The Mistakes of Christianity

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

(Correct me if I'm wrong)
Blind faith would be defined as belief without evidence...

Biblical faith is defined as "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen"

And I agree with the author of Romans that "... his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made...."

A2D

You have no conclusive evidence to state that the existence of these things can be attributed to him and only him. All you have is the ignorance of the Causality Sequence, the vast web of cause and effect that escapes your perception and understanding. And as always, in your ignorance, you default to the eternal: "Uh, God musta dun it."

You clearly don't know, so don't try to pretend you have any sort of answer. There's nothing wrong with admitting ignorance - it gives you a reason to work for your education.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Admit your own ignorance and arrogance then. To presume we know ANYTHING is the height of arrogance. However, we come to our individual conclusions based on the given circumstances....I don't bash yours....Why do you insist on telling people such as myself how "ignorant" we are for examining evidence and coming to conclusions.....Just accept the fact that not everyone sees things the way that you do...You're not superior to anyone. Sorry.

A2D

FYI The theory of evolution is as much a theory as the theory of gravity or the theory of relativity.

Sorry I was just skimming through and read one of the most common mistakes the creationists make when they speak about the theory of evolution. It just boggles my mind that they do not grasp this information I am certain that at one point or another they had to have been educated on this. However I do understand that there are some that are willfully ignorant on the subject and no amount of education will wake them up.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


WOW....



No idea how you can manage to twist things as so...

I said my belief system requires justification, or evidence, or reasons.....It does not however require PROOF, meaning it does not require evidence to support it as FACT. because being a BELIEF SYSTEM it cannot possibly be PROVEN FACT....they are intrinsically different....

Defintion of PROOF

Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.


Definition of EVIDENCE

an outward sign : indication


There are many types of evidences that aren't taken as PROOF...circumstantial EVIDENCE for one....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

I said my belief system requires justification, or evidence, or reasons.....It does not however require PROOF, meaning it does not require evidence to support it as FACT. because being a BELIEF SYSTEM it cannot possibly be PROVEN FACT....they are intrinsically different....

You see that, denizens of ATS? He said evidence. His belief system requires justification or EVIDENCE. Not proof, but evidence. Apparently, the two are distinct and separate. He said it, in his own words. So now, for my next trick:

1ev·i·dence
noun ˈe-və-dən(t)s, -və-ˌden(t)s
Definition of EVIDENCE
1
a : an outward sign : indication
b : something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

Tah-dah!

Now, are we done avoiding the necessity for proof? Because if your continual aversion indicates anything at all, it's that you don't have proof. Which means you don't have any substantial reason to believe, other than your willingness to - for reasons you have yet to explain. Bringing us back to faith. Which brings us back to your lack of expertise in cosmic powers and their relationships. Which brings us back to your "savior" and his failure to correct those who have apparently perverted his message. Which brings us back to loud idiots. Particular ones who have trouble supporting their claims with solid and reliable proof.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


LOL....so you're saying evidence is proof?

I doubt a court of law would agree with you on that one buddy...

A2D

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Congrats! You can read! Now if you develop an ability to think to go along with that, you may get it figured out. "Evidence" is not "proof" of anything, never has been, never will be. Evidence may lead to a conclusion, but proof obviates the necessity for thinking or reaching a conclusion at all - it already has been thought out for you. The two are not the same in any sort of sense, legal or otherwise.

Evidence is presented in court, but proof rarely is, if ever. With proof there is no need for trial or thinking, as the conclusion is already foregone.

How does it feel to constantly demand "proof" so that one never has to think?

reply to post by nenothtu


Precisely. Even more so, proof wouldn't even be considered a scientific term. Proof exists mathematically and logically...Here's why:

Mathematics and logic are both self contained, closed systems of propositions. Science is empirical and deals with nature. The primary criterion of scientific evaluation is evidence....not proof. Proofs are final and binary while on the contrary, scientific knowledge is TENTATIVE and PROVISIONAL....

A2D

reply to post by nenothtu


reply to post by Agree2Disagree


A2D is dodging the issue, and Nonothtu is only attempting to assist him - both based on semantics. A2D, you are refusing to substantiate your ability to make any credible claim regarding cosmic powers and their relationships. As such, you refuse to give me any reason to accept your claims that apparently, neither "God" nor Jesus bear any responsibility for the fallout of their actions and their subsequent inaction to correct the wayward course of their followers.

That's the point I am making here. There are idiots all over the world killing each other over beliefs that are, in themselves, perverse and inaccurate. These acts of cruelty would never have happened had Jesus or "God" descended from the heavens and attended to such conflicts in the interest of preventing bloodshed as a result of the "telephone game". They were the catalyst; we have carried that reaction forward, both introducing foreign elements and losing others with time; we are now in the midst of several global wars based upon who is right regarding the true ruling higher power. If anyone has the right and the obligation to illuminate the truth in these matters and prevent further chaos and destruction, it is your god and your savior.

