GOPer Who Got Millions in Farm Subsidies Thinks the Poor Should Starve Rather Than Get Food Stamps

Originally posted by Malynn

Originally posted by jssaylor2007

If someone is UNABLE to work then that is a completely different story. I personally have a friend who receives foodstamps, welfare, and his wife was national guard, so there are some more benefits. His stance on getting a job is, "Why should I go get a job when the government is going to pay me more to sit here and play computer games."

Justify that, because a HUGE portion of welfare recipients are THAT.

Uh, no. A "huge" portion of welfare recipients are not that. Different studies on the subject show that only a very small percentage of people will game the system. Most people who use it are actually in need and using it the way it was intended.

Different studies also have different definitions of need,

Anyone remember what happened in France when the Queen was told that the poor had no bread?

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


You mean "Let them eat cake"

Or from the liberal perspective. Let them have cell phones, and buy beer, and cigarettes. Ah yes, let them be able to sell them for cash so they can fund their habits!

reply to post by wildtimes


I guess you never lived in a black or really poor neighborhood. Your stats don't reflect the truth - a very large percent of poor black people got on food stamps are not willing to work at all - I have known many of them for years.

I think all he is saying is workfare is better than a free ride for those not willing to show a willingness to work - and I agree with this. We are not talking about starving people who are mentally ill or have physical problems preventing them from working.. just no hand outs for the deadbeats. Let them go hungry for a while and they will get off their butts and get a job.

Originally posted by jssaylor2007
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

You mean "Let them eat cake"

Or from the liberal perspective. Let them have cell phones, and buy beer, and cigarettes. Ah yes, let them be able to sell them for cash so they can fund their habits!

You haven't any idea what "Let them eat cake" even means...

When told that there was no bread, she said, "Then let them eat cake". What she didn't seem to understand was that there wasn't any cake. This infuriated the poor, not because they had nothing, but because all they had was being given to the aristocracy who then laughed at them for having nothing.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


If there are no jobs to be had, they can't.
I'm not supporting "deadbeats" - and I understand the point you are making. The "stats" came from the article. If you do the math, it comes out to just 4% of the recipients gaming the system.

The SYSTEM needs to be fixed. Sadly, I don't think humanity has what it takes en masse to do it, though.

No, I have not lived in a poor or predominantly black neighborhood, but I have WORKED among them, helping people "manage" their lives better (vast majority were voluntary clients - although there were a couple of court-mandated ones when I was involved in the Mental Health Court diversion program) and learn new coping skills, job-readiness, etc.

I helped people who were white, black, and Hispanic; kids in school, new parents, adults and youths - I developed and ran a successful youth group for kids in the urban core - and I live in an integrated part of the city that was once an affluent "suburb" and is now a "mixed" neighborhood of working-class people. I grew up in a college town, and lived in an integrated neighborhood there as well.

I know their plight better than you might think. And I know what systems are in place to help those people get on their feet. If they choose not to take advantage of the free help available and instead would rather collect dole-outs, then that must seem to them to be the better choice. It's hard to have ambition when all around you is unemployment, broken families, absent fathers, irresponsible mothers, violence, desperation, hopelessness, and powerlessness to do anything about it.

A slogan I adopted was:
Stay In School. Learn the System. THEN CHANGE the SYSTEM.

reply to post by Parthin


Very well stated. It's the parents' job to teach the life skills necessary for a kid to be successful out on their own.
Unfortunately, many parents are ill-equipped to do so, because they themselves are lacking the appropriate skills. So schools offer things like "home ec" and "shop", and many have programs in place for work-study style learning - doing hands-on trade-related things based on their interests.

People tend to minimize the significance of GOOD PARENTING. Some because they were raised by people with poor parenting skills. Family systems have a huge impact on outcomes. People need education, yes. Particularly in good parenting.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks for the thread, I'd heard about this 'guy' on KPFK here in LA and, like you, abhor the hypocrisy.

It did get me to thinking about a saying heard often in recovery circles: "If you spot it, You've got it".

Or as psychologist would call projection:

Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defence mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves psychically expelling one's negative qualities onto others, and is a common psychological process.[1][2] Theoretically, projection and the related projective identification reduces anxiety by allowing the unconscious expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires through displacement

en.wikipedia.org...

The trick be self-aware enough to recognise it in yourself so that you can improve your character - but wait - aren't these 'character' people?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I think the largest problem here isn't so much the fact the Government is feeding people through the SNAP program...and it isn't costing much, despite what some like to make it sound like.

It's that we, as a nation, spend literally trillions above most of the rest of the planet combined....and still have basic issues with people NEEDING more government help just to eat.

In a system where we've come to spend so much on a daily through annual basis on everything humanly imaginable for Government to spend money on? I think there is no excuse whatever that anyone not have the food they need and the MEANS to earn it without much trouble or challenge.

By the way.....when did farming and collection of subsidies become a partisan thing? Some of the larger porkers in this part of Missouri for playing 'Gentleman Farmer' and sucking off the system are Democrats...not that it matters for that, which is kinda the point. The politics of food? That too is a statement worthy of a story all it's own.

Good point this being a non-partisan problem.

