Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
Basically, a lot of things went through my mind when reading that story - he had been contacted by the MI5 just six months ago. This kind of sent alarm bells ringing. One question that particularly struck me was: What if he had indeed accepted the job offer? What if he was indeed working for the MI5 and is still indeed doing so? It's far-fetched but not impossible... It just seems a bit odd that's all...

This sets off alarm bells for me too, but for different reasons.
It seems that MI5 had contact with him, and the government seems to be being very dodgy about being honest in this case. The PM should have made a statement by now making it clear that there was an investigation going on, and that as much of it as possible will be made public.

This is not going to help calm suspicious minds.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
I'm not saying this was staged and my mind never even went to that "conspiracy" - but this story has just sent alarm bells ringing and has awakened some fresh suspicions in my mind...

And from the report I read the guy who made that statement about him being "harassed" by MI5 in that TV interview was arrested immediately after - that sounds to me like intimidation and silencing tactics. I can almost guarantee we won't hear any more statements from him again.

While I agree that it does look strange, we need to find out more about this before making wild accusations. MI5 deals with potentially hundreds of individuals every month, and "had contact with" could be anything.

The guy is also alive. If this were "planned" by MI5, why wasn't he killed there? Why hasn't he been killed since while in custody? What happens when he gets the chance to speak in court? What happens when he's imprisoned?

I'll be watching this closely.

Of course, there needs to be a motive.
Could the motive be for more surveillance powers?

To those that think there being some 'peaceful' Muslims is somehow making it less of an issue, perhaps read this.

Extremism isn't countered by being passive nor peaceful. Those of extremist persuasion are not functioning to the same ethical codes as those of peaceful persuasion, rational debate is not their modus operandi. They do not take heed of mild worded threats from politicians nor from their Muslim leaders. Their covert nature has shown the Western world that even those that seem integrated and harmless, were harboring their extremist views out of public sight, as evident in the 7/7 bombers, Tsarnaevs etc. placing the entire Muslim population under scrutiny. Perhaps written statements denouncing the extremist points of their doctrine from every Mosque goer would be a start, at least there would be a basis for taking action against those harbouring ill intentions. Restriction of services such as NHS, and benefits to those refusing to denounce would be the next step and incarceration for those refusing to comply to our ethics, the next. Deportation where possible and permanent incarceration for others.

www.facebook.com...

The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.

A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.

My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem, just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

And we are silent......

reply to post by Rocker2013


MI5 placed the perpetrator on their potential suspect radar, rightly so given his actions in handing out extremist leaflets and being part of banned extremist groups. Being a convert, perhaps was seen as a potential covert 'recruit' or could provide information on extremist group members. Standard procedure for covert services, would be to monitor and 'harass' the individual until they genuinely removed themselves from the need for being on the potential terrorist radar.

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens



Get off the "False Flag" attack bandwagon and continue to apply critical thought. You will feel better about yourself in the long run.

never been to woolwich but this incident doesnt suprise me
the only thing amazes me is that its taken so long to happen

and people say islam is peace

ugh

reply to post by Leonidas


So you don't think it odd that the MI5 approached this "terrorist" about six months ago asking him to work for them and then six months later he commits an act of terror?

Certainly seems a bit dodgy...

reply to post by Leonidas


Also, why exactly are people so quick to label things like 9/11 as a false flag, but then when such an act like this is committed, you easily lap up the "official" story.

Strange...

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

So, have they staged it with the intention of having a light shone on their activities, because it doesn't appear that they've done a good job in tying up loose ends?

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by Leonidas

 

Also, why exactly are people so quick to label things like 9/11 as a false flag, but then when such an act like this is committed, you easily lap up the "official" story.

Strange...

Because the perpetrators are being filmed and photographed carrying out their barbarity and attributing their act in the name of Islam. The official story was on social media before the MSM knew what was going on.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by Leonidas

 

So you don't think it odd that the MI5 approached this "terrorist" about six months ago asking him to work for them and then six months later he commits an act of terror?

Certainly seems a bit dodgy...

If this is a government inspired or arranged event, why would you programme your puppet to say to the nation 'Don't trust the government, get rid of them'.

What would that achieve?

reply to post by khimbar


Because anyone who would say such a thing would be likened onto those who have committed this barbaric crime. Nobody's going to listen to someone who's just butchered a soldier. So saying "don't trust your government" will simply fall on deaf ears - indeed, it'll have the opposite effect. He's just butchered a soldier - I highly doubt his opinion or statement will be listened to.

And for such an "act of terror", it certainly hasn't made me feel terrified or scared. I actually found the whole thing quite so very silly. I still feel as safe as ever.