If I take a gun out in the middle of the city, drop it on the ground with a note explaining its mechanisms and recommended purpose, then stand idly by as a bunch of children pick it up and shoot each other...am I responsible for that? If I had never put that gun there, they would have remained unharmed. But since I made the conscious decision to give them that opportunity, I am responsible for the ensuing damage, am I not? I would be called upon to account for my actions, correct? And I would be expected to accept my punishment for my poor judgment. And if I had any brains at all, I never would have left the gun for strangers to find anyway. I would have kept it safe until such a time as I could either safely dispose of it or found a suitably educated successor to receive it in their turn.

Even so, it's not an accurate analogy unless I also add that I created that entire city and every person in it, meaning that I know ahead of time exactly where that gun will go and who will use it and when and where and why. Because I planned it. So really, I have even more responsibility for what happens with that gun and how it is used, because I am aware of the crimes that may be committed with it and I am able to stop them.

Yet they have failed to do so. And your excuses have failed to exonerate them. Because, once again, you have failed to establish any sort of authority in the matter of cosmic powers and their relationships and duties. Are we clear now?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Interestingly enough, I NEVER dodged the question...it is clearly answered...here...

I did answer the question...My experience with "cosmic relationships" as you put it...versus your opinion that they do not exist....Clearly shows that if ANYONE is to have more knowledge...it'd be the one that actually believes in such things....

Logic.
A2D

(Disbelief shows zero experience in that area...belief can lead to the logical conclusion that the believer has experience in said area of belief.....)

Well gee, no one thought to say that perhaps a divine creator designed us to evolve?

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


Ah but they don't want to even consider that...they'd rather just say we evolved and take any possibility of Creator completely out of the equation.....Just ask them...ask them if that's a possibility.....

A2D

God using "evolution" in a way we may not have known is shown here:

"An Curious Case of Evolution in the Bible."

reply to post by allenidaho


Let me start this reponse with this - Christianity is an ADOPTION, so whatever its main foundation (a book, called the Bible or Blabble, lots of bs talk..) is, is just a rip off of earlier ideas, beleifs, observations, and upholdings in earlier civilizations.

Those civilizations are known as; Rome, which infiltrated Egypt, which had adoptions from earlier Sumeria.

One hint:

Christianities King = Jesus Christ

Roman King = Julius Ceaser

= JC, JC

"Those who win the wars, write the history books". Christianity was created by the Romans and later carried out by the United Kingdom > which ulimately expanded its Empire (Rome) to the west-lands, which is present day America/Canada. America was founded upon Christianity - but christianity IS and always HAS been a tool to control since the earlier empires.

Dont beleive? Dont worry about it, allow a BOOK (which you have NO idea who originally authored as it wasnt even in english at the time..) to govern your beleifs, ideas, path and overall life

reply to post by covertpanther


So you're stating...as fact mind you....that an empire that devoutly PERSECUTED anyone belonging to the Christian faith....actually STARTED that faith?

100% logic fail

A2D

reply to post by covertpanther

Christianities King = Jesus Christ

Roman King = Julius Ceaser

= JC, JC

Do you think that the Jews and Romans spoke English?

Jesus' name in Hebrew (aka his "real" name) is Yeshua. In Greek, the only other language he may have spoken, it was Iesous. Nary a "J" in sight, and you even spelled "Caesar" wrong, lol.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


I've already responded to that post. Belief doesn't inherently guarantee any sort of experience or knowledge. I believe the Earth exists. I am not, however, an expert on it. My point stands as made in my previous post.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

I've already responded to that post. Belief doesn't inherently guarantee any sort of experience or knowledge. I believe the Earth exists. I am not, however, an expert on it. My point stands as made in my previous post.

:facepalm:

First of all, I never said I was an expert...that was you putting words in my mouth. But thanks for the compliment.

Now, let's take a step back for a moment, I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves. I think our main problem here is one that epistemologic(?) in nature...and I think we probably need to clarify a few things before the water gets too muddied(if it isn't already)

So, with that in mind, I only have a few questions:

What constitutes "knowledge"?
How do we obtain "knowledge"?
Is "knowledge" even possible?
Can "knowledge" be certain?
Can "belief" be derived from "knowledge"?

A2D
(Sorry if it feels like I'm dodging the question, I most certainly am not. I just think that these things need to be clarified before moving on....)

(Also, we may want to think about starting a new thread or even U2U'ing this...I don't want to derail this thread in any way....)

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Then I invite you to start a thread. If you choose not to, and also choose to terminate this discussion, I will respect that. In closing however, I would like to point out that you are the one who claimed that your belief constitutes as knowledge, or serves as a precursor to such inevitable knowledge. This was in response to my questioning your credibility in making any sort of authoritative statement regarding cosmic powers and their responsibilities. If I misunderstood your claims, then I apologize.

reply to post by allenidaho


Um i hate to point this out but your not using the 10 commandments your using part of the covenant between the jews and god. Ummmm there two different things and i know this and im not a christian. So um might want to change your thread a bit. Here is the 10 commandments god gave to moses notice key word here as in handed to him on tablets.

I am the LORD thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet

PS next time you want to attack a religion might i suggest taking the time to read it first. heck ive read the bible and the quran.