Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

Originally posted by old_god
reply to post by The X

 

So he makes assumptions as facts and then takes a sweeping argument and is right? You are as bad as him then I am afraid and this is the problem.

No gives a damn about actually asking the right questions, everyone is interesting in the new enemy. I don't need to belittle anyone, he did a good job of it himself but I do get a little wound up at the presumptuous attitude of people.

Just because violence or intolerant behaviour doesn't mean that every and anyone is of that same group and denomination?

As for that man's comments about Jihad, couldn't be so far from the truth - he is quoting the hardlined interpretation of Islam, by Salafi's and Wahabi's who unfortunately are taking a hold of much of the youth in the UK now. True Islam teaches the opposite, that Jihad is the battle within, fighting ones own desires, addictions and vices.

But no one wants to hear that, people don't want to believe that the majority want peace so everyone desires a new enemy.

Terrorism is a tactic not an enemy. It is a tactic used by the enemy. If you don't know who the enemy is, you are incapable of putting 2 and 2 together to make 4.
I'll make it easier to understand: What do The Taliban, Al Queda, Ansar al Sharia, Al Shabob, MAJ Nidal Hassan, the Boston bombers, the Chechen rebels, the FSA, and this pair of London beheaders have in common?.

The enemy already exists, The religion of peace has allowed itself to become subverted, some people may want peace, and that is on both sides, what i don't see from the muslim community are steps towards proper and full integration into british society.
If it is because integration into a society that goes against what they stand for, and cannot happen, then, why come here?, a better standard of living?, money?, because they want a better standard of living in a country that worked very hard to obtain it for itself, what else?.
I honestly don't see any other reason, shows nothing more than greed and envy, after all we know the JSA is the jihadi seeker allowance.

jihadi seeker allowance

Click here for more information.

reply to post by MidnightTide


That wasn't the point of my post at all. Mr. Neverforget was attempting to insinuate that the horrible tragedy that occurred was the fault of Islam. His proof was scripture from the Quran. I was merely pointing out he was wrong and promoting logical fallacy. Granted, my reply was in sarcastic and flippant terms. I forget I need to spell things out for people here.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by FOXMULDER147

 

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that we shouldn't expect people to act sensibly, we can hope of course, but there are people out there, like the man who tried to burn down a mosque, who will not act sensibly and show restraint.

In which case, we lock them up for excessively long periods to remind others that this kind of behaviour isn't helping.

Originally posted by ikonoklast

Originally posted by usaman1983
BBC Tweet: BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 21m
UK officials say Woolwich incident not connected to intelligence-led operation - via @FrankRGardner Live updates: bbc.in...

This sounds like a pretty strange denial statement to release as part of the breaking news on the BBC.

This comment/post on page 2, was there any explanation or further info on this?

This may piss afew people off but sometimes thats what it takes.
Right out of the gate we know the attackers are Muslim...you can lie to yourself if you want but you knew the minute you heard the story, the attackers would be muslim.

So lets compare muslims with drunk drivers.... Drunk drivers are vilified here.

Now I dont have statistics but how many people you think drive during a single day over the states legal blood alcohol content? Im guessing a lot.

How many of them actually horrifically kill innocent people? 1% 2%???

If islam was a drug it would be outlawed.
How long are we going to ignore the fact that islam and muslims will not co-exist in modern western society?
I am not racist, maybe a little, You dont like a video so its ok to pack a van with explosives and drive it into a market of innocent people? where is the outrage???

not too long ago there was a young female muslim murdered in her home in S.Cali...made to look like a white man did it. was all over the news, people marching wearing "I am Fatima" shirts... claiming islamiphobia...

When the husband or father was arrested for the "honor killing" it reminded me of Rossana Anna Danna on SNL... "oh never mind"...

where did the marchers go? where did the news media go? because it turned out she wasnt killed by a white man its no longer news? Honor killings are ok with us now?

I have lots more but im going golfing....
say its only 1 or 2% of muslims that kill....thats enough to make drinking and driving illegal....just saying

reply to post by Malynn


Promoting the "logical fallacy" that holy scripture affects people's actions, How illogical of me.

The yelling of "Allah Ackbar" before all these killings, bombings, terror attacks is nothing to do with the fact the Quran wages a Holy war on non-believers, until there is no religion but Islam, just coincidence.

reply to post by Malynn


Appears that you and many others have to educate yourself about the Quran.

According to the Quran's teachings, it came directly to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the angel Gabriel (Ar. Jibril), who received it from Almighty God (Allah) and then he recited it to Muhammad, peace be upon him, piece by piece, sentence by sentence, revealing small and large portions of it over a period of 23 years.

islamnewsroom.com...

When you quote the Quran, you are quoting the literal word of Allah. There are many quotes in the Quran that DO preach violence against non-believers. Some Muslims take those words literally and will act upon them.

What I found totally surreal about this picture and the video linked to it, was the female member of the public casually wandering past the scene with her shopping trolley, past the poor beheaded victim in the middle of the road and past the killer still holding his weapons and his hands dripping with blood whilst he was ranting to the cameras, she seemed to be totally oblivious to what was happening. Add to that the large numbers of people hanging around within yards, many finding it sickeningly appropriate to film the scene, you have to ask the question how on earth were these people allowed to get so close to such an extremely dangerous situation?