Additionally, it's also quite preposterous that Boris, only hours after the soldier had just been butchered (his body wasn't even cold yet!) was talking some nonsense or other about the Data and Communications Bill and how it might have to be revived in light of the Woolwich incident...

reply to post by woodwardjnr


That doesn't prove anything to be honest.

Now I'm not saying it's a false flag - but I'm also not saying that it's not a false flag.

I just find it amusing that everybody is quick to say 9/11 or other events are staged, but this one is suddenly real and spontaneous. You're all very quick to believe this was real, but oh no, "those towers were demolished maaan"

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens


I suppose, but it still strikes me as odd. The one thing that adds validity to this incident, to me, is that speech. Unless the government have a plan to start a race war and then swoop in and save us all, which is possible I suppose.

But I think we have to admit, that much as we like to throw around psy-op false flag theories, there are muslims out there prepared to kill non muslims. That can't be denied.

I think I said something similar in the first few pages of this thread, I can't remember his name but a 'Lord' appeared on TV to basically say 'We need to rush through the Electronic Communication Bill now'. Even if this attack is exactly as it appears, it'll be exploited in every way possible.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


For such a dim population - and I'm afraid many are very dim, regardless of how they might feel that they're not - a government could do anything and the dim population would still be none-the-wiser.

I'm not saying I'm enlightened or anything, but let's just say for a second that "higher-ups" are not only more intelligent and crafty than the rest of the populace, but also know more and are always eight steps ahead - whilst the populace dithers about ingesting main news.

I'm just saying that even if something might appear to seem one way, it doesn't actually mean that it is. An agenda doesn't have to be easily seen or easily reasoned to be like so - such an "attack" could easily have achieved many things; we just couldn't have seen it yet - or even worse, we would never see it because it's so interwoven and interrelated with several other things that your average citizen would never pick up on.

This is the problem with "conspiracies" or alleged conspiracies - they might be so complex, it would be highly difficult if not impossible for your average Joe Bloggs to spot the pattern or connect the dots. Not that I've connected any dots anyway....

With respect, you are wrong. Conspiracy theories exist as a means to simplify complex situations so that the masses and the less-than-bright can understand. The clincher being that they often fool people into believing in them by appealing to people's egos: You must be SMART to understand this theory.

Conspiracy Theories are one of the last refuges of the dim and afraid.

I think events such as this seem 'odd' to many people simply because it really is odd that two men have decided to kill and attempt to behead a soldier and claim they've done it because of their religion.

If you think about it in the realest of terms, that is very odd behaviour. No wonder it's hard to accept that this is almostly certainly what has happened.

People, eh?

It seems there are a lot of arrests being made across social media sites due to messages from all sorts across England:

Police are dealing with a growing number of abusive comments on social media following the murder of British soldier Lee Rigby.

A handful of people across the country have been charged followed a spate of messages left on Facebook and Twitter.

Incidents have been reported in places as far apart as Bristol and Lincoln, as well as in London, where Drummer Rigby was killed near Woolwich Barracks on Wednesday afternoon.

There has also been a huge increase in anti-Muslim attacks. Faith Matters, which runs a helpline, said they had received 162 calls since Mr Rigby's murder, up from a daily average of six.



If you go to the site, you can read who is being arrested:

news.uk.msn.com...

I have heard two things that have really gotten alarm bells ringing for me.
The fact that he was offered "recruitment" by MI5 and the subsequent arrest of the witness claiming it.
And the fact that the "quiet" killer, disappeared for 3 months before this attack.
These things alone dont a conspiracy make. But they certainly set off alarm bells.

A couple of things loosely related to this that strike me.
Firstly, I remember the IRA going after off duty troops in NI and German bases back in the 80 s and there wasn't this much stuff going on after. Maybe it's a result of twitter and other social networking. ..
Secondly, my eldest lad's Marine cadet unit was told not to travel in uniform unless being dropped off by their parents for fear of attack.

What a screwed up country we're becoming where kids have to worry about stuff like this.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


That is the real issue, 99% don't integrate, all this multiculturalism is a myth.

Of course the majority of muslims are not terrorists but they never do anything proactive about it, of course when something happens they come out & condemn the incident, but that is a easy thing to do, just like saying sorry, it is actions that speak louder than words.

None muslims going out on the streets fighting & attacking muslims isn't going to work, but neither is doing nothing, they muslims in the UK should have to live by English values, also English should be the first language, they should have to be encouraged not to all live in closed areas like they do now.

One issue that has always got me is how we treat the Irish terrorists, in the name of peace they were all freed this give out the wrong idea, the leaders of the IRA at the time are no different to Osama bin Laden or Nelson Mandela, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.