6 Reasons Why Obama’s Popularity Is Likely to Plummet; The politics of hope & the politics of nope

reply to post by seabag


Congress has to do the laws and tax codes. But Corporations CAN CHOOSE to do the right thing by their EMPLOYEES and contribute to uplifting everyone, rather than leaving Americans high and dry and sucking up to the faceless, nameless "shareholders" and their digital fiction of "wealth" only.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

government works for the rich because both D and R represent them. they don't represent the average person. THAT is the problem.

I agree that's the problem. The part we disagree on apparently is who to blame and how to fix it. You chose to cry about 1% and I'm saying the problem is corrupt politicians.

Who has the power to fix this problem we face? Corporations or Congress?

I chose not to blame the fat cats because its wasted energy.

Did the chicken come before the egg or the egg before the chicken

People pick the wrong candidates and then whine like children.

You missed my question.

Who has the power to fix this problem we face? Corporations or Congress?

Shouldn't we go after the one who can do something?

Funny the people who voted D expected government to do something about it and got nothing in return other than broken promises. Isn't that why Occupy came to being? To fight capitalist corruption and ask/demand for action?

Whats YOUR "solution"? Yeah vote republican. Everyone is "bad" except republicans. "I hate government" but if its republican its ok. I wanna protect my military career". You are asking for honesty from others yet provide none yourself.

Government is the solution!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by seabag

 

Congress has to do the laws and tax codes. But Corporations CAN CHOOSE to do the right thing by their EMPLOYEES and contribute to uplifting everyone, rather than leaving Americans high and dry and sucking up to the faceless, nameless "shareholders" and their digital fiction of "wealth" only.

Corporations shouldn't have to choose anything. If I have to pay taxes then dammit corporations should to. Otherwise lets abolish the federal reserve and start a new public central bank.

reply to post by jacobe001


You left out the unions. Major and obvious omission.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Funny the people who voted D expected government to do something about it and got nothing in return other than broken promises.

Of course nothing happened. You elected a big government liberal democrat. What did you expect?

Isn't that why Occupy came to being? To fight capitalist corruption and ask/demand for action?

I believe that was the original intent. Too bad it turned into a 'gimme-gimme free stuff drug party' for free loaders.

Whats YOUR "solution"? Yeah vote republican. Everyone is "bad" except republicans. "I hate government" but if its republican its ok.

Not a republican....a true fiscal conservative with executive business experience. Someone who knows how to stop the bleeding and turn a profit. Certainly not John McCain, Romney or Obama.

I wanna protect my military career". You are asking for honesty from others yet provide none yourself.

I got out of the military in 2004 (nearly a decade ago). I am a civilian working in the free market private sector with zero ties to government or LE and zero guarantees. I am always honest so I don't know why you suggest otherwise.

As far as your wise crack about me thinking "government is the solution" that's partially correct. Unfortunately I do think government is the solution but not in the way you ascribe. I think it needs to be reigned in, thinned out, brought back on task and held to account.

reply to post by wildtimes

Congress has to do the laws and tax codes. But Corporations CAN CHOOSE to do the right thing by their EMPLOYEES and contribute to uplifting everyone, rather than leaving Americans high and dry and sucking up to the faceless, nameless "shareholders" and their digital fiction of "wealth" only.

You make broad, sweeping generalizations as if all corporations are boogey men.

Do you get a paycheck? Maybe benefits, too? If so, the company is "doing right by their employees". What do you want them to do, split the profits with everyone, too?

What corporation is "leaving Americans high and dry"? This sounds like the complaint of a disgruntled employee who think far too highly of himself/herself and has unrealistic expectations. Maybe if you gave specifics I could make more sense out of it.

Originally posted by seabag



What corporation is "leaving Americans high and dry"? This sounds like the complaint of a disgruntled employee who think far too highly of himself/herself and has unrealistic expectations. Maybe if you gave specifics I could make more sense out of it.

www.globalresearch.ca...

I think there are many corporations that have placed greed and the profit motive above the well being of the USA.

I own an LLC manufacturing company and could very easily offshore my products to be made in Mexico or China but I actually care about the state of the nation and the American working man. It wasn't that long ago that I lived paycheck to paycheck.

Originally posted by seabag

Of course nothing happened. You elected a big government liberal democrat. What did you expect?

To act as big government and reign in corporations. To go after criminals and prosecute them.

Isn't that why Occupy came to being? To fight capitalist corruption and ask/demand for action?

I believe that was the original intent. Too bad it turned into a 'gimme-gimme free stuff drug party' for free loaders.

Too bad the tea party turned into a bunch of hippies with their 9mm revolver shouting obsceneties.

See both of us can play the same game. I blame both business and government, and you blame mostly government.

Whats YOUR "solution"? Yeah vote republican. Everyone is "bad" except republicans. "I hate government" but if its republican its ok.

Not a republican....a true fiscal conservative with executive business experience. Someone who knows how to stop the bleeding and turn a profit. Certainly not John McCain, Romney or Obama.

