The Mistakes of Christianity

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Then why spend so much time on him? Why not move away from him and fish for ourselves instead of eating from his hand? We are too dependent. We're not learning how to be strong, only how to cling to his skirt. We can be our own pillars if we learned how. So which is it - does he cling to us, or do we cling to him?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You're not taking things in perspective friend. When you look at the earthly relationship of parents to children...That's how it is...We don't cling to them for our entire lives...But we still love them and talk to them and ask them for advice because we value what they have to say....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


That's an interesting statement. You tell me I don't have the perspective to be right, yet apparently you have the perspective to tell me I'm wrong? You're not on the big screen or running the projector, you're sitting next to me. What makes you more knowledgeable than me in this matter? Your perspective is Ustinov as human as mine. You're just more willing to take it for granted, even when you don't know half the answers and only think you know the rest.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I love how you change the subject every time. I tell you that we're not clinging to the ideology of God but rather it's more like a parent/child relationship...and all of a sudden you want to attack my character and somehow come to the conclusion that I think I'm better than you.....Back to the actual discussion please?

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


That was on topic. You are apparently so knowledgeable in how cosmic relationships work, so I want to know how you know so much. What makes you any more of an expert than myself? This time, don't dodge the question with complaints of ad hominem attacks.

Double post.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

That was on topic. You are apparently so knowledgeable in how cosmic relationships work, so I want to know how you know so much. What makes you any more of an expert than myself? This time, don't dodge the question with complaints of ad hominem attacks.

For one - You don't even believe in "cosmic relationships". That effectively eliminates you from having any meaningful input in anything concerning them.....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


And your belief makes you the resident expert? Dodging, yet again! Answer the question please.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I did answer the question...My experience with "cosmic relationships" as you put it...versus your opinion that they do not exist....Clearly shows that if ANYONE is to have more knowledge...it'd be the one that actually believes in such things....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Belief, by its very definition, is not knowledge.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


And disbelief is not knowledge either..

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Disbelief is reason to believe otherwise. What evidence do you have that will give me due cause for believing in your expertise on cosmic powers and their relations? Prove to me that you have the faculties to critically examine your comprehension of these divine entities that you believe in.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I need not prove anything. I have a BELIEF...Beliefs need justification, not proof.

A2D

Blind faith is the very definition of indoctrination. There is no reasoning with them at that point. They become indoctrinated without even realizing it.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

That's an interesting statement. You tell me I don't have the perspective to be right, yet apparently you have the perspective to tell me I'm wrong? You're not on the big screen or running the projector, you're sitting next to me. What makes you more knowledgeable than me in this matter? Your perspective is Ustinov as human as mine. You're just more willing to take it for granted, even when you don't know half the answers and only think you know the rest.

ok, not to be rude or intrusive, but who are you to tell him he is wrong as if you have all the answers?

When someone can tell me where the proteins came from to make up the DNA/RNA information in the simple cell, and the membrane that prevents cell lysis without some fantasy reference to a magical big bang in the cosmos - then they would actually "know" some answers

reply to post by allenidaho


It's not blind faith....

(Correct me if I'm wrong)
Blind faith would be defined as belief without evidence...

Biblical faith is defined as "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen"

And I agree with the author of Romans that "... his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made...."

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

I need not prove anything. I have a BELIEF...Beliefs need justification, not proof.

Beliefs need justification, not proof, eh?

jus·ti·fy
verb ˈjəs-tə-ˌfī
jus·ti·fiedjus·ti·fy·ing

Definition of JUSTIFY

transitive verb

1a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable

b (1) : to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2) : to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property

www.merriam-webster.com...

To prove to be just, right, or reasonable. You should pick up a dictionary more often.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer

ok, not to be rude or intrusive, but who are you to tell him he is wrong as if you have all the answers?

Pfft. That's not an argument. When you have the answers, then you can take that approach. But it does get a little tiring when people continually act as though they know anything when in fact they have simply decided they don't need to know anything. These are not the same things. Belief is not a suitable replacement for knowledge, and indoctrination doesn't make up for lack of scientific investigation.

I can provide plenty of reasons to believe what I believe in, and they all exist independently of my will. Your reasons to believe depend upon your will to believe in them - without you, they are merely myths, ideals that one might study with clinical interest but never put any stock in. You are the justification for your beliefs. And you're not good enough because once your dead, there's no more reason to believe. And in that case, was it ever really justified to begin with if it depended upon your existence? Because it can then be argued that it was only real for you, which is classified as a delusion.

A dozen arguments can be made in this fashion. That's why faith is so important. "Hey y'all, you don't have any reason to believe in this, but if you do, there's this awesome gift of immortality waiting to assuage your guilt for living a pathetic and unproductive life, so just kiss this god's keister for as long as you live and you'll never die!"

What a laugh.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Maybe you can look up the word arrogance in that dictionary as well....

Justification and proof are not intrinsically the same...just because a dictionary uses the terms somewhat interchangeably doesn't mean they are..... especially in terms of belief systems....

Proving a belief system would make it "knowledge"....justifying a belief system would not make it knowledge, but is what we call a "justified belief".....In this case justification means only "evidence or reasons"...not "proof" so take your semantics and your dictionary and go back to school....

A2D

(There are loads and loads of scientific THEORIES that are JUSTIFIED beliefs....but yet they remain THEORIES...because they aren't PROVEN. Once they are proven they are then scientific FACTS and move from being a justified belief to KNOWLEDGE.)

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


I'm not playing the semantics game with you. Merriam-Webster has spoken, and vocabulary is their specialty. Justification, to you, means "belief without proof" - which, incidentally, is redundant unto itself:

I need not prove anything. I have a BELIEF...Beliefs need justification, not proof.

...But the dictionary strongly disagrees.

Definition of JUSTIFY

transitive verb

1a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable

So what you're saying here is that your beliefs require justification for believing without reason to believe. What's your justification for that, exactly?