The attackers were not only armed with knives and meat cleavers, they also had a least one firearm which according to one eye witness was waved and pointed at at least two people nearest to the scene. Apparently the armed response unit took 20 minutes to arrive, if they had chosen to, the attackers could have killed and injured many more in that time especially as there were so many people so near to them. However one eyewitness said that upon realising what had happened he ran down to the "other end of the road" where there were already unarmed police present but was told they could not do anything until the armed officers arrived, in the meantime the public at the other end of the road were able to remain within easy striking/shooting distance of the killers.

I wonder if Piers Morgan will modify his views on gun control now? If that soldier had been packing his sidearm, this would be a much different story.

Arm the Brits!!!

reply to post by tinner07

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

And I'm not even Christian - it just seemed to be the most apt response to your drivel.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I wonder if Piers Morgan will modify his views on gun control now? If that soldier had been packing his sidearm, this would be a much different story.

Arm the Brits!!!

Again, I'll ask you pro-gun mob, how would carrying a firearm have helped this soldier if he was randomly attacked by someone in a vehicle? Keep your silly beliefs on your side of the ocean, thank you.

Originally posted by cluedup
Apparently the armed response unit took 20 minutes to arrive,

That is concerning. In London, as well...

"What's your emergency?"
"There's a couple of guys hacking someone's head off with meat cleavers."
"Ok, we'll be with you in 15-20!"

I thought London had the most "efficient" and "professional" police service in the world (according to Boris Johnson).

Extremist views, terrorists, acts of violence on random people, premeditated attacks on the population, public beheading in London, what's not to hate?

You want people to shut up feeling angry, get real, people are angry, people hate such evilness, so they should.

Most UK citizens don't want the soldiers risking their lives in some crazy nation of backwards thinking, extreme misogyny, violence etc, they didn't vote for it, if there was a vote I bet more than 80% would vote against any military presence there, as would they vote against having those that hate our culture, freedom and ethics to the point of violence, being here.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


Reportedly the local police were waiting for the armed guys to deal with it. Policies?

reply to post by FOXMULDER147
How is attacking a mosque or 'retaliating' against Muslims going to help at all? If anything, it just makes everything worse. It's like trying to put out a fire by throwing wood on it. Morons.

Does that not also apply to "people" who hack a mans head off in retaliation for events in "their" countries??

Originally posted by MidnightTide
You do realize the words in the Quran are the literal words of God do you not? There is no misinterpretation, to say as such means you are a heretic

Originally posted by NeverForget
Nonsense, the Quran has well over a 100 verses waging war on non-believers. MODS, call me for an extreme violation if you like, I'm not breaching your rules for passing on the truth.

OK I guess you don't know the meaning of "out of context?" since you wont do the research I'll do it for you. Your welcome.

First here's a very different side of the Islam your used to:

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

[5:87] O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.

[8:61] If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[4:90] ... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.


[7:28] They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it." Say, "GOD never advocates sin. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.


Freedom in religion:
[16:125] You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

Continued---->

There are a number of people who will quote parts of verses out of context, either out of ignorance, or deliberately, to promote a false view of the religion. We present here some of the verses with their context that clearly show that these "violent" verses only relate to war situations. As mentioned before, all wars and fighting are only in self-defence.

All wars are governed by the basic rule in 60:8-9.
Misquoted Verse:
[4:101] "... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Same Verse in Context:
[4:101] When you travel, during war, you commit no error by shortening your Contact Prayers (Salat), if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.

Misquoted Verse:
[8:12-13] ... I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. ...
Same Verse in Context:
[8:12-13] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger." This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe.

Misquoted Verse:
[9:5] "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..."
Same Verse In Context:
[9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. ...

Misquoted verse:
[9:14] "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame ..."
Same Verse In Context:
[9:13-14] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers. You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.

To summarize, the religion of Submission to God (Islam) as described in the Quran is a peaceful and tolerant one. The only situations where fighting is allowed is in self-defense. Aggression is always prohibited.

Note: We would like to add that out of the 6,346 verses in the Quran, a very small percentage talk about "war". Islam being a practical religion does cover the legitimacy of fighting as well as when it is unjustified. The believers in the time of Muhammad had to face hostile opposition because of their religious views, and were in many cases forced to fight to save their lives. However, the bulk of the Quran, as the religion of Islam in general, focuses on worshipping God, leading a righteous life and attaining salvation in the Hereafter. We invite you to read the Quran for yourself to verify this.
www.masjidtucson.org...

Two sides of every coin... Reading things out of context and spreading hate is an ignorant way to live, muslim or non muslim.

Originally posted by souljacker
reply to post by FOXMULDER147

 

How is attacking a mosque or 'retaliating' against Muslims going to help at all? If anything, it just makes everything worse. It's like trying to put out a fire by throwing wood on it. Morons.

Does that not also apply to "people" who hack a mans head off in retaliation for events in "their" countries??

edit on 22-5-2013 by souljacker because: (no reason given)

Yes, it obviously does.