Were you not mislabeling libertarians as anarchists a few weeks ago? Small government with a big military is the epitomy of hypocrisy and that is why I dislike republicans. At least I admit I want a reasonably big, big enough to be competant, government. Not the democrats though and certainly not this big either.

I wanna protect my military career". You are asking for honesty from others yet provide none yourself.

I got out of the military in 2004 (nearly a decade ago). I am a civilian working in the free market private sector with zero ties to government or LE and zero guarantees. I am always honest so I don't know why you suggest otherwise.

As far as your wise crack about me thinking "government is the solution" that's partially correct. Unfortunately I do think government is the solution but not in the way you ascribe. I think it needs to be reigned in, thinned out, brought back on task and held to account.

I agree here. More accountability and more law enforcement.

Smaller military, smaller welfare, bring back jobs to america and keep them here. But wall street and the federal reserve won't let it happen.

reply to post by seabag

Do you get a paycheck?

No.

Maybe benefits, too?

No.

If so, the company is "doing right by their employees". What do you want them to do, split the profits with everyone, too?

Yes.

EDIT: Thanks for the "star" I started working when I was TWELVE YEARS OLD.
I am now pushing FIFTY-FIVE. I worked for 38 years. You have some problem with that??? Not good enough for ya?
I raised two kids in the process, btw. How can you 'dismiss' me like that?!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by seabag

 

Do you get a paycheck?

No.

Maybe benefits, too?

No.

If so, the company is "doing right by their employees". What do you want them to do, split the profits with everyone, too?

Yes.

I had to give you a star for your honesty (and the good laugh you gave me).

So you do no work, you've taken no risk, yet corporations should split profits with you?

Sorry, I must have missed something. How is that fair to those of us who bust our arse and risk our own money to create jobs for ourselves and others? Why should I share my profit if I'm fortunate enough to start making any after years of hard work building my company?

reply to post by seabag

I had to give you a star for your honesty (and the good laugh you gave me).

So you do no work, you've taken no risk, yet corporations should split profits with you?

You have obviously not read through my threads and posts.
I left the work force 5 years ago because of the unethical practices in the 'corporate' world.
I DO NO WORK?
I take care of this freaking household...
I shop, pay the bills, clean, do laundry, make sure the household is in order, and take care of yard work, .....

oh, that means "I do no work."???

reply to post by wildtimes

You have obviously not read through my threads and posts.
I left the work force 5 years ago because of the unethical practices in the 'corporate' world.
I DO NO WORK?

I did not read that....if I did I don't remember. I was going off of your one word answer to my question. Anyway, it's not about you or me. If someone works (at a paying job) they are owed a paycheck...nothing more. Companies aren't obligated to share profits. Some do, and that's great, but it shouldn't be expected.

I take care of this freaking household...
I shop, pay the bills, clean, do laundry, make sure the household is in order, and take care of yard work, .....

oh, that means "I do no work."???

Calm down!

reply to post by wildtimes

EDIT: Thanks for the "star" I started working when I was TWELVE YEARS OLD.
I am now pushing FIFTY-FIVE. I worked for 38 years. You have some problem with that??? Not good enough for ya?
I raised two kids in the process, btw. How can you 'dismiss' me like that?!

I didn't dismiss anyone. I asked if you thought a company should share profit and you said yes, even though you said you don't have a paying job. That was funny to me. Sorry if there was some misunderstanding.

reply to post by wildtimes


Throughout your thread you've made many derogatory comments about corporations, which is your prerogative. One comment in particular was about companies "leaving Americans high and dry". I said the comment sounded like the complaint of a disgruntled employee who thinks far too highly of himself/herself and has unrealistic expectations. Shortly afterwards you said:

You have obviously not read through my threads and posts. I left the work force 5 years ago because of the unethical practices in the 'corporate' world.

I was right! Your hostility against corporations comes from your own personal experience. I haven't read the specifics of your situation (though I'd like to) and I'm sure you have valid reasons. I would simply like to point out that not every corporation is like the one that did you wrong. Lumping them all into that category is generalizing and it is unfair. You stoke the class warfare flames and whip a lot of OWS-types into a frenzy. Going after corporations with pitchforks in hand isn't problem solving, it's seeking revenge. There are plenty of corporations that do right by their employees that are feeling the heat today because of this frenzy. Obama and his gang stoked these flames. This is a ploy designed to give the administration free reign to assert government further into the private sector. That will have negative affects on the market IMO. We need government to stay out of the private sector rather than further in bed with it.

Originally posted by seabag

Going after corporations with pitchforks in hand isn't problem solving, it's seeking revenge. There are plenty of corporations that do right by their employees that are feeling the heat today because of this frenzy. Obama and his gang stoked these flames. This is a ploy designed to give the administration free reign to assert government further into the private sector. That will have negative affects on the market IMO. We need government to stay out of the private sector rather than further in bed with it.

