know if they're on the right track or not, and the best way to do that is to ask questions of it to see if they can find a chink in the armor.

I totally beleive you beleive it. Your avatar correctly portrays a bitter, violent, and cynical person. I respect your views, respect the ones of others.

Yup, that avatar is pretty much a CGI photo of me. Once upon a time, many years ago, I WAS bitter and violent, and I yet remain cynical, so you've caught me out. There were reasons I was all of those things, and there are reasons I believe in God, and there are reasons I believe what I do concerning the nature of Jesus.

Those reasons, regarding my stance on religion, do not rise to the level of "proof", nor will they ever. God is not subject to proof - he does not jump through hoops for mortals nor does he sit still to be experimented on like some cosmic guinea pig.

Still, I submit that if one fears examining his beliefs, then he is not certain enough of them to justify continuing holding them. Anything that will not bear scrutiny is better left in the dust.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by terriblyvexed

 

Answer...you start a one god religion, and impose it on people little by little till there is only one god, and you kill, and pillage in his name who then can challenge you, you have the one true god on your side, and who can fight a god without their own?

And this is where your faulty logic breaks down. The real God in form of Jesus Christ, whom all the fullness of God dwelled within, came teaching the exact opposite of what you declared. You see, all the people you are talking about are called the "tares" and he will burn them up at the end and they will be no more. You can't possess the kingdom by violence.

Ummm no, Just NO.

The human form is not capable of handling even a small percentage, and only the new age Christians try to believe that garbage.

Time and again the believers show they have no actual sense other than the little box they have created for themselves, and the very small percentage of their beloved book that they actually read, and even though they realize it has been mistranslated very badly, and was never meant to be a book in the first place, they still stubbornly cling to this false HOPE, that will ultimately be the author of ultimate destruction.

"God is spirit and truth" ~ Jesus

If so, since consciousness, not matter is primary, how is it not reasonable to conclude that the logos of the spirit might indwell a human being in fullness and without reserve?

reply to post by Spawn2001


From everything I have read I do not believe an actual Jesus Christ ever existed in the first place.

You are entitled to your beliefs though. I just don't accept them as having a basis in our reality.

reply to post by nenothtu

What all of this tells me is that you think it's all about you.

I found this hilarious! You and adjensen attacked my claims because YOU have a college degree! LOL Well, what about the billions of others with little or no education at all? Don'cha think this discussion is more about THEM and not you??? But, seeing as you both are obvioulsy a little more self-centered than the norm I guess maybe it is about you two. Jeez!