I'd like to expand on your thought about government's often skewed priorites. I'd love to see everyone eat, everyone have health care, everyone have good child care if needed (I'd rather mom's or dad's stay home with their kids the first five years), etc., etc.

But untill our (because governent is a reflection of us and our stupidity) government's priorities are made human we'll have these Leachs everywhere.

It's time to return to our isolationist roots. Interest is (perhaps - I don't know where to find figures) our biggest daily expense in the US and I find this as dreadfull as it is unnecessary. In those cases I am with the Libertarians. But in the human social ones, I tend towards socialism.

We need a trickle up economy not a 'trickle down' one.

There are so many opportunities for true wealth building for millions of people in the world right now - just in energy production (localized) and food production (organic and local) and so many others. Things that need to be done. Done with people and brains and goodwill.

So many things to try to save humanity and the planet for our children, so many things to do.

Originally posted by jssaylor2007
I agree with him.

If you are unwilling to work you should not be allowed ANY government help.

Unwilling being the key word here.

un•will•ing (ʌnˈwɪl ɪŋ) adj. 1. not willing; reluctant; loath; averse. 2. opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate.

If someone is UNABLE to work then that is a completely different story. I personally have a friend who receives foodstamps, welfare, and his wife was national guard, so there are some more benefits. His stance on getting a job is, "Why should I go get a job when the government is going to pay me more to sit here and play computer games."

Justify that, because a HUGE portion of welfare recipients are THAT.

Also explain why 78% of the "Farm Bill" now goes to food stamps? The government has been using agriculture as a trojan horse for years, and soon it is going to reap what it sows.

Perhaps - but who is to judge whether someone is 'unable' or 'unwilling'?

Do you know all welfare recipients - in fact do you know any? Where do you get your facts? About welfare recipients? What is your definition of welfare recipient.

And again I point you towards learning about 'projection'.

Originally posted by darkbake
Republicans are insane! I don't understand how Christianity has anything to do with their movement! They give Christians a terrible name and spit in the face of their own God.

edit on 23-5-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Their God? Their God is money - pure and simple.

Originally posted by ahnggk
As a Christian, I tell you this.

Thessalonians is written by an apostle whose credibility of writings are dubious according to religious scholars. I'm talking about apostle Paul. The same apostle whose many teachings oppose the teachings of Christ and the prophets. His very profile fits the one of the false prophet Jesus and Revelations warned us about. Paul, like the false prophet Jezebel tolerates eating of food sacrificed to idols among many other blasphemies.

So I tell you this, Jesus did not teach us anything about not feeding those who don't work.

Rather Jesus told that whatever you do to the least, you do unto him. Neglect the poor, you neglect God also, and you will be made accountable later on. Whose teaching would you follow? Paul's or Jesus?

You can find anything in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible comes from God, some came from the teachings of man/devil.

edit on 23-5-2013 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

Thank you for this. I've often thought that Paul was an opportunist jumping on the Christ bandwagon for his own aggrandisement. Actually the idea started with my Mom - a baptist.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Excellent points you have made. Thanks for your participation.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by korathin

 

It is like a story in the Old Testament about a Master treating his servant kindly. Forgiving the servants mistakes, debt etc. But the servant treats those beneath them cruelly. Doesn't forgive them their mistakes or cut them slack with debt.

Yep! Thomas Jefferson did the same thing....hired KNOWN thugs to manage his farm, while he sat back and crowed about 'equal rights'. He didn't stop his 'manager' from torturing and brutalizing his slaves. Sick.

Source please.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by 1337s0lja

 

BUT, why do you think WIC-approved foods are "fake"? I see the labels at the grocer's that say "WIC-approved" applied to canned tuna, frozen veggies, cheese, etc.
I worked for years (social worker) with families who used public health system and depended on WIC....and I didn't see anything "fake" about the approved foods.
Just sayin'.
Good luck with your baby!!! Your life is about to change forever!!

I thing the word 'fake' was intended to mean 'processed'. And it is another example of Factory Farm/Food subsisdies.

WIC would actually help (beyond filling bellies) if you could only buy non-processed foods and non-gmo foods, etc.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Smithsonian magazine. The Little Known Dark Side of Thomas Jefferson
Enjoy, read and be amazed.

Originally posted by FyreByrd
WIC would actually help (beyond filling bellies) if you could only buy non-processed foods and non-gmo foods, etc.

You can buy NON-GMO non-processed in Minnesota. Each state is allowed wiggle room inside of what the WIC program allows.

There should be a survey done every year by an independent agency to determine the lowest standard of living of the working poor and nobody getting any kind of welfare should have a higher standard of living.

Originally posted by roberthsiddelljr
There should be a survey done every year by an independent agency to determine the lowest standard of living of the working poor and nobody getting any kind of welfare should have a higher standard of living.

Yes! Why should we try to raise anyone above the lowest possible standard of living?

Does this also work for Corporations that get far FAR more from the government in terms of handouts than "the poor" could ever hope to receive?

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

Gov't should not provide aid to businesses but if TPTB do hand taxpayer money to a business, it should be a loan with interest. As for higher standards for welfare maggots than workers, I'd like to suggest some things to you that would get me kicked off this site but I'll just repeat the obvious: Most people would not be stupid enough to work if socialism paid more.