Blue collar crime is all that matters to americans. White collar crime is not prosecuted in america to any reasonable/respectable extent. Sure they go after an enron or microsoft every 20-30 years or so just to say "hey look we are trying" and then same #. What do people expect from elected officials involved in insider trading schemes and whom are immune from prosecution? It is called executive privilege, first they must be removed from office and then punished. Look at eric holder for example who is obstructing justice every chance he gets, but he is certainly not alone. The benghazi scandal involving hillary also stinks.

The market in america is doomed as long as outsourcing and automation is encouraged by wall street speculators, the federal reserve, the government, big business. etc. It is called unrestrained global capitalism. The heads of government are rotten to the core. They have been infiltrated a long time ago by evil rich people.

We can play the merry-go-round *blame game* all year, but the facts speak for themselves. Both tea party and occupy want justice but they want it in slightly different ways because they are looking at it from a different perspective. TP from the right(small government) and Occupy from the left(big government).

reply to post by seabag


While I understand your take on my views, it was not only me who had a bad experience with a global corp. My husband is an IT guy and he has been "laid off" several times due to outsourcing. I know there are decent corporations, and I believe I have acknowledged that.

More than 1,000 people died in Bangladesh. People all over the world are vitrually "enslaved" by mining, manufacturing, and other industrial giants.

My activism is aimed toward encouraging MORE of that ETHICAL behavior - I have also been screwed over by JPMorgan Chase, TWICE, and all of the people who lost their homes due to sketchy lending practices, as well as the people who lost their life savings in the 2008 crash, have plenty to be upset about.

I'm not an economist, nor do I live in poverty. I am highly educated, and had every reason to "expect" that my life would follow the 'generational' upward arc that started with my forbears coming here to escape tyranny, poverty, oppression, and destitution. It worked fine for my grandparents, my parents, and was a system that seemed balanced and rational, based on hard work, tenacity, and farsighted planning.

It all went to hell, and yes, I'm angry about that, and sad for my children. My husband is now working for a global firm that has a HUGE network of international offices, and is publicly traded. It has no people dying in sub-par factories in Third World countries - it employs people in Europe, China, India and other places, It treats them VERY well - we have health insurance, and it pays him enough that I have the luxury of NOT working for an exploitative firm....all that "good" publicly traded corporation stuff.

My dad died 3 years ago after a lifetime of hard work, and was a small business co-owner who also invested in the stock market. He earned enough that my mom is now comfortable as a widow, in a nice home that is paid for; he made sure all of us 3 kids got educations, and was very much part of the "system". That was when t worked, and NOW I see it NO LONGER WORKING for TOO MANY PEOPLE.

So yes, I know, it could seem a double standard, and it's ironic that I rail about "Wall Street" and the stock markets - when my life is going all right FOR NOW. I'm not speaking from a "victim" point of view, I'm speaking from a "global justice" point of view. I haven't lived the horror of poverty, hopelessness, hunger, illness and oppression. But I have been "lucky" in that regard, and I got my advanced degree AFTER spending several years working as a "para-educator" for kids K-12 with severe emotional and behavioral problems. Subsequently I went to work in the urban core at a community mental health center (which serve all comers regardless of their ability to pay), and spent several MORE years helping people.

I advocate for THEM, and my own now-grown children, and the future of this planet. I hope you can understand that.
I'm not lumping "all corporations" into my squawking - only the corrupt ones. Same with bankers. I use a small, local bank now, and am very happy with them. I boycott places that have unethical business practices, and I don't buy their products.

But lots of people DO buy those products, because they can't afford better quality products, more nutritious food, or locally produced goods. I'm fortunate that we are able to save some money, not live on credit, and make do with what we have.

MOST PEOPLE in the world do not have that luxury, and I work, daily, slowly and persistently toward trying to change that. Hold the people responsible accountable, no matter what position they hold in whatever organization, country, or bureaucracy.

It's really not that hard to comprehend.

reply to post by wildtimes


Is seabag an obama apologist? He seems to agree with Obama more than the ex-democrats we have on these boards.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I don't think so, he and I agree on several basic points - but we're still "getting better acquainted", so I can't answer that question.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I agree with your post. I think you summed it up well, especially the last paragraph:

We can play the merry-go-round *blame game* all year, but the facts speak for themselves. Both tea party and occupy want justice but they want it in slightly different ways because they are looking at it from a different perspective. TP from the right(small government) and Occupy from the left(big government).

Very accurate. It's too bad the 'bad actors' have effectively high jacked both movements (more so with OWS in my opinion). Regardless, Obama surely hasn't remotely lived up to his campaign rhetoric.

And HECK NO I'm not an Obama apologist. I would sooner run for POTUS myself before casting a vote for that dude!

I'm more of a Ross Perot, Herman Cain, Gary Johnson kind of voter.

reply to post by seabag

Gary Johnson kind of voter.

Gary Johnson was my choice as well, based on my beliefs - however, I knew he had no chance of winning, and I believed Obama and thought he was the better - more humanistic - choice over